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Gladius77
May 21st, 2005, 01:24 PM
1. What is the logic behind the iris on the stargate? Why doesn't the burst when the gate opens make a hole through the gate (considering it destroys anything else)?

2. I've just seen the S2 ep with Jack visiting the alien planet to get rid of all the extra knowledge... and the team with Sam on another planet supposedly couldn't get back, because they couldn't dial home... but the gate on Earth could make contact with them, and send things through to them... I must be missing something. Doesn't transit go both ways, as long as the gate is open? I.e., couldn't you go through the gate, and quickly turn back on the other side, and go back through? If not, why not? I mean, the gates connect two points in space, and once the corridor is open, it shouldn't matter which way someone comes in or out.

Actually, I now remember a bit earlier episode with that Nox woman coming through the gate, then asking those refugees to come along, and then they all want right back through the gate. With it still being open. So... ???

TIA for any answers...

_Owen_
May 21st, 2005, 01:43 PM
The reason the iris isn't disintigrated is because the energy discharge that you are refering to, the vortex, is materialized from and by the event horizon, the iris is so close to the event horizon that no matter has room to rematerialize.

No the gate does not transmit matter two way, a wormhole by itself does, but the stargate doesn't allow this. The de materializes matter at the event horizon, and then rematerializes it at the second event horizon (it is converted into energy) energy does not need to be dematerialized, so it can travel both ways, ex. a radio signal. In the episode with the Tollan, the Nox woman, I can't remember her name, comes through the gate, and then it shuts down. She then uses, some sort of technology or natural mind power, to reactivate the gate from the SGCs' side.

I hope I could help

Owen Macri

Gladius77
May 21st, 2005, 02:38 PM
Hm, I'm not sure I understand what exactly the vortex is supposed to be, and why does it appear. Can you explain?

As for the second point, ah, you're right... that makes sense now, thanks.

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 02:55 PM
The reason the iris isn't disintigrated is because the energy discharge that you are refering to, the vortex, is materialized from and by the event horizon, the iris is so close to the event horizon that no matter has room to rematerialize.
Owen Macri
But i thought that the side flush is the event horizon (just unstable)

SeaBee
May 21st, 2005, 03:17 PM
But i thought that the side flush is the event horizon (just unstable)

I have always thought that it was a matter/energy wake, rather than the horizon itself, propogated beyond the normal confines of the gate by the creation of the wormhole.

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 03:23 PM
hey that makes sense

6thMonolith
May 21st, 2005, 08:50 PM
In my oppinion, the kawoosh effect is just how an event horizon is formed. Its also a nice security precaution, because if it didn't form and someone stepped through, they'd probably be fused with anything that was near the gate.

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 08:53 PM
I still don't know exactlly why the side flush doesn't put a big hole in the iris

6thMonolith
May 21st, 2005, 08:56 PM
It doesn't break the iris, for the iris is too close to the center of the 'gate for anything to form, even the kawoosh.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/i/iris.shtml

Col. Newman
May 21st, 2005, 09:14 PM
but the Kawoosh as u call it is the event horizon not matter

6thMonolith
May 21st, 2005, 09:23 PM
When the seventh chevron locks, an unstable energy vortex emerges from the gate, incinerating everything in its wake

It still emerges from the gate, and the iris, only a few micrometers away, prevents it from forming. It prevents anything from forming.

Star_Lord
May 22nd, 2005, 01:38 AM
This still doesn't make sense. The Kawoosh is pure energy and even 3 micrometres is enough space for energy to fill.

Gladius77
May 22nd, 2005, 07:33 AM
Yes, unfortunately, none of the explanations here make sense (and there's nothing in the omnipedia touching upon this). The burst when the stargate is opened is, as far as I can tell, integral to establishing the event horizon. I also don't know why the burst is rectracted, "filling out" into the event horizon. Actually, as I said, I don't even know why the burst occurs in the first place, and how is it controlled that it always retracts.

The iris barring anything from coming through doesn't really make sense either. As long as something is able of making contact with the iris, something big of powerful enough should be able to make a hole through it. What exactly happens when you hear a "thud" of someone/something splashing against the iris? Where does the matter that hits the iris go? Considering the concept of gate tunnels only going one way, it can't go back. And it doesn't go through the iris either. So where DOES it go?

