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View Full Version : Use the Tok'ra Spoilers Against the Super Soldiers?



Lord You
June 9th, 2004, 07:28 AM
While watching Summit and Last Stand last night on Sci-fi, I figured out a perfect way to kill Anubis's Super Soldiers. They have a Gou'old symbiont, so why not use the Tok'ra poison against them? Darts can still pass through the suit, after all.

earck
June 9th, 2004, 07:34 AM
My question would be, do the Tok'ra still have the formula for it??? The crystal containing the formula was destroyed and only a few Tok'ra remain. It is entirly possible that the remaining Tok'ra had no knowledge on the actual formula itself. I.E. the creators are dead and we don't know how they made it.

Lord You
June 9th, 2004, 07:48 AM
do the Tok'ra still have the formula for it??? The crystal containing the formula was destroyed and only a few Tok'ra remain. Carter recovered the crystal from Ren Al before leaving with Lantash/Elliot. Where did you hear it was destroyed?

SaberBlade
June 9th, 2004, 07:49 AM
i don't think they could use the virus. wouldn't there be a possibility of it spreading? if the virus didn't die when the super soldier dies, then it could be a major problem for any jaffa or tok'ra to walk by

i also think the formula is still around. if i remember right, the formula, or even the entire tokra database was downloaded to a crystal which Carter then took from Ren'al when she died. (i think it was Ren'al). unless Carter decided to keep it a secret from the Tok'ra, they should still have it because i don't remember it being damaged or destroyed when Carter took it.

Lord You
June 9th, 2004, 07:56 AM
i don't think they could use the virus. It was poison and not a virus. Besides, if Teal'c and Carter/Selmak could safely return to the gate after releasing the poision in Last Stand, then other Tok'ra should be able to. Esp. if the poison was delivered from injection rather than inhalation.

Anubis
June 9th, 2004, 08:14 AM
SG-1 tried using darts before, but it just stays on the armour without any damage. It is basically impossible to eliminate one of the soldiers without the weapon SG-1 has. For example, it takes one soldier ten minutes to pass out when life support is disabled in a room

Elwe Singollo
June 9th, 2004, 08:48 AM
SG-1 tried using darts before, but it just stays on the armour without any damage. It is basically impossible to eliminate one of the soldiers without the weapon SG-1 has. For example, it takes one soldier ten minutes to pass out when life support is disabled in a roomDo any other race other than Tau'ri have the weapon? I wasn't clear on that.

Anubis
June 9th, 2004, 08:54 AM
As far as I know, only Earth has the weapon against the super soldiers

Elwe Singollo
June 9th, 2004, 08:56 AM
So, does that make us special? Haha.. It better ;)

Mr Prophet
June 9th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Presumably the Tok'ra alos have access to the design, since they helped us build the weapon.

I thought that the dart penetrated but the knock-out drops didn't work? The big problem with using the poison would be that it might not work either, since they're still impregnated with the healing energies of Telchak's device.

Anubis
June 9th, 2004, 09:04 AM
The Tok'ra probably have access yes, but they just haven't used it yet, or they're sissys and are scared to! :D

SGSlugger
June 9th, 2004, 10:55 AM
Presumably the Tok'ra alos have access to the design, since they helped us build the weapon.

I thought that the dart penetrated but the knock-out drops didn't work? The big problem with using the poison would be that it might not work either, since they're still impregnated with the healing energies of Telchak's device.

Yeah, the dart penetrated the armor in the SGC testing lab, but when Carter hit it in battle, it just pulled the dart out and kept on walking.

Anubis
June 9th, 2004, 11:01 AM
Exactly. Without the weapon, the super soldier cannot be destroyed, well I don't think so

Torley
June 9th, 2004, 11:08 AM
The Tok'ra are sadly ineffectual, having earned the DIStrust of SG-1 and pulling off so many failed schemes, it's a shame. They could stand to have more of a solid partnership like SG-1 does with the Asgard.

Mr Prophet
June 9th, 2004, 11:22 AM
Well, the weapon doesn't actually harm the super-soldiers at all, does it. The idea is that it just neutralises the energy which keeps the impossible host body from collapsing like a bunch of broccolli.

earck
June 10th, 2004, 05:12 AM
Carter recovered the crystal from Ren Al before leaving with Lantash/Elliot. Where did you hear it was destroyed?
I guess I always assumed it was implied, but maybe we still have it. But if we had it, you know the Pentagon would be trying to mass produce it, not only as a defensive weapon where we can release it immediatly if the gate is breached and as an offensive weapon on Gould ships.

earck
June 10th, 2004, 05:14 AM
It was poison and not a virus. Besides, if Teal'c and Carter/Selmak could safely return to the gate after releasing the poision in Last Stand, then other Tok'ra should be able to. Esp. if the poison was delivered from injection rather than inhalation.
Excepth that it is inhalation, that is the only way Daniel would have been able to kill all the system lords in Summit. He was going to press the button releasing the toxin into the air.

