Stuff that came out of the "UK Question" thread in General Discussion

[Madeleine]

[the_dark_light]

Well, Oka, that is a good reason for not getting involved with China. The government there is corrupt, they have a terrible human rights record. (Look at the damage caused by the "cultural revolution") Unfortunately, it's a matter of convenience. Look at the appalling reputation of Saudi Arabia, one of the most oppressive regimes on the planet. We still do business with them?

the man who sees absolutes where all others see nuances and shades of meaning is either a prophet or a quack.

[cowpants]

Oddly enough, China owns more stock in the US dollar than the US does. That's why I said what I did. And every country that is moderately successful has achieved this status off the oppression of others. Just China did it a little more.

I also question the term "bringing peace to" the planet. Bringing peace does not mean killing off those who disagree with you. Killing those who have an epistemologically different viewpoint of existence than your own is as low as anything can get. By your own argument, it's what China did. Killed millions to get where it is today? You want the US to kill millions to "bring peace to the world"? No difference.

Besides which, while different ideologies, religions, and epistemologies, exist, there would be no swift winning of war. It would still be just as much a quagmire as it is now. You'd just kill people more efficiently.

I see your point regarding the Stargate. I would think that Russia would still want to own one, but the US could acquire a new fairly quickly. But it wouldn't have the funky A as the PoO anymore. That would be sad.

America has shown to be responsible with the technology. Now why doesn't it give other nations the same benefit of the doubt which the rest of the world (unknowingly) gave them?

[jenks]

As I've said in this thread, before we can unite Earth we have to bring peace to this planet, and that means that people have to die. Using alien technology I have no doubt in my mind that will it will be a swift victory.

I feel sorry for you, I'm glad I don't have such a bleak outlook on life. The sad thing is, because of people like you, the US is probably the biggest threat to world peace on the planet.

[Teotl]

Interestingly, I'd like to point out that Oka's viewpoint is the 'stereotypical' ignorant American viewpoint. As in, to get back (slightly) to the original topic, that's what people in the UK believe is one of the most common American viewpoints

That's how some of us see some of you. And not just the UK, but pretty much the rest of the world.

When contrasting that viewpoint to the one actually seen in Stargate, you understand why we don't seem too fussed about it.

[Oka]

I feel sorry for you, I'm glad I don't have such a bleak outlook on life. The sad thing is, because of people like you, the US is probably the biggest threat to world peace on the planet.

I'm just recognizing the fact that we have enemies that we have to deal with. I'm not saying that we should conquer the world or anything like that. We're the biggest threat to world peace? We're only defending ourselves. Please take a look at the middle-east if you want a reason why there isn't peace.

Richest countries cowpants: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._GDP_%28PPP%29

[cowpants]

One: I never said richer. I said they hold more stock of the US dollar than the US does. If the US sold all its bonds, the US dollar would plummet, and would essentially collapse. China has had this hold over the US dollar for a number of years. I might be somewhat inaccurate here, it might be China and Japan put together hold more stock in the US dollar than the US does.

Two: I believe that there is a lot of unrest in the Middle East because of Western policies regarding that area. Sorry UK, but you royally mucked it up during your colonialism. Then it got even more mucked up later. Now, the Middle East want to get rid of the Foreign Interference in their affairs, causing the current situation.

As an example of this: Look at the term "Middle East". East of what? The UK, the US, those type of places. In a round world, there is no real East or West. It's our perceptions that make these terms. So they have always been classifies in relationship to us, and they want that to change. Creating the current situation.

Now I'm hungry. I'm going to go eat.

[boberth2o]

I
As I've said in this thread, before we can unite Earth we have to bring peace to this planet, and that means that people have to die. Using alien technology I have no doubt in my mind that will it will be a swift victory.