More and more I think about it, the more it seems to me that there really is no sense behind all this. Stargate as a series is full of things which make no sense whatsoever, but the iris keeps coming up and bothers me the most. You'd also think that every bloody planet with any intelligence on it would have some sort of protection on the gate, but no, pretty much all of them have the gates wide open for anything or anyone to come through. They're not even guarded. It's crap like that really breaks the immersion for me.

Hudson
May 22nd, 2005, 07:44 AM
Yes, unfortunately, none of the explanations here make sense (and there's nothing in the omnipedia touching upon this). The burst when the stargate is opened is, as far as I can tell, integral to establishing the event horizon. I also don't know why the burst is rectracted, "filling out" into the event horizon. Actually, as I said, I don't even know why the burst occurs in the first place, and how is it controlled that it always retracts.


In "1969", they go forward in time. the person they run into uses a device to open the gate, and there is no unstable vortex (the offical term for "kawoosh" :D )

i dont know why it happens, but i know it was a side effect or something. sorta like exhaust fumes from an engine

Freyrs
May 22nd, 2005, 07:57 AM
In "1969", they go forward in time. the person they run into uses a device to open the gate, and there is no unstable vortex (the offical term for "kawoosh" )

So do the Asgard and the Nox. Obviously the Kawoosh isn't technically required for the wormhole to form and is probally some sort of safeguard the ancients added in to prevent to keep matter from going through the at the wrong time.

Hudson
May 22nd, 2005, 07:58 AM
So do the Asgard and the Nox. Obviously the Kawoosh isn't technically required for the wormhole to form and is probally some sort of safeguard the ancients added in to prevent to keep matter from going through the at the wrong time.

bit of a nasty safegaurd tho...

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 10:27 AM
What exactly happens when you hear a "thud" of someone/something splashing against the iris? Where does the matter that hits the iris go? Considering the concept of gate tunnels only going one way, it can't go back. And it doesn't go through the iris either. So where DOES it go?
That's easy to answer if it is still in the worm hole when the gate shuts down then it just cease to exist, at least in our dimension

Gladius77
May 22nd, 2005, 11:46 AM
It can't still be in the wormhole if it makes a thud on the iris, considering the iris is set outside the wormhole.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 11:49 AM
It can't still be in the wormhole if it makes a thud on the iris, considering the iris is set outside the wormhole.well like 99.99999999% of it is

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 12:29 PM
Do you mean that it bounces back into the event horizon? That would make sense.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 12:37 PM
Do you mean that it bounces back into the event horizon? That would make sense.no, most of it can't come out of the event horizon because there is only 3 micro meters of space between the iris and the event Horizon

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 01:10 PM
Yes, but the thud might come from the few molecular particals that form, and would bounce right back into the event horizon. Things still 'impact' the iris.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/i/iris.shtml

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 01:19 PM
Yes, but the thud might come from the few molecular particals that form, and would bounce right back into the event horizon. Things still 'impact' the iris.
http://www.gateworld.net/omnipedia/technology/i/iris.shtmlYes i know things still impact the iris and you are right, i thought you meant the whole object comes out and bounces back, sorry my bad

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 01:28 PM
Who's to say that they dont? The whole object probably rematerializes in molecular layers, that bounce back, until the entire object is gone.

Gladius77
May 22nd, 2005, 02:17 PM
You wouldn't hear a thud if only a minute amount of matter actually hit the iris. The only logic here might be that whatever forms before the iris would have to fill out in the micrometers of space between the iris and the event horizon, but this would mean that since there wouldn't be nearly enough space for the matter that went in to materialize on the other end, that the iris would have to burst to let it through. That's the only logical explanation that I can see. But this brings us back to the whole concept of the iris being impossible.

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 02:36 PM
You don't know how the ancients design the star gate and what features they put in it maybe that the gate doesn’t kept reintegrating matter if there is an iris on it; also the Atlantis gate has a shield, and the iris would not burst it might expand a little but not burst

Gladius77
May 22nd, 2005, 02:58 PM
The iris isn't part of any design for the gate, so it'd be a far stretch to assume that SGC found an "undocumented feature" which would just happen to work (though logically it shouldn't). And unless the metal used to make the iris had the properties which would allow it to bend (just the opposite is indicated), the fixtures that hold it in place would logically give way before the iris itself expanded. The end result would be the same anyway; the iris wouldn't hold. The whole iris as it is presented is impossible anyway; it expands from literally nothing to cover the whole circle. But this is another issue altogether, heh.

