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    Are you upset that ENT got cancelled?

    Is anyone here upset that Enterprise got cancelled? I was hoping that the show would conclude with a trilogy, but instead, it's ending with a two-parter, followed by a one-hour stand-alone series finale. From whut I've read... it's really bad... Still, I'll wait till I see it before making a final judgement.

    Only 4 episodes left.

    #2
    not really

    no attachment to at all anymore.
    Thanks!
    Jordan

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    From now on, our name will be 'Tenac'.

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      #3
      Not really, although I did recently start watching it here and there...o well...I hope next time they come out with a Star Trek series they don't try a prequal
      sigpic

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        #4
        Being a prequel or sequel has nothing to do with the show's quality.

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          #5
          I'm disappointed. Season 4 FINALLY gave me what I wanted, true prequel stories that tied in with the rest of the continuum. The quality of stories has increased greatly, and just as the show hits stride the boom is lowered.

          Most unfortunate.

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            #6
            The galaxy is an incomprehensibly large place, it'd be silly for the entire show to be one prequel story after another, however, we should have had about 2/3 episodic, 1/3 prequel story per season. I did enjoy the episodic format of the first two seasons and the Xindi/Expanse arc during the 3rd season, and since up to that point, we barely had anyprequel stories, making Season 4 the "prequel year" was enjoyable. A shame it's over. At least there's 4 episodes to go.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Daniel Jackson
              Is anyone here upset that Enterprise got cancelled? I was hoping that the show would conclude with a trilogy, but instead, it's ending with a two-parter, followed by a one-hour stand-alone series finale. From whut I've read... it's really bad... Still, I'll wait till I see it before making a final judgement.

              Only 4 episodes left.
              It's a yes/no situation for me. On one hand, I feel ENT had so much potential; it also filled my need for more sci-fi. So, yes, I'm sad it's been canceled because it was making great improvements with Manny Cotto's superb writing ability; however, on the the other hand, ENT deserves to die. Why? Well, four seasons on the air and only the last season was good? For the first three years, the plots were lame, the writing sucked, and the characters needed major development. The Temporal Cold War, Xindi/Expanse/Suliban arc sucked so bad, it turned me so off to Enterprise. I know you like time travel, but for many hard core Trekkers and sci-fi fans, time travel is just bad sci-fi. So is Alternate Universe stuff. yeah, they can be fun episodes, like in Stargate's "Moebius", but only for 1-2 episodes, not an almost entire season or two of time stuff. That is just lazy writing and bad planning.

              If Enterprise started off exploring the formation of the Federation, describing the problems on Vulcan, and introducing species familar to us from the original series, I think it would have become stronger and endeared many of us. However, Enterprise spit in the face of many Trekkers and basically lost credibility. There were NO Xindi ever mentioned in any of the Star Trek series exept Enterprise. Never any Suliban. Never any Sphere Builders. You would think Kirk, SPock, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, or someone would have mentioned the race that attacked Earth in 2154 and killed millions of people, but NAH....a mere oversight.

              Then, out of the blue, on the verge of death, Manny Cotto comes aboard and shifts the direction from Crewman Daniels, Temporal Cold War, Suliban, Xindi, Spheres, and Space Nazis and introduces the formation of the federation, the Romulans, the problems on Vulcan, the changes in Vulcan thinking, expansion of Starfleet, and our relations with other TOS races. He did a great job and totally reformed the series. I'm sad cuz of the loss of potential. I would have loved to see how Manny Cotto would have expanded the Enterprise world and connected it to Kirk's generation. Enterprise was a huge disappointment IMO. I'm sad to see it go now that it's redeemed itself, but it's too late. It alienated fans and upset many viewers by such awful writing and direction.

