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Remember those common themes in Science Fiction?

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    Remember those common themes in Science Fiction?

    This thread is for those of use who are really science fiction fans and not just fans of one show or another. I wanted to use this thread to discuss the commond themes in all science fiction, from the popular ideas to the most memorable episodes to character formula's the seem to work. Come on, any remember how terms like "alternate universe" or ideas like a sling shot around the sun for time travel have carried through the ages.

    This isn't for people who will flame other shows, claiming the Farscape stole an idea for Stargate, or Stargate stole an idea of Farscape of Star Trek <in any of it's various incarnations>. Don't come here and say, "That idea was used in Stargate" or "the replicators are ripped off the Borg." This isn't for fanboys or fangirls but long standing scifi fans who can <pardon the cliche here> talk the talk.

    Discuss these ideas and why they are so good.

    I'd like to start by using one of the topics I mentioned above: using the sun for time travel. In Star Trek: the original series they sling shot around the sun to travel to different eras in history. Similiarly, in Stargate, they use the sun during solar flares on the other side of the sun to sling shot back to earth and go backwards in time. While the ideas are different, they certainly have their similarities. In both instances, the exact point in time cannot be pinpointed, only a general idea.

    It also happens to be the source of some of the best episodes of Stargate <1969 and 2010> and, in the case of ST:TOS, a very good movie <Star Trek IV: The Journey Home>.

    Anyway, those are my initial thoughts, and I'd like to see where this thread leads.
    Last edited by Wandering Tamer; 12 April 2005, 12:04 PM.
    'Nou ani anquietus' - 'We are the Ancients:’ teachers of roads and builders of the 'gate.

    #2
    everything was stolden from the old outer limits LOL

    anyway I think science fiction is basicly just how the story is told not what plots were taken from what shows.
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      #3
      Originally posted by Vala
      everything was stolden from the old outer limits LOL
      Frighteningly true!

      anyway I think science fiction is basicly just how the story is told not what plots were taken from what shows.
      No, I disagree.

      Some common elements:

      The alien yet human crewmember who has different abilities. Greater strength, for example: Spock, Teal'c, D'Argo.

      The "science officer": The doctor in "The Forbidden Planet", Spock, Data, Carter, McKay.

      Aliens impersonating Gods: Apollo from Trek, the Goa'uld from Stargate.

      Symbiotes that give greater strength and take over the body: TNG Season one conspiracy & the Goa'uld are pretty similar.

      Symbiotes that DON'T take over who allow the host to remember the lives of prior hosts: The Trill from DS9 and the Tok'ra.

      But lets try stories instead of elements.

      Dr. Jackson's trip through the quantum mirror was very much the same as "Unrealized Realities" in Farscape (the stories were writtne by the same guy), where other realities allow the hero to find a clue to help him in his HOME reality.

      The list goes on!

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        #4
        One common theme shared by books, movies and tv is The Wonder That Is Humanity.

        Aliens throughout history have seen the light when it comes to superior human morality. We're generally funnier, hold life in higher esteem, and are more tolerant and forgiving.

        Another common theme in SF is that primitive technology in the hands of cunning protagonists pretty much always beats advanced tech in a violent species that's been conquering entire planets since before the hero's species became sentient.

        I know that sounds sarcastic, but, in truth, with few exceptions, these elements are what we all generally enjoy in a good SF story; we want humanity to be able to win against all odds - especially against impossible odds.
        Gracie

        A Cherokee elder sitting with his grandchildren told them,
        "In every life there is a terrible fight – a fight between two wolves.
        One is evil: he is fear, anger, envy, greed, arrogance, self-pity,
        resentment, and deceit. The other is good: joy, serenity, humility,
        confidence, generosity, truth, gentleness, and compassion."
        A child asked, "Grandfather, which wolf will win?"
        The elder looked the child in the eye. "The one you feed."


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          #5
          Im sure some of you have been to the list of cliches.

          That notion of human supremecy in morality has always bugged me in scifi. By using moral reasoning, we have shamed superbeings like the Q or other very advanced species. It is extremely blatant in Star Trek where humans are always called unique because they can:

          1. Put aside differences and work together because aliens certainly cant

          2. Can see the big picture unlike those myopic, narrow-mided aliens

          Humans are always the glue and pillar of every alliance/federation and never a junior partner or marginal member and certainly never villains (except in alternate reality episodes). Humanism is "A system of thought that centers on humans and their values, capacities, and worth". In other words, humanism is the racism of scifi.

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            #6
            Very true. Though Vulcans are even MORE perfect than humans! Most shows have an alien who is somehow MORE than human, too. Teal'c is stronger, faster, and OLDER than his human counterparts, after all!

            I personally found DS9, which didn't have the overwhelming "humans are superior" mentality, the least problematic of all Trek incarnations.

            When you get right down to it, the SG humans are probably some of the least offensive of all scifi humans... the Tauri were valuable allies, but no more important than the Tok'ra, the Free Jaffa, and certainly NOT on an even standing with the Asgard!