6thMonolith
May 22nd, 2005, 03:20 PM
The matter wouldn't fill up the space between the iris and the event horizon, it would just bounce off the iris. The matter is moving foreward; it wouldn't just stop. As for the iris coming out of nowhere, it has a space between the outer and inner ring, and is made of interlapping parts. But it is a TV show.

PS welcome to the forum, gladius77!

Gladius77
May 22nd, 2005, 04:29 PM
Bounce off the iris and end up... where? That's the issue here. ;)

And thanks for the welcome. :D

Col. Newman
May 22nd, 2005, 05:23 PM
Bounce off the iris and end up... where? That's the issue here. ;)

And thanks for the welcome. :DIt would go back through the event horizon and then cease to exists

Gladius77
May 23rd, 2005, 02:51 AM
I thought we've established that since gates only go one way, nothing can go the other way (which would be the case here...).

Seastallion
May 23rd, 2005, 05:09 AM
The iris isn't part of any design for the gate, so it'd be a far stretch to assume that SGC found an "undocumented feature" which would just happen to work (though logically it shouldn't). And unless the metal used to make the iris had the properties which would allow it to bend (just the opposite is indicated), the fixtures that hold it in place would logically give way before the iris itself expanded. The end result would be the same anyway; the iris wouldn't hold. The whole iris as it is presented is impossible anyway; it expands from literally nothing to cover the whole circle. But this is another issue altogether, heh.

Are you forgetting the Atlantis Stargate? It has a shield, which does the same exact job as the Iris on Earth. Also, several Goa'uld have had shielded stargates. We know that Apophis did, at least once. Sokar managed to defeat his shield the same way Sokar defeated the Iris. We also know that Anubis had the Stargate on his primary base planet shielded as well. The Iris isn't a new idea at all... just a slightly less technically advanced version.

As I understand it, the vortex isn't necessary but will occur when there is sufficient space for it to do so. We know that the stargate on "100 Days" was able to open a wormhole without a vortex, because the molten rock hardened just above the event horizon. There seems to be spacial factor involved with the creation of the vortex. It is possible to stick your arm into the event horizon and withdraw it and you'll be fine. The event horizon isn't always dangerous, it is only in the unstable vortex that it becomes lethal. If there isn't enough space, the event horizon simply forms along the inner rim of the gate. If the gate is completely buried (i.e.-the space where the event horizon would normally be is covered up), the wormhole won't connect.

In any case, the vortex (while dangerous) can be useful. We saw how again in "100 Days", after they used a particle beam to melt a small space above the event horizon. They then reactivated the gate, and the vortex having enough space to form pushed further into the hole creating a cavity that was then used to unbury the gate on the otherside. The event horizon only becomes dangerous in its unstable vortex form, but the vortex will not occur if there isn't enough space for it do so. It will simply expand outwards until it is attached to the inner rim of the gate, becoming stable without the vortex. When the space in front of the event horizon is free and open the vortex forms likely because it is like a grappling hook. The wormhole 'threads the needle', expands then pulls back locked onto the gate. |---> then |---<, and finally |-|. I'm sure people have seen grappling hooks that fly towards their targets, then expands upon impact locking the hook into place. It is a similiar priniciple with the vortex and the gate. If there isn't any space to expand into however, then the event horizon just expands outwards to the inner rim of the gate, once again establishing a lock anyways.

As to why something doesn't come all the way through the Iris. That is rather simple. An extremely small part of it does, but not nearly enough of it to do too much damage, to an Iris composed of Titanium and Trinium. It would be like trying to run through a wall, you might leave behind a little blood, but you won't get through. The SGC has been able to identify the objects impacting the Iris as organic, and even a specific radioactive signature. So, extremely small parts of the objects do in fact materialize... just not enough to cause damage. Too little mass, and not enough velocity. In the case of the wormhole, microscopic particles do get through, but the rest is simply lost in transit as unreconstituted matter (atoms) particles floating around in space. We know for a fact that matter can interact with normal space while in transit through a wormhole. We saw it when a wormhole passed through a star, causing it to redshift as a result of interacting with the wormhole and nearly killed the inhabitants of that world. Fortunately the Asgard secretly were able to repair the damage.

Anyways, maybe this will help. :)

Gladius77
May 23rd, 2005, 09:40 AM
I've never seen Atlantis, and since it's a separate show, I don't think it should apply backwards to SG-1. I've also only seen the first two seasons of SG-1, so I'm basing my conclusions based on what I've seen thus far. I guess some of this stuff becomes clearer later on (or even less clear, hehe).