Lord You
June 10th, 2004, 08:41 AM
Excepth that it is inhalation, that is the only way Daniel would have been able to kill all the system lords in Summit. He was going to press the button releasing the toxin into the air.
It doesn't make sense that a poison, which only harms the symbiont and not the host, must be breathed in to work. Injection would work too.

Mr Prophet
June 10th, 2004, 09:06 AM
Sure it makes sense. Why would you create a weapon like that if you still had to fight, bluff or sneak your way past a System Lord's guards to use it?

Lord You
June 10th, 2004, 09:30 PM
Sure it makes sense. Why would you create a weapon like that if you still had to fight, bluff or sneak your way past a System Lord's guards to use it?
I do not follow: Why that is relevant to the effectiveness transmitting the poison intravenously (by a dart) verses breathing it in? The Tok'ra had to sneak the poison in since they needed to wait for all the System Lords to arrive. It was a matter of strategy - not the limitations of the poison.

I reiterate the fact that any poison, which is transmitted to the target via inhalation, must also work by intravenous injection. This fact must hold especially for this poison as it doesn't harm the host. Remember that the only method of transmission to the implanted Gou'old is through the host's bloodstream.

I don't understand why the physics of the poison is being debated. Granted, the super soldiers may have immunity due to Ancient healing rays or whatever they're called. ;-) However, the method of delivery shouldn't matter.

(BTW, this thread is straying off topic.)

Mr Prophet
June 11th, 2004, 12:15 AM
An inhaled poison can be released into the air supply of a ship or station; you don't need to get to the System Lord's person to use it. If you made it an injection toxin you would have to get close enough that you might as well just shoot the guy.

As for why this is being discussed, you were the one who suggested that an injected toxin would be as effective. I argue that it would not be; not from the Tok'ra perspective; they want to kill lots of symbiotes for minimum risk, nt surreptitiously off a dissident with a poison-tipped umbrella.

Lord You
June 11th, 2004, 09:31 AM
I understand why the poison was released into the air in Sumit and Last Stand. I wasn't debating that.

The situation is different with the supersoldiers, and I proposed using the same weapon in a different way. Since the soldiers have masks on (and they can hold their breath for a long time), it would probably be more effective as a dart form for against them. Carter's darts successfully delivered her tranquilizer; however, the soldier was immune to it. Perhaps the Tok'ra poison would be more effective.

Mr Prophet
June 11th, 2004, 09:37 AM
The tranquiliser though was presumably the Goa'uld specific one developed from the stasis fluid in the Osiris Jar; a Goa'uld killing poison might well not work either. Given that we have a functioning weapon, there seems little mileage in testing one that might well not work.

Jafana
June 11th, 2004, 08:34 PM
The tranquiliser though was presumably the Goa'uld specific one developed from the stasis fluid in the Osiris Jar; a Goa'uld killing poison might well not work either. Given that we have a functioning weapon, there seems little mileage in testing one that might well not work.


but if you used the weapon as backup, you could still test another weapon's (the poison's) usefullness. wouldnt you want to have more than one effective weapon if you could?

Lord You
June 11th, 2004, 09:45 PM
That's a good idea. Perhaps a bomb or something that can be deployed from someone besides the infantry.

Mr Prophet
June 12th, 2004, 12:30 AM
I'm just not sure how you'd go about testing it. Would you really want to shoot a super-soldier with a poison dart then give it a few minutes to see if it worked?

I suppose they could capture one, but that's fraught enough.

Anubis
June 12th, 2004, 01:53 AM
I think if you wanted to catch a soldier, you'd have to be very quick and sharp. Hanging about could get yourself killed, easily

Mio
June 12th, 2004, 07:12 PM
SG-1 tried using darts before, but it just stays on the armour without any damage. It is basically impossible to eliminate one of the soldiers without the weapon SG-1 has. For example, it takes one soldier ten minutes to pass out when life support is disabled in a room

A fine tipped trinium dart will pass through the armor...it's probably just that the engineered host was very strong and able to overcome the tranqulizer itself.

Anubis
June 13th, 2004, 01:09 AM
Yes, a trinium dart did go through the shield, but it had no effect. Then they used all the C4 and explosives. I think I'm going to be a super soldier