              ENT committed sci-fi suicide and will be an example of what not to do for other series. It did so poorly, it's possible we will never see another Star Trek series or movie again, or at least, for a long time, and that's sad.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Daniel Jackson
                Being a prequel or sequel has nothing to do with the show's quality.
                What are you talking about? If you bill the show as a Prequel to Kirk's generation and call it Star Trek, then it certainly is relevant. The show's quality spoke for itself. Star Trek has an established set of rules, species, characters, etc. You simply cannot go back to the early years of Star Trek and introduce several new species, focus on time travel, and introduce major events that are never mentioned later.

                If ENTERPRISE was a series that took place in the 25th century, after Picard/Janeway, then it would be okay to introduce new alien species and refer to specific events that happened after Picard's generation. However, you cannot go back in time, before 40 years of Star Trek history and lore, and create a new ST universe.

                In Star Trek history and lore, there is no such thing as the Temporal Cold War. There were never sphere builders. There is no such species as the Suliban, nor are there a race known as the Xindi who attacked Earth in 2154. Wouldn't you think that an alien race that attacked Earth and killed millions of people would have been mentioned in the Orginal Series, the movies, TNG, DS9, or Voyager? Um, wouldn't that be a relevant and important fact? Of course it would.

                The piss poor writing of Seasons 1-3 altered...no mutilated...the ST canon and history so badly, that even more open-minded fans were offended. They didn't have the decency to alter the Xindi attack once the Temporal Cold War ended after the Space Nazi fiasco. They let it remain! Enterprise's first three seasons will forever taint Star Trek. Season 4, however, is a different story.

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                  #9
                  So they're not going to wrap up the temporal cold war storyline? Have they actually finished the series without explaining what the diddly they were thinking during the first three seasons?

                  In the UK we've only got up to Awakening, but I really have been enjoying the fourth season. I almost didn't bother after what I had to sit through the last three years.

                  If you'd asked me a couple of months ago what I thought about it being cancelled, I couldn't really have cared less. But now I think it deserves a few more seasons. But knowing how the Star Trek franchise is doing, season four would probably just be a blip, and then we'd get some more mind-numbingly awful stories.

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                    #10
                    I am quite saddened by the fact that the show is ending. I firmly believe it deserves another three years, personally. Mind you, however, this is also the scale which dictates Farscape should have had another six, and that SG1 and Atlantis should not end until I'm 30. Mind you, again, I'm not even a legal adult yet.
                    If you've seen a Jeff O'Connor or a JeffZero or a Jeff Zero or a JeffZeroConnor elsewhere on the net, there's a considerable chance it's me.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Hywel
                      So they're not going to wrap up the temporal cold war storyline? Have they actually finished the series without explaining what the diddly they were thinking during the first three seasons?

                      In the UK we've only got up to Awakening, but I really have been enjoying the fourth season. I almost didn't bother after what I had to sit through the last three years.

                      If you'd asked me a couple of months ago what I thought about it being cancelled, I couldn't really have cared less. But now I think it deserves a few more seasons. But knowing how the Star Trek franchise is doing, season four would probably just be a blip, and then we'd get some more mind-numbingly awful stories.
                      Do you really care if they resolve the TCW? I mean, no...it's dead and so is the show because of it.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by LordAnubis
                        It's a yes/no situation for me. On one hand, I feel ENT had so much potential; it also filled my need for more sci-fi. So, yes, I'm sad it's been canceled because it was making great improvements with Manny Cotto's superb writing ability; however, on the the other hand, ENT deserves to die. Why? Well, four seasons on the air and only the last season was good?
                        I agree, except for ENT needing to die.

                        For the first three years, the plots were lame, the writing sucked, and the characters needed major development.
                        Your average Trekkie would agree, but I liked the first 3 seasons, though I agree, Season 2 had some bad episodes. I did like the Borg episode, though, as I'd been waiting for that "kind" of story ever since I saw the movie back in 1996.

