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**jyh** · 25 March 2005, 04:30 AM

On the one hand, I enjoy the new BG... it's very well written & certainly well-acted. So in that respoct, I like the show. On the other hand, I too find the show 'bleak'. I know the world of BG is a very dark place, with the humans being in dire circumstances. But does it have to be so heavy? I don't think I've ever seen anything resembling a comic scene. Even in the midst of the most perilous circumstances, there are moments of joy and/or humor. A light-hearted minor storyline, however brief, wouldn't ruin the drama of the series, would it? To me, it would make it that much more believable.

**morjana** · 25 March 2005, 06:36 AM

Originally posted by jyh

I don't think I've ever seen anything resembling a comic scene. Even in the midst of the most perilous circumstances, there are moments of joy and/or humor. A light-hearted minor storyline, however brief, wouldn't ruin the drama of the series, would it? To me, it would make it that much more believable.

The "comic" scenes ARE in there -- we've seen (recently) Apollo and Starbuck squirt each other with a water hose on Cloud Nine -- and (hopefully) the various scenes of people catching Baltar interacting with the Cylon babe in his head are meant to funny.

I think the comic scenes in BSG are subtle for the most part.

Morjana

**Jeff O'Connor** · 25 March 2005, 07:40 AM

Curious... the article makes reference to a 22-episode second season, but I was under the impression it'll be 20, like SG-1 and Atlantis. Was I informed incorrectly, or... have they changed their minds on the matter?

**in circles** · 25 March 2005, 07:49 AM

I've never liked Star Trek and the bleakness of BSG really appeals to me. Just started watching it after seeing so many people recommending it.

**keshou** · 25 March 2005, 08:16 AM

Last I heard it was 20 episodes - the 22 episodes may be just an error in the article.

I really like the bleak, dark, grittiness of BSG. And I have the feeling that the writers might not hesitate to kill off any of these characters at some point -- that adds to the uncertainty and the drama of the series. I also like that each of the characters has flaws - very bad flaws in some cases - and yet can be heroic as well.

I agree with Morjana that there have been some subtle comic moments but for the most part we're still early into seeing the journey these people are taking. They've been in survival mode which doesn't lend itself to comedy. I thought "Tigh me Up, Tigh me Down", although not my favorite ep (I wanted to punt wifey out the nearest airlock), had some comedy in it. I think we'll see more of those moments as this group continues their journey and not every episode is a "life or death" scenario.

Personally I think Stargate has always done a good job of including comic moments in their episodes. Snarky remarks from Jack to ease the tension of a situation or to throw their enemy off-guard. Banter moments within the team, etc. But lately it's been too much of the slapstick variety and Jack has devolved into 60% comic relief and 40% commanding officer. So I'm welcoming the more "grown-up, sophisticated" vision that BSG is giving us.

There's room for all different types of shows - I think it's wonderful that Scifi's Friday night lineup and shows like "Lost" are doing so well. That means there will be more interest in developing new scifi shows.

A couple of years ago things were looking pretty bleak as Firefly failed, Enterprise was barely alive, Andromeda lost its way and other shows like Buffy and Angel finished their runs.

**IMHERETOBUGYOU** · 25 March 2005, 01:16 PM

whoa that a lot of reading. If what your saying is that you like Battle Star Galactica, then yes.

**Unas** · 25 March 2005, 01:39 PM

What is particularly appealing about BSG is that it avoids those one-shot cliche episodes that abound in other scifi/fantasy shows. There are no episodes where an epidemic is cured by the last scene, characters switch bodies/shrink/age, or is judged/toyed with by godlike beings. It avoids these cliches even better than X-Files, a show set in our place and time. BSG is one solid story arc that doesnt go into significant tangents.

**jyh** · 26 March 2005, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by morjana

and (hopefully) the various scenes of people catching Baltar interacting with the Cylon babe in his head are meant to funny.

Now, see, I don't find those Baltar/Six scenes to be funny. Sure, the first episode or two, it was amusing when other people saw him 'interacting' with someone who's not really there, but after a while I just found it grating and embarassing. It's a silly plot device that has been overdone and has worn too thin. (imho) It happens about every week, and if Baltar acted that way in real life, he would have been locked up in a padded room by now, not acting as chief scientist and appointed vice president.

Plus, I know people are going to disagee w/ me on this, but I also don't like the reliance BSG has on sex scenes. I'm no prude, but they're crossing over into Nip/Tuck territory in their explicitness (explicity??) and to me the scenes aren't always necessary. Fewer, more subtle scenes could serve the very same function, but it appears TPTB want to attract another audience. BSG could have milions more viewers, teenagers, if not for these scenes. I know I wouldn't let a 13-year-old watch the show, or even a 15-year-old, because of these scenes. How many teenage viewers could this show add if parents felt comfortable letting their kids watch?? To me the sex scenes are almost one of the "cliche scenes" that Unas doesn't care for. (Well, Unas doesn't care for the OTHER cliche scenes... I don't know about the sex scenes.) As I said I know my stance won't be popular, and people will say 'it's an adult show and sex really happens so that means it's totally OK.' My response to that silly argument is always the same: Just because something happens in real life doesn't mean people want to (or need to) see it.