The vortex not forming when there isn't enough space around it doesn't make sense to me... I mean, isn't the whole point of the vortex forming to clear the way in front of the stargate? Which would make pretty much its entire purpose to clear blocked space in front of the gate. I guess your "grappling hook" theory would work, but if the event horizon forms regardless of it, why bother having it at all? Obviously not to have it clear the way in front of the stargate, when this can be easily disabled by something like an iris.

As for your last explanation, yea, that'd work, but we're back to the heavy thuds you hear of matter splattering against the iris. With your theory, so little matter would form that NOTHING should be heard impacting the iris. Certainly not thuds sounding as heavy as if whole people were splaterring against it. I guess you could put this down to being done for dramatic effect, but I don't see the point, considering it's a big irregularity.

Perriman33
May 23rd, 2005, 11:28 AM
Ive just seen the film again, after so many years. They have two anubis guards quite clearly splattered on the stone cover, that the egyptians put up. As far as i could make out the stone was flush with the gate, so nothing should have formed. Just thought I'd mention it.

Hudson
May 23rd, 2005, 12:14 PM
Ive just seen the film again, after so many years. They have two anubis guards quite clearly splattered on the stone cover, that the egyptians put up. As far as i could make out the stone was flush with the gate, so nothing should have formed. Just thought I'd mention it.

erm, you sure that isnt an engraving?

Col. Newman
May 23rd, 2005, 12:38 PM
I thought we've established that since gates only go one way, nothing can go the other way (which would be the case here...).The Matter would go back in the event horizon but it wouldn't come out the other side,its not like there is a shield on every signal gate so that things can only enter on 1 side of the worm hole

6thMonolith
May 23rd, 2005, 03:01 PM
I thought we've established that since gates only go one way, nothing can go the other way (which would be the case here...).

In A hundred days, the 'gate is facing upward. When the MALP was sent through, it fell back through the gate backwards. It was just destroyed, and the episode didn't go into any more detail. Gate travel is one way, but matter entering an event horizon is not.

_Owen_
May 23rd, 2005, 04:07 PM
I'm sorry to nitpick, I usually try not to mention it, but please do not refer to the horizontal emission from the stargate at the time of activation and creation of the wormhole, as the "Kawoosh." It is called a Vortex, in the show it was given a name, please use it. I appoligize for nitpicking.

As far I can tell, some people still don't understand, if I have missed a post, I appoligize, I didn't read them all.

The reason the vortex does not destroy the iris, is because like any matter traveling through the stargate it is created by the event horizon, the only plausible way for it to not vaporise the iris is for it to not have enough room to materialize, there is no other possibility, if you think you have found one please by all means post I would be interested to see what you have come up with.

Owen Macri

Gladius77
May 24th, 2005, 04:26 AM
In A hundred days, the 'gate is facing upward. When the MALP was sent through, it fell back through the gate backwards. It was just destroyed, and the episode didn't go into any more detail. Gate travel is one way, but matter entering an event horizon is not.

Aaah, now that's something else entirely. Thanks for the explanation.

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 05:06 AM
I've never seen Atlantis, and since it's a separate show, I don't think it should apply backwards to SG-1. I've also only seen the first two seasons of SG-1, so I'm basing my conclusions based on what I've seen thus far. I guess some of this stuff becomes clearer later on (or even less clear, hehe).

My friend... I truly feel bad for you. However, you are in no shape to be concluding anything if you've only seen 2 seasons. There are 8 whole seasons, plus a ninth on the way. Also, Atlantis is NOT a seperate show, it is an extension of Sg1. It is the same universe, where the same rules apply. The same people are making both shows, so of course anything seen on Atlantis should apply backwards to SG-1. Heck, not to throw a spoiler in your face, but after Atlantis was started with their Puddlejumpers... guess what? Last season SG-1 got a Puddlejumper..! :eek: Why? Because both shows are part of the same universe (i.e.- NOT seperate shows), and in both shows the Ancients built Puddlejumpers. Atlantis was first mentioned on SG-1, and then a new show was created to exploit the story possibilities of the Lost city of Ancients. The shows aren't two entirely seperate entities, rather they are part of each other. They simply tell two different stories within the same exact universe. Whatever applies to one, at least in some way applies to the other. The Dadealus was first mentioned on SG-1, and now it is going to Atlantis. SG-1 found a ZPM on Earth, and now they are sending it to Atlantis. The shows are undeniably connected.