Why do people have to die to bring world peace?
People act out in aggression toward others when they are threatened. In studies on wild animal and it stated that when an animal is threatened by a predator it will turn aggressive toward tha attacking animal and attack it.
I told you that so I could tell you this. If the poeple of the world were to be safe from any harm coming upon them they will not be aggressive towards another. If poeple cannot agree and accept how other peple on this planet are there will not be any resolution in world hunger and world peace. One of my favorite quote is...acutally this is my favorite quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
People do not need to die for this to happen. If certain people must die it should be the ones that control the destiny of others and choose unwisely in there prospects.

[Oka]

Why do people have to die to bring world peace?
People act out in aggression toward others when they are threatened. In studies on wild animal and it stated that when an animal is threatened by a predator it will turn aggressive toward tha attacking animal and attack it.
I told you that so I could tell you this. If the poeple of the world were to be safe from any harm coming upon them they will not be aggressive towards another. If poeple cannot agree and accept how other peple on this planet are there will not be any resolution in world hunger and world peace. One of my favorite quote is...acutally this is my favorite quote, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke)
People do not need to die for this to happen. If certain people must die it should be the ones that control the destiny of others and choose unwisely in there prospects.

Yeah. Good men has to do something to take out the bad men. How many people have died in SG-1 over the years? How many servicemen have given their lives for the Stargate program? Alot. Who has been dying? Americans. I don't think anyone likes war or like it when people die but sometimes it's necessary.

[Oka]

One: I never said richer. I said they hold more stock of the US dollar than the US does. If the US sold all its bonds, the US dollar would plummet, and would essentially collapse. China has had this hold over the US dollar for a number of years. I might be somewhat inaccurate here, it might be China and Japan put together hold more stock in the US dollar than the US does.

Two: I believe that there is a lot of unrest in the Middle East because of Western policies regarding that area. Sorry UK, but you royally mucked it up during your colonialism. Then it got even more mucked up later. Now, the Middle East want to get rid of the Foreign Interference in their affairs, causing the current situation.

As an example of this: Look at the term "Middle East". East of what? The UK, the US, those type of places. In a round world, there is no real East or West. It's our perceptions that make these terms. So they have always been classifies in relationship to us, and they want that to change. Creating the current situation.

Now I'm hungry. I'm going to go eat.

China does not control the U.S. dollar.

Yes, let's blame the west for the middle-east and let the radical Muslims off the hook, give me a break. They're responsible for their actions.

[boberth2o]

Yeah. Good men has to do something to take out the bad men. How many people have died in SG-1 over the years? How many servicemen have given their lives for the Stargate program? Alot. Who has been dying? Americans. I don't think anyone likes war or like it when people die but sometimes it's necessary.

Im talking about our world not the SGC and the Americas

Edit: whats EXPAT? Expatriate?

[cowpants]

China does not control the U.S. dollar.

Yes, let's blame the west for the middle-east and let the radical Muslims off the hook, give me a break. They're responsible for their actions.

Lets agree to disagree on the dollar thing, shall we? It's irrelevant to the discussion anyways.

Have you ever wondered why there are radical Muslims? Only at times when there is a need for something to be done about a fundamentally flawed situation does radicalism take root.

This one will get me in serious trouble. Look at other "terrorists" over the course of history. Luke Skywalker. Henry III (Hope that's the right one. The one who overthrew King Richard). George Washington. Geez, even Jack O'Neill could be considered a terrorist for threatening a US senator with a gun to accomplish something.

What I'm saying here is that all the above people did what they did because they were in a situation where their society was not good. Look what the Empire was doing to the people, and you will see a cause for the Rebels (there's a reason they were called that). Henry saw a problem with the Kingship in Britain, and set out to change this. George Washington was discontent with the governance that Britain has over the thirteen colonies, so he created a new nation. There was a reason for all of these uprisings. What makes one think that there is not a reason for the radicalism in Islamic nations?

[Oka]

Lets agree to disagree on the dollar thing, shall we? It's irrelevant to the discussion anyways.

Have you ever wondered why there are radical Muslims? Only at times when there is a need for something to be done about a fundamentally flawed situation does radicalism take root.