**KatG** · 26 March 2005, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by jyh

Plus, I know people are going to disagee w/ me on this, but I also don't like the reliance BSG has on sex scenes. I'm no prude, but they're crossing over into Nip/Tuck territory in their explicitness (explicity??) and to me the scenes aren't always necessary. Fewer, more subtle scenes could serve the very same function, but it appears TPTB want to attract another audience. BSG could have milions more viewers, teenagers, if not for these scenes. I know I wouldn't let a 13-year-old watch the show, or even a 15-year-old, because of these scenes. How many teenage viewers could this show add if parents felt comfortable letting their kids watch?? To me the sex scenes are almost one of the "cliche scenes" that Unas doesn't care for. (Well, Unas doesn't care for the OTHER cliche scenes... I don't know about the sex scenes.) As I said I know my stance won't be popular, and people will say 'it's an adult show and sex really happens so that means it's totally OK.' My response to that silly argument is always the same: Just because something happens in real life doesn't mean people want to (or need to) see it.

I happen to agree with you. I enjoy BSG. I find the characters interesting and the plots riveting, but tend to TIVO it and kind of zip through those scenes. Watching the ep that aired last night, (the Kara/Baltar scene), hubs was heard to say "Come on, this it getting a little out of hand". Alluding to something happening, is much better than shoving it in your face imo. This is definitely not a show that I would feel comfortable watching with my kids or in mixed company because of that very reason.

Still, I guess that's why they air it at 10:00pm huh?

**spg_1983** · 26 March 2005, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by KatG

Still, I guess that's why they air it at 10:00pm huh?

thats exactly why it is aired at 10 pm. this isnt star trek, this isnt stargate. this is a very adult science fiction series and has been meant as one from the begining. thats why they arent afraid to show people actually dying and show blood sprayed on the ground when someone gets shot. it is a very real, very dark series, and it is something that the genre has been lacking for a very very long time, mainly due to star trek. star trek was a very clean, cheerful series in which everything was solved by the end of the episode, and everyone got along hunky dory for the most part, and no one ever had sex. star trek became like the ideal for what sci fi was supposed to be because of its success, which is great, but it turned sci fi into a joke, BSG is starting to reclaim that and show that sci fi isnt just about showing the ideal future and everybody being happy and always winning, it is reclaiming the genre as a legitimate meanse for expression and social commentary.

**Liebestraume** · 26 March 2005, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by spg_1983

star trek was a very clean, cheerful series in which everything was solved by the end of the episode, and everyone got along hunky dory for the most part, and no one ever had sex.

What do you mean? Don't you know Kirk had a babe on every planet?

All kidding aside, I agree with KatG's statement in general

Originally posted by KatG

Alluding to something happening, is much better than shoving it in your face imo

There is too much random, gratuitous sex (and violence) on TV -- "random" because they serve no apparent plot/character development purpose, other than for shock or tantalization. They also tend to be rendered in such a "tasteful" way -- showing ten layers of sheets between the characters or having a bullet hole with no blood spillage -- to further insult the viewers' intelligence. That's the kind of show I'll be embarrassed to watch in any company.

But I do think BG distinguish itself in this aspect. Take, for example, the bedroom scene in Kobol's Last Gleaming. IMHO it was not about sex but all about Kara. It lent perspective to what transpired or alluded to in prior episodes and set up the rest of this episode. Even if I overlook the obvious "ship" aspect, I learned that Kara was somewhat self-destructive, which explains her dare-devil demeanor in general and her subsequent willingness to go on Roslin's suicide mission in particular. The juxtaposition with Lee's control issues worked really well in the teaser (as well as in the whole episode). Although the camera was panning over the flesh, what it (and the misic) really built was tension, not tantalization; until Kara dropped her bomb, I was going like "whoa? is that Lee? but he is sparring with dad! what's going on?"

I am actually surprised that no one has yet commented on the violence in BG, because the only time this show made me squirm was during the interrogation in Flesh and Bone. I have seen my share of TV violence, but bare-knuckled punch as well as the sound of flesh tearing and bones cracking are still rare (for me, at least). Yet I think the torture scene still served the whole episode -- it told the audience a great deal about Kara (and, to some extend, about Roslin) and made Kara's ultimate empathy for the humanoid cylon all the more poignant.

So I agree with spg_1983's assessment of the show as

Originally posted by spg_1983

... reclaiming the genre as a legitimate meanse for expression and social commentary.