That's just my take on it. :)

Gladius77
May 24th, 2005, 07:16 AM
Heh, well, when a technology is being used from practically day one and there's no sensible explanation for it by the end of season 2, something's amiss. Not to mention that even all the theories presented here are just that, no one has any definite answers.

Atlantis is an extension of SG-1, exactly. Considering that SG-1 has been going on for 10 years, you can't seriously expect me to have to go looking to an extension of this show to make some sense of the iris, which has been present in SG-1 right from the beginning. That's my point. I shouldn't have to go see Atlantis for something in SG-1 to make sense.

I know well enough that there's a strong connection between SG-1 and Atlantis, but that's not my point.

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 07:57 AM
If your only being specific to the Iris, then no. Your right. Atlantis doesn't have a metallic Iris, but it does have an energy shield that does the exact same job. The event horizon forms within the shield without the vortex, just as it does with the Iris in place on Sg1. The event horizon itself isn't harmful, it is only the unstable vortex that is lethal. Once it has stabilized it is virtually harmless. You could stick your hand in and be fine. I wouldn't stick my head in... because the brain signal needed to pull it back out wouldn't be able to get back to your body. Thus, you'd be effectively stuck unless someone pulled you out. You could also stick your hand into an incoming wormhole and still be ok. However, if you walk through it, you won't be transported... you'll just have your atoms dispersed everywhere between the planet you left and the origin point of the wormhole itself, and not be reconstituted on the other side. The gate was specifically designed to only work one way at a time. All the stargate does, is provide an anchor for the mouth of the wormhole to stay in our dimension long enough for travellers to go through it. To get a lock, the mouth of the wormhole has to connect with the inner rim of the gate. Whether it does that by creating a vortex and latching on, or by simply spreading out until it reaches the unobstructed inner rim, it will lock. IF, however, the inner rim where the event horizen is attached is blocked for any reason, the wormhole will not lock.

the Fifth Race
May 24th, 2005, 08:05 AM
What is the Earth Iris made of Sea?....Is it some kind of trinium/naquadah enhanced composite?.

immhotep
May 24th, 2005, 09:16 AM
1st one was tritanium, pure, the second was a trinium/titanium alloy.

Gladius77
May 24th, 2005, 10:38 AM
If your only being specific to the Iris, then no. Your right. Atlantis doesn't have a metallic Iris, but it does have an energy shield that does the exact same job. The event horizon forms within the shield without the vortex, just as it does with the Iris in place on Sg1. The event horizon itself isn't harmful, it is only the unstable vortex that is lethal. Once it has stabilized it is virtually harmless. You could stick your hand in and be fine. I wouldn't stick my head in... because the brain signal needed to pull it back out wouldn't be able to get back to your body. Thus, you'd be effectively stuck unless someone pulled you out. You could also stick your hand into an incoming wormhole and still be ok. However, if you walk through it, you won't be transported... you'll just have your atoms dispersed everywhere between the planet you left and the origin point of the wormhole itself, and not be reconstituted on the other side. The gate was specifically designed to only work one way at a time. All the stargate does, is provide an anchor for the mouth of the wormhole to stay in our dimension long enough for travellers to go through it. To get a lock, the mouth of the wormhole has to connect with the inner rim of the gate. Whether it does that by creating a vortex and latching on, or by simply spreading out until it reaches the unobstructed inner rim, it will lock. IF, however, the inner rim where the event horizen is attached is blocked for any reason, the wormhole will not lock.

Ok, some interesting info there (and making sense, finally!). But I'm guessing none of that is really made clear in SG-1?

Edit: Also, this still leaves the heavy thuds impacting the iris unexplained, I believe.

Also, another question. Where is the person/object during the time it takes to enter into the gate on one side? Because logically they can't start breaking down until they're actually INSIDE the gate already... but that means already being like 1m beyond the event horizon...

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 12:23 PM
No, the event horizon dematerializes matter as soon as it passes the event horizon, otherwise in the Episode of Stargate Atlantis "Thirty-Eight Minutes" they simply would have been able to walk into the front compartment of the puddle jumper and push the engines a bit to force them through the gate. Also you would be able to see something even after your eyes had passed the event horizon, Carter would have noticed it and said something like, "Well the event horizon must wait for the entire unit of matter and then dematerialize the matter in discrete units." But she didn't.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 01:59 PM
No, the event horizon dematerializes matter as soon as it passes the event horizon, otherwise in the Episode of Stargate Atlantis "Thirty-Eight Minutes" they simply would have been able to walk into the front compartment of the puddle jumper and push the engines a bit to force them through the gate. Also you would be able to see something even after your eyes had passed the event horizon, Carter would have noticed it and said something like, "Well the event horizon must wait for the entire unit of matter and then dematerialize the matter in discrete units." But she didn't.