This one will get me in serious trouble. Look at other "terrorists" over the course of history. Luke Skywalker. Henry III (Hope that's the right one. The one who overthrew King Richard). George Washington. Geez, even Jack O'Neill could be considered a terrorist for threatening a US senator with a gun to accomplish something.

What I'm saying here is that all the above people did what they did because they were in a situation where their society was not good. Look what the Empire was doing to the people, and you will see a cause for the Rebels (there's a reason they were called that). Henry saw a problem with the Kingship in Britain, and set out to change this. George Washington was discontent with the governance that Britain has over the thirteen colonies, so he created a new nation. There was a reason for all of these uprisings. What makes one think that there is not a reason for the radicalism in Islamic nations?

No, the Palestinians are not the same thing as the Rebel Alliance.

Fighting tyranny and intentionally bombing and murdering people because of religious reasons isn't the same, and it isn't right. I don't care what their "reason" is. I'm sorry if you don't recognize that. You seem to have a very romantic view of radical islamism that I don't share. Are you telling me that the rich Saudi's of al-qaida have to bomb innocent people? Do you know why they're doing it? To rid the world of infidels, to get the west out of the middle-east, their ultimate goal is to create the Calpihate. Is that a good reason to bomb people? Let's not romanticize their actions, please.

America of the 1770's and the Middle-East of today are different scenarios, just because one uprising was right doesn't mean the other is. You have to look at the reasons behind it and the methods used.

Just because they think they have a reason for what they do doesn't mean it's right. It doesn't mean that people should defend it. What they're doing isn't justifiable.

I'm sick of "root cause" arguments where people are absolved of all responsibility. Blaming the West for all your problems isn't going to help you.

[cowpants]

You seem to make one assumption which I must question, as it is my purpose in life to make everybody question everything until they get so sick of me that they feed me to chickens.

Your assumption is this. Who says that the "west" is right? What if the creation of a Caliphate is the greatest thing that could ever happen in the world? What makes this "wrong"?

You may be sick of people questioning root causes. Fair enough. I'm sick of people who listen to the propaganda of the media and the governments and believe, without question, what their President, Prime Minister, etc. says without question.

I don't believe what the Radical Islamic forces are doing is beneficial to any degree. Nor do I believe the same about what the "western" nations are doing is response to this is beneficial or effective to any degree.

Yes, I may have a romantic view of Islam. Why? Because it is one of the greatest religions and societies the world has ever seen. Recent years have been poor to Islam, but I still see it at the forefront of religious piety, scientific investigations, women's rights, and overall do-gooding. I see it as a shame that all these have been slammed down, not just by other societies in the world but by some Islamic elements itself. What has happened to Islam is a shame.

You seem to have a "one way, only way" view of the world which I do not share. While applaud your desire to get things done quickly and with efficiently, I question who or what forces define your world.

[boberth2o]

You seem to make one assumption which I must question, as it is my purpose in life to make everybody question everything until they get so sick of me that they feed me to chickens.

Your assumption is this. Who says that the "west" is right? What if the creation of a Caliphate is the greatest thing that could ever happen in the world? What makes this "wrong"?

You may be sick of people questioning root causes. Fair enough. I'm sick of people who listen to the propaganda of the media and the governments and believe, without question, what their President, Prime Minister, etc. says without question.

I don't believe what the Radical Islamic forces are doing is beneficial to any degree. Nor do I believe the same about what the "western" nations are doing is response to this is beneficial or effective to any degree.

Yes, I may have a romantic view of Islam. Why? Because it is one of the greatest religions and societies the world has ever seen. Recent years have been poor to Islam, but I still see it at the forefront of religious piety, scientific investigations, women's rights, and overall do-gooding. I see it as a shame that all these have been slammed down, not just by other societies in the world but by some Islamic elements itself. What has happened to Islam is a shame.

You seem to have a "one way, only way" view of the world which I do not share. While applaud your desire to get things done quickly and with efficiently, I question who or what forces define your world.

Cheers!