The heros of BG are not perfect; as honor and valor are part of their lives, so are sex and violence. It's not so much that "sex really happens so that means it's totally OK;" instead, why they do what they do is what's so riveting. I for one am happy that TPTB is presenting human condition as it is, not as the suger-coated version for the intellectual 13-yr olds.

**spg_1983** · 26 March 2005, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by Liebestraume

What do you mean? Don't you know Kirk had a babe on every planet?

All kidding aside, I agree with KatG's statement in general There is too much random, gratuitous sex (and violence) on TV -- "random" because they serve no apparent plot/character development purpose, other than for shock or tantalization. They also tend to be rendered in such a "tasteful" way -- showing ten layers of sheets between the characters or having a bullet hole with no blood spillage -- to further insult the viewers' intelligence. That's the kind of show I'll be embarrassed to watch in any company.

But I do think BG distinguish itself in this aspect. Take, for example, the bedroom scene in Kobol's Last Gleaming. IMHO it was not about sex but all about Kara. It lent perspective to what transpired or alluded to in prior episodes and set up the rest of this episode. Even if I overlook the obvious "ship" aspect, I learned that Kara was somewhat self-destructive, which explains her dare-devil demeanor in general and her subsequent willingness to go on Roslin's suicide mission in particular. The juxtaposition with Lee's control issues worked really well in the teaser (as well as in the whole episode). Although the camera was panning over the flesh, what it (and the misic) really built was tension, not tantalization; until Kara dropped her bomb, I was going like "whoa? is that Lee? but he is sparring with dad! what's going on?"

I am actually surprised that no one has yet commented on the violence in BG, because the only time this show made me squirm was during the interrogation in Flesh and Bone. I have seen my share of TV violence, but bare-knuckled punch as well as the sound of flesh tearing and bones cracking are still rare (for me, at least). Yet I think the torture scene still served the whole episode -- it told the audience a great deal about Kara (and, to some extend, about Roslin) and made Kara's ultimate empathy for the humanoid cylon all the more poignant.

So I agree with spg_1983's assessment of the show as The heros of BG are not perfect; as honor and valor are part of their lives, so are sex and violence. It's not so much that "sex really happens so that means it's totally OK;" instead, why they do what they do is what's so riveting. I for one am happy that TPTB is presenting human condition as it is, not as the suger-coated version for the intellectual 13-yr olds.

well sure he had a babe on every planet, but those relationships and encounters never really added to the character, where as the sex scenes on BSG, like you said, show a lot of character development and humanizing the characters. nothing strips away the masks and fronts we put up and the raw, primal energy of a sexual encounter. it is when we are at our weakest and our strongest.
you are tottaly right, the characters are not perfect, they make mistakes and those mistakes have consequences both for them and for their shipmates. when did picard ever make a mistake that endangered the entire crew in a way that couldnt be solved in the time remaining in the show? when did he or any of the crew let their humanity get in the way of the mission? almost never. yet the adamas were willing to risk the entire fleet and everyones lives to get starbuck back because they loved her, that is as real as it gets. the willingness to sacrifice everyone and everything for one life out of love.

**Unas** · 26 March 2005, 08:31 PM

I skip the first showing since I dont want to watch it with my family around. I dont care either way about the sex scenes in context of story development tho. It is quite different from other scifi shows by avoiding their episodic nature. TPTB doesnt shy away from letting their characters bleed instead of being "stunned" or dying without a visible wound.

**Lexx** · 26 March 2005, 08:58 PM

I love the bleakness of BSG. It makes it a load more realistic than a lot of other sci-fi fares, namely the Star Treks. DS9 was arguably the only "dark" Star Trek series, and that's one of the reasons why it's my favorite. The bleakness could be overwhelming if it wasn't handled properly, but I think that it's handled perfectly. Same thing with the sex. I think there's a big difference between the sex scenes on BSG and those on, say, HBO's Real Sex. The sex scenes on BSG aren't there primarily for eye candy, they're there to give an insight into the characters. In the mini-series, we saw how Baltar is a narcissistic ego-maniac by the way he slept with anything with two legs and didn't care how it affected the other person. We saw how Boomer and Tyrol were the type of people who didn't follow orders or protocol strictly, but were still respectful enough to not flaunt the way they felt in public. I watch BSG each week with my 16 year old brother, and neither of us are embarrased or made uncomfortable by the sex scenes at all. And that's pretty good, since normally I feel like killing myself if there's the least bit of sex or nudity on a t.v. show or movie we're watching together.

As for comedic scenes, I present to you Exhibit A: "No more Mr. Nice Gaius!" That line, combined with James Callis' delivery, had me in hysterics.

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'Galactica' a darker, bleaker trek into sci-fi

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