Owen Macriaah yes very good point to clarify a little the Stargate does dematerializes matter as soon as it passes the event horizon, but doesn't transmit it until the whole object has been dematerializes.

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 02:09 PM
Yes, thank you Col. Newman, I should have said that as well. Thank you. Expect some reputation coming your way.

Owen Macri

Gladius77
May 24th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Just one little problem here... this might work fine for inanimate objects, but it would mean that a human entering the gate would start dematerilizing before they'd even gone through... which would be something akin to chainsawing someone in half from the head down. As soon as the brain was cut in two, the half of the body still left outside should fall down limp. Or am I missing something?

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 03:08 PM
Just one little problem here... this might work fine for inanimate objects, but it would mean that a human entering the gate would start dematerilizing before they'd even gone through... which would be something akin to chainsawing someone in half from the head down. As soon as the brain was cut in two, the half of the body still left outside should fall down limp. Or am I missing something?

2 things:

First, your forgetting momentum. Things that are moving tend to keep moving. So the person would continue moving towards the gate, even though they're sort of unconscious.

Second, the body is still operating on the last instructions it was given which was step forward. The wormhole also tends to pull you in on its own if enough mass is already passed through.

Obviously, none of us here are Ancients... so that means we have to take a leap of faith on some things. I'm just going to assume the Ancients designed it, so as to not kill you. Heck, if a transporter can work... why not the gate?? Anywho... that's sci-fi for you. Sometimes, you just need faith. :)

6thMonolith
May 24th, 2005, 03:09 PM
Just one little problem here... this might work fine for inanimate objects, but it would mean that a human entering the gate would start dematerilizing before they'd even gone through... which would be something akin to chainsawing someone in half from the head down. As soon as the brain was cut in two, the half of the body still left outside should fall down limp. Or am I missing something?

Thats what I'm thinking. It's never really been explained in the show much. In Gemini, the Replicarter is half in the Event Horizon, and is still able to pull and struggle against Teal'c.

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 03:14 PM
Thats what I'm thinking. It's never really been explained in the show much. In Gemini, the Replicarter is half in the Event Horizon, and is still able to pull and struggle against Teal'c.

Your forgetting that Replicarter was made up of many, many little nanites. Her cognitive functions weren't limited to her head. Her arm had a 'mind' of its own, so to speak. :p

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Thats what I'm thinking. It's never really been explained in the show much. In Gemini, the Replicarter is half in the Event Horizon, and is still able to pull and struggle against Teal'c.You have to remember that this is a TV show and the writers have a tendency to be inconsistent but there are artistic types (i would think since they are writers), and that’s just how they r.

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 03:20 PM
Your forgetting that Replicarter was made up of many, many little nanites. Her cognitive functions weren't limited to her head. Her arm had a 'mind' of its own, so to speak. :pthat makes sense

6thMonolith
May 24th, 2005, 03:26 PM
Your forgetting that Replicarter was made up of many, many little nanites. Her cognitive functions weren't limited to her head. Her arm had a 'mind' of its own, so to speak. :p

I'll try and think of another example....

How about the second episode, The Enemy Within. Kawalsky does struggle after he is in the 'gate, right? Its been awhile since I've seen that episode.

Gladius77
May 24th, 2005, 03:31 PM
Obviously, none of us here are Ancients... so that means we have to take a leap of faith on some things. I'm just going to assume the Ancients designed it, so as to not kill you. Heck, if a transporter can work... why not the gate?? Anywho... that's sci-fi for you. Sometimes, you just need faith. :)

Yea, though I think with teleport a bit smaller leap of faith is required... I find it much easier to believe that something could be reintegrated as a whole, if it was also put apart as a whole. The stargate concept basically takes Trek's teleport, and multiplies it by 1000 (if you consider the human body being reintegrated slice by slice as it exits the gate, still being conscious and everything).

I probably think too much. :D

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 03:34 PM
It has been proven that the gate pulls in matter, for example the season one episode "Fire and Water," when they are performing the memorial, they pushed a reef through the stargate then let it go, it was pulled through the event horizon.

As for the Kawalsky situation, that was only the second episode, but there is one possibilty, the gate already scans matter enetering the event horizon, perhaps it also duplicates the function of the part of the matter entering the gate until it has passed fully through the event horizon. For example, if a human were to stick his or her head in, the gate would recognize that a brain has entered the stargate and reproduce the functions of the brain traasmitting signals throughout the body telling it to keep walking.

Owen Macri

Seastallion
May 24th, 2005, 03:43 PM
I'll try and think of another example....

How about the second episode, The Enemy Within. Kawalsky does struggle after he is in the 'gate, right? Its been awhile since I've seen that episode.

Mmm... That still isn't a great example. Remember that Kawalsky was possessed by a Goa'uld. The Goa'uld itself controls the body, and it isn't in the top part of the brain. It is wrapped around the brain stem, and sort of 'plugged' into the brain. Also, we know that a Goa'uld can allow parts of itself to be cut away, and continue to survive, eventually growing back what it lost. Sort of like a lizard growing back its tail. Owen could have a point, as well. I just don't know. Like I said, sometimes you just have to have faith.

Actually, I'm somewhat of the mind that the gate doesn't entirely demolecularize you until you've fully passed through the gate. Where does the body parts you don't see go? Well, the gate does work by using extra-dimensions. Perhaps you have to be fully inside the extra dimensions, before the gate will transmit you through the wormhole. Of course the whole thing happens in less than nano-seconds, so the traveller wouldn't really recall anything happening... just a sort of flash, and then *pop* there on the other side. :)

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 03:48 PM
It seems as though the Goa'uld controls the brain which controls the body, not as though the Goa'uld controls the body directly.

If the gate did dematerialize matter in dicrete units, then you could stick your face past the event horizon and see, something. What? I don't know.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 04:19 PM
As for the Kawalsky situation, that was only the second episode, but there is one possibilty, the gate already scans matter enetering the event horizon, perhaps it also duplicates the function of the part of the matter entering the gate until it has passed fully through the event horizon. For example, if a human were to stick his or her head in, the gate would recognize that a brain has entered the stargate and reproduce the functions of the brain traasmitting signals throughout the body telling it to keep walking.

Owen MacriBrilliant, I’ve always assumed that the gate is EXTREMLY complex; i mean just comparing maybe the Tollans to our level of tech would be like comparing a chimp using a rock to mash nuts to our current level of tech, trying to compare the Ancients to us would be almost impossible

P.S. If you can’t sort out what I was trying to say then tell me and I’ll try to explain it better

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 04:45 PM
I understand what you are trying to say, it makes a lot of sense. Actually the stargate is a relativley simple device, there is only one complex part that we know of for sure, that is the creation and supportion of the wormhole, the wormhole is the only difficult part for us to achieve, other than that the stargate is relativly simple. (I am not including the simultation of bodily fuctions after dematerialization, which also wouldn't be to complicated, when you think of it.)

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 05:00 PM
I understand what you are trying to say, it makes a lot of sense. Actually the stargate is a relativley simple device, there is only one complex part that we know of for sure, that is the creation and supportion of the wormhole, the wormhole is the only difficult part for us to achieve, other than that the stargate is relativly simple. (I am not including the simultation of bodily fuctions after dematerialization, which also wouldn't be to complicated, when you think of it.)
Owen Macriwell when i said complex i meant it seems very complex to us, not the Ancients, the gate would have to have scanners and safeguard and other such things so that gate travel is safe, these things aren't mentioned in the show I was just theorizing

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 05:10 PM
I think I understand, but I am still saying that even to us the Stargate is not that complicated.

Owen Macri

Col. Newman
May 24th, 2005, 05:30 PM
I think I understand, but I am still saying that even to us the Stargate is not that complicated.

Owen Macriwell i guess it couldn't be that complex to us considering that we made our own dialing device

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 05:55 PM
Now that was incredibly easy, all we had to do was convert our computer code into the gates' language of electrical impulses, then fire them into the gate, the DHD communication is one of the spimlest aspects of stargate.

Owen Macri

6thMonolith
May 24th, 2005, 08:02 PM
...Except that it took us 15 years and 3 supercomputers to create that program :P

_Owen_
May 24th, 2005, 08:06 PM
That was because we had no prior knowledge of the gate. We didn't even know what it did, other than move in a circle and make some cool noises.

Owen Macri