                        The Temporal Cold War, Xindi/Expanse/Suliban arc sucked so bad, it turned me so off to Enterprise. I know you like time travel, but for many hard core Trekkers and sci-fi fans, time travel is just bad sci-fi. So is Alternate Universe stuff. yeah, they can be fun episodes, like in Stargate's "Moebius", but only for 1-2 episodes, not an almost entire season or two of time stuff. That is just lazy writing and bad planning.
                        I don't understand how time travel is "bad sci-fi." Time travel is quite possible, it's just highly unlikely that anyone will figure it out. Man figuring out time travel might as well be a cat doing calculus. Anywho, yes, I liked the Sulliban, TCW, and the later Xindi/Expanse arcs, and I'm glad the Xindi/Expanse arc was wrapped up in "Zero Hour," followed by the TCW being concluded in "Storm Front," but we didn't get an ending to the whole Sulliban arc. *sigh* I haven't seen "Moebius," I gotta wait for the Season 8 DVD in October, but I've read some spoilers and seen lots of screen caps. It looks to be a spectacular episode! I hope it gets blended into one, long episode for the DVD like they did with "Lost City." As for the whole alternate universe stuff... the occasional "alternate universe" romp is fun, but I wouldn't want to see it done too much as there's no evidance that "alternate universes" exist, so I view that as a fantasy story rather than sci-fi.

                        If Enterprise started off exploring the formation of the Federation, describing the problems on Vulcan, and introducing species familar to us from the original series, I think it would have become stronger and endeared many of us.
                        I agree, ENT should have been doing this in the background since Season 1, then by Season 4, make it the show's central premise. However, I enjoyed the original stories from the first two seasons (even if they were lame), and the Xindi/Expanse arc due to it's originallity in relation to Trek in general. As a prequel, it needs to bring us both prequel stories and original stories.

                        However, Enterprise spit in the face of many Trekkers and basically lost credibility. There were NO Xindi ever mentioned in any of the Star Trek series exept Enterprise. Never any Suliban. Never any Sphere Builders. You would think Kirk, SPock, Picard, Janeway, Sisko, or someone would have mentioned the race that attacked Earth in 2154 and killed millions of people, but NAH....a mere oversight.
                        That's becuase when TOS came out, it wasn't planned to take place in any specific time period, it was just "the distant future." The 2nd movie established TOS taking place in the 23rd century. The 22nd century was never explored in Trek, and few referrences were made on purpose so down the road, they could do a series in that era without having to worry about continuity too much. The Gorn were never seen nore mentioned on TNG, DS9, nor VOY, does that mean they didn't exist? Just relax, and accept that ENT is a "new chapter" to Star Trek that will bring us both prequel stories and new, original stories and aliens to the franchise. As I said, the galaxy is vast, so it's not unusual to go a long time without encountering a species. We see the Klingons and Romulans so often, however, because they're right next to the Federation, interstellar neighbors if you will.

                        Then, out of the blue, on the verge of death, Manny Cotto comes aboard and shifts the direction from Crewman Daniels, Temporal Cold War, Suliban, Xindi, Spheres, and Space Nazis and introduces the formation of the federation, the Romulans, the problems on Vulcan, the changes in Vulcan thinking, expansion of Starfleet, and our relations with other TOS races. He did a great job and totally reformed the series.
                        Well, the Xindi/Expanse arc was promised to last only the durration of Season 3, so the only thing Coto had to wrap up was the whole TCW arc. I was expecting it to be concluded this year anyway, and I think he did a great job, but I would have liked to see an additional 2-3 episodes to wrap up the Sulliban and reveal "Future Guy." Ah well, we got an end to the TCW instead of just ignorring it this year, so I guess I shouldn't complain too much. In any event, this has been my favorite season! The only episode I didn't like was "Bound."

                        I'm sad cuz of the loss of potential. I would have loved to see how Manny Cotto would have expanded the Enterprise world and connected it to Kirk's generation. Enterprise was a huge disappointment IMO. I'm sad to see it go now that it's redeemed itself, but it's too late. It alienated fans and upset many viewers by such awful writing and direction.
                        Agreed on all points, except connecting the show to Kirk's generation. The show is set 100 years before TOS, thus there's no reason why the two shows should be connected. ENT is a prequel to the franchise, not just TOS.