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              #7
              Originally posted by Unas
              Humans are always the glue and pillar of every alliance/federation and never a junior partner or marginal member
              That's true, and a reason that I loved Farscape. It was because he was human (and hence not familliar with any of his new corner of the universe) that John was treated by his crewmates as a slightly dim and very useless for a year or two. Even when he had merited greater respect from them in the fourth year they still all found Earth far too strange for them and were only too glad to leave - John included.

              And I like Stargate's take on this too. It was logical that the Humans should be the central faction in any Tok'ra/Jaffa/Human alliance, but just as logical that they wouldn't be able to keep the alliance together for long. They're only human after all, and they were the central faction only because the other two factions were mutually hostile so each ceeded the central position to the Tauri. The de facto leaders of the alliance were thus the race that all others within the alliance considered inferior; so it was doomed from the start.

              Madeleine

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                #8
                The biggest gripe I have with Sci-Fi is the notion that humans are the "diplomats" and the least likely to start a war.

                Human history has shown we are far more likely to start war than sit at a negotiating table - especially when it's with other human's, but put us in space and all our blatent hostility gets sucked into the void and we are suddenly "lovers not fighters" to paraphrase.

                Just once, I'd like to see an alien pee itself when it meets a human because it knows humans are extremely aggressive and exceptionally less tolerant of things we consider to be different, than we would like to imagine.

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                  #9
                  Oh, I like that.

                  Humans as the shock troops of the galaxy.

                  DOMINATE THOSE FREAKING FURLINGS!

                  DEATH TO THE EWOKS!

                  You know, Star Wars actually DOES make humans the badasses of the universe. Stormtroopers were all human (albeit clones!).
                  Last edited by Darth Buddha; 12 April 2005, 08:35 PM.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by nathanaus
                    The biggest gripe I have with Sci-Fi is the notion that humans are the "diplomats" and the least likely to start a war.

                    Human history has shown we are far more likely to start war than sit at a negotiating table - especially when it's with other human's, but put us in space and all our blatent hostility gets sucked into the void and we are suddenly "lovers not fighters" to paraphrase.

                    Just once, I'd like to see an alien pee itself when it meets a human because it knows humans are extremely aggressive and exceptionally less tolerant of things we consider to be different, than we would like to imagine.
                    Most science fiction is set in the future, and people want to hold an idealistic view of humanity's future. Maybe they hope that if we see it enough that's what we'll become . The aliens peeing themselves could be the Nox, or any number of minor Star Trek races. If the Vulcans were shocked they wouldn't show it, but they do express exasperation with human rashness.

                    In Children of the Mind (great book by the way) it is speculated that perhaps it is humans that are the race (of the 4/5 in the series) with such a divergent worldview as to be incapable of coexistence.


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                      #11
                      So not completely related to the topic ... but sort of is.

                      The greatest things invented by Sci-Fi in my opinions are:

                      1. The lightsabre. Honestly how cool is that little thing? Nothing before or since compares to the light sabre. Other's have tried but they just don't match it.

                      2. Transporters. They save tons of time in the story telling. They get you where you need to be quickly. All it takes is a glass full of glitter and you have your effects

                      Anyway the reason for this post, I was thinking the other day about the lightsabre. Yes sad I know. I was trying to think of what would even come close to it in terms of "coolness", usability, strength (it can cut through a solid steel door after a while), and the sound effects rock. You always know when a light sabre has fired up.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by nathanaus
                        The biggest gripe I have with Sci-Fi is the notion that humans are the "diplomats" and the least likely to start a war.

                        I always thought that conciet is because humanity was so new to the politcal workings of other races, that we were basically the most unbiased species out there.
                        Usually humans are portrayed as one of the last species to figure out space travel (SG is no exception), so there has been centuries or millienia for other races to build their respective grudges with each other.

                        Just my two cents.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Tracker
                          I always thought that conciet is because humanity was so new to the politcal workings of other races, that we were basically the most unbiased species out there.
                          Usually humans are portrayed as one of the last species to figure out space travel (SG is no exception), so there has been centuries or millienia for other races to build their respective grudges with each other.

                          Just my two cents.
                          Yeah I can see that, but that raises another issue I have. if all these other species have had centuries of space travel, how come we can so quickly catch up?

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by nathanaus
                            Yeah I can see that, but that raises another issue I have. if all these other species have had centuries of space travel, how come we can so quickly catch up?
                            That was the miracle of the asian economy for a good long while.

                            It is a lot easier to catch up than to innovate. So you can make really good time by copying.

                            The reason the southern asian economies tanked is because when you are ALMOST caught up (and your economy developed to the point that you actually need to compete to support your new standard of living your people have gotten used to), you have to start innovating.

                            That's a lot harder.
                            Last edited by Darth Buddha; 13 April 2005, 10:39 PM.

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                              #15
                              I think part of the reason sci-fi plots get centered around humanity is because we humans are the ones writing it. Can you imagine what it might be like to read a book or watch a show done by another species. It would probably be centered around their world because they know themselves but can only speculate on what others might be like (as we do). I don't know if they would use such ideas as using the sun to time travel or other similar ideas we have because they would probably think differently.
                              "Embress your life, find what it is that you love, and pursue it with all your soul. For if you do not, when you come to die, you will find that you have not lived."

                              A character from the novel "Chindi" by Jack McDevitt

                              Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one.
                              'Eleanor Roosevelt'
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