Science: Do You Believe?

[Osiris-RA]

I'm wondering on all you guy's opinions on science.

A friend of mine says she trusts what Scientists say, she believes the Big Bang theory, possibilities of life existing on Mars, all that stuff the "experts" say on the Discovery channel and Science channel about humans one day living on the moon and selective genetic breeding, robotic hybrid bugs that are really high tech security cameras that fight terrorism and all that stuff. She doesn't even have the courage to doubt the moon landing. I saw a show about the moon landing proving it was a farce. Now, I can't find a trace of the video anywhere!

What I'm wondering is - do you believe in science and it's philoshophy, or do you have more questions after you hear their side of the story?

Talk amoungst yourselves ...

[Shivan]

Science isn't a belief. It is truth. We WILL have the ability to do selective breeding. WE did land on the moon. But that doesn't mean that everything science DOES is moral or ethically right. Though ethics and morality are a completely different topic. I have my beliefs religiously but I don't discard what science has proven ever.

We can do selective breeding, but I don't agree with it whatsoever.
We can or WILL be able to clone organisms, but I don't agree with it.

[Flyboy]

See the thing about science that I love, is it doesn't (usually) ask us to believe anything that cannot be proven and demonstrated. Everything about science is pure fact, because science, by it's nature; is documentation of the world around us.

The people who think you can only belieeve in religion OR science confuse me.

Science never EVER goes deep enough to tell anybody the reason for everything happening. Ok, X might be caused by Y, but what causes Y? There is always a point where science stops dead. Even when string theory is perfected; we'll still have questions. That's where religion fits in. Religion provides the why to accompany the how.

Yes ok, I've rambled, simply,

SCIENCE RULES


Regarding the Lunar Landing, I went througha long period of doubting it, but foundthat there was a perfect answer to every problem on there bar one. And that was a minor detail; I do not doubt that the footage was doctored in some respect, and I've heard rumours that an alien presence was encountered (not moon inhabitants) and I'm more willing to believe that... There has been independent investigations which have validated the fact that we landed on the moon.

[Shivan]

Very nicely put!

[Osiris-RA]

I agree that science does prove some things and that it usually uses fact to prove things it states. But my problem with science is it's so eneffective in really helping things. While they play around in their labs with splicing animals and discarding genes, (these men of 'fact', by the way, are the same people who say that a featus is not a living being) ,what are they really accomplishing? What is the use of it all?

I don't trust what a few of my friends affectionatly call " The White Man's Medicine" . It's not effective to me. What would be the use of selective breeding? The human race is fine as it is, why jeopardize the strength of humanity as a speices?

Scientists may have helped with some medicines, some discoveries of this planet, they have helped us to understand and deduce things for ourselves, they sure help me try and discover the other side of the argument, but as far as I can see, generally, they have done nothing but mess this world up. They don't know when to stop, and frankly, a lack of morality and restraint does not make for a very 'smart' human being.

[fair_nymph]

I absolutely believe in science, and I think it is essential to our preservation as a planet. I am amazed and delighted by nearly all new science that arises.

However, I am concerned about our USE of science. Science itself is neutral, it is not inherently good or evil. It is up to us to learn to use and apply science wisely and compassionately.

Unfortunately, I sometimes doubt human nature. Science does not 'mess the world up', people do. There are many nefarious people in the world. But I do have hope that good will prevail, and that science will be on our side.

Regarding: naturalism vs science -- this is an false distinction. Medicine is medicine, and chemicals are chemicals, regardless of their source. All forms of medicine have their advantages and disadvantages. It is simply a matter of examining and understanding the basis of any treatment so that harm is minimized and benefit is maximized.

But my problem with science is it's so eneffective in really helping things. While they play around in their labs with splicing animals and discarding genes

Many valuable cures for disease have already come out of gene therapy. Regarding 'splicing animals', no such thing occurs. Furthermore, 'genes' or DNA are discarded every day, seeing as they make up all matter that is or was alive. I recommend you learn more about these topics before you criticize them so harshly.

And please, don't turn this thread into an abortion debate. No one would argue that a fetus 'isn't a living being' (note that a bacterium is also 'a living being') -- people simply argue its rights.

NOTE: If I receive negative rep for this post, I will conclude that you are unable to debate with efficacy and courtesy.

[tempusfugit]

I'm too exhausted from preparing for a physical chemistry exam today to discuss this in much detail.

First let me say that I'm not sure if the people who claim the moon landings were forged are just F****** with people or they genuinely believe it. If the latter - then: BWA HHAAAA HAH HA ha ......eeeehhhhhhhhhh heh.

If the former - stop yanking people's chains. Anyway there's umpteen different kinds of proof from the distinctive chemical composition of the rocks returned to the laser reflectors placed on the moon still being used for experiments today.

Science improves our lives in so many intellectual and practical ways it amazes me that spiritual people don't cringe in shame for obstructing progress in this arena for so many thousands of years. From Darwin to Mendel to Newton to Einstein to