                        ENT committed sci-fi suicide and will be an example of what not to do for other series. It did so poorly, it's possible we will never see another Star Trek series or movie again, or at least, for a long time, and that's sad.
                        Actually, they're working on a new prequel movie set between ENT and TOS, probably a Romulan War movie, so we fans hope anyway. In any event, the show didn't commit suicide, Berman and Braga drove it into the ground. They didn't do it on purpose, I just think they're burned out on Trek. When the show started, they should have brought in Manny Coto with the first season with Berman and Braga simply in "supervisor" roles or something. That way, we could have had original stories, prequal stories, the TCW, the Xindi/Expanse arc, the Romulan War, the founding of the UFP (they'd have to skip a few years for the series finale, which they're actually doing come May 13th), and it all would have blended together nicely. Where oh where was Manny Coto in 2001?

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by LordAnubis
                          Do you really care if they resolve the TCW? I mean, no...it's dead and so is the show because of it.
                          I know the question isn't directed at me, but I care. Fortunately, they TCW is indeed resolved in the first two episodes of the season, "Storm Front, Parts I & II." The episodes were aired sperately.

                          The TCW isn't "dead," it concluded in "Storm Front, Part II." As for the show being dead becuase of it... Here's a list of all the TCW episodes:

                          1-01/02 "Broken Bow" (counts as 2 episodes)
                          1-11 "Cold Front"
                          1-26 "Shockwave"
                          2-01 "Shockwave, Part II"
                          2-16 "Future Tense"
                          2-26 "The Expanse"
                          3-11 "Carpenter Street" (not sure about this one)
                          3-15 "Harbinger"
                          3-18 "Azati Prime" (indirectly a TCW episode)
                          3-22 "The Council"
                          3-23 "Countdown"
                          3-24 "Zero Hour"
                          4-01 "Storm Front"
                          4-02 "Storm Front, Part II"

                          That's 15 out of 98 episodes. Somehow, I doubt that killed the show.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            That's becuase when TOS came out, it wasn't planned to take place in any specific time period, it was just "the distant future." The 2nd movie established TOS taking place in the 23rd century. The 22nd century was never explored in Trek, and few referrences were made on purpose so down the road, they could do a series in that era without having to worry about continuity too much. The Gorn were never seen nore mentioned on TNG, DS9, nor VOY, does that mean they didn't exist? Just relax, and accept that ENT is a "new chapter" to Star Trek that will bring us both prequel stories and new, original stories and aliens to the franchise. As I said, the galaxy is vast, so it's not unusual to go a long time without encountering a species. We see the Klingons and Romulans so often, however, because they're right next to the Federation, interstellar neighbors if you will.
                            Okay, big difference. The Gorn were a powerful Alpha Quad species (or Beta?), but they never attacked Earth or started a war with any Federation aligned planet. The Xindi, an alien species, attacked Earth, a key player in the UFP. We have 40 years of ST history to go with, which includes all series and all movies. Not once was there any mention of the Xindi or any alien attack on Earth that could have been the Xinidi attack. I do believe the Gorn were mentioned, but not shown, in TNG or DS9 or something. TNG introduced new species like the Ferengi, but that is logical since it took place after TOS and with time, more species will be encountered.

                            Using our own history on Earth as an example, it's not uncommon to compare one tragic event with another. After 9/11, many observers compared the attack on the WTC with Pearl Harbor. Major events, even though distant, do not go away. To this day, even after 60 years, we talk about the Holocaust, Pearl Harbor, Japense Internment camps, slavery, Civil rights movement, the Cold War (Not temporal!), etc. Those past events shaped our current situation. In the ST universe, a major event like an extraterrestrial event would be significant. I dont think Phlox' species, the Denobulans, were ever mentioned in TNG, TOS, DS9, or VOY, but so what? His species never attacked Earth or Vulcan or did anything noteworthy; just another species in a big galaxy, but the Xindi? That's different! They attacked our homeworld; that would have been, and should have been mentioned in the following series.

                            I don't understand how time travel is "bad sci-fi." Time travel is quite possible, it's just highly unlikely that anyone will figure it out. Man figuring out time travel might as well be a cat doing calculus. Anywho, yes, I liked the Sulliban, TCW, and the later Xindi/Expanse arcs, and I'm glad the Xindi/Expanse arc was wrapped up in "Zero Hour," followed by the TCW being concluded in "Storm Front," but we didn't get an ending to the whole Sulliban arc. *sigh* I haven't seen "Moebius," I gotta wait for the Season 8 DVD in October, but I've read some spoilers and seen lots of screen caps. It looks to be a spectacular episode! I hope it gets blended into one, long episode for the DVD like they did with "Lost City." As for the whole alternate universe stuff... the occasional "alternate universe" romp is fun, but I wouldn't want to see it done too much as there's no evidance that "alternate universes" exist, so I view that as a fantasy story rather than sci-fi.
                            Time travel is not a bad sci-fi concept, per se, however, it is often used as a filler. It's often used in a lazy way. Hey, we can't think of anything original or cool to do this week, so let's write an episode where so-and-so goes back in time and encounters Atilla the Hun and finds the Arc of the Covenent and comes back and eats pie! It's overused and presents too many time continuity issues. Is this reality the reality that's real, or is there no such thing as a constant reality? If a particular species can travel back to a specific time, what would prevent them from changing history to be in their favor? Remember First Contact? The Borg apparently knew how to travel in time. So, why not do it again after they failed the first time? If you can do it once, you can do it twice and three times, etc. Instead of preventing first contact with the Vulcans, why not go back to when we were climbing around in the trees and enslave us millions of years ago? Every ripple in time has lasting consequences. It's complicated and sci-fi oversimplifies it and makes it seem like a good thing and easy to do. It's a gap filler, not a good sci-fi device. IMO, of course.

                            Agreed on all points, except connecting the show to Kirk's generation. The show is set 100 years before TOS, thus there's no reason why the two shows should be connected. ENT is a prequel to the franchise, not just TOS.
                            You're missing the point. Enterprise was not labeled just another show; it was labaled Star Trek. It was advertised as a prequel. It was firmly established that this was a Star Trek franchise/prequel. Therefore, everything that has been done before, TOS, TNG, VOY, DS9, the movies, are most definitely relevant and are most definitely connected. Without a clear connection, Enterprise might as well be a separate sci-fi program. You need to link it to the other ST shows/movies and show how it fits in. The 100 year time spanse is relevant just as it is between TOS and TNG. This is ST and all ST shows should maintain consistency and continuity. To do otherwise is wrong.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Daniel Jackson
                              I know the question isn't directed at me, but I care. Fortunately, they TCW is indeed resolved in the first two episodes of the season, "Storm Front, Parts I & II." The episodes were aired sperately.

                              The TCW isn't "dead," it concluded in "Storm Front, Part II." As for the show being dead becuase of it... Here's a list of all the TCW episodes:

                              1-01/02 "Broken Bow" (counts as 2 episodes)
                              1-11 "Cold Front"
                              1-26 "Shockwave"
                              2-01 "Shockwave, Part II"
                              2-16 "Future Tense"
                              2-26 "The Expanse"
                              3-11 "Carpenter Street" (not sure about this one)
                              3-15 "Harbinger"
                              3-18 "Azati Prime" (indirectly a TCW episode)
                              3-22 "The Council"
                              3-23 "Countdown"
                              3-24 "Zero Hour"
                              4-01 "Storm Front"
                              4-02 "Storm Front, Part II"

                              That's 15 out of 98 episodes. Somehow, I doubt that killed the show.
                              You have your opinion, I have mine. The fact is, however, the show is being canceled, so maybe more agree with me? I also think the UPN network is the wrong place for ST shows. Sci-fi might be better, but still, I don't think the TCW helped Enterprise, especially to die hard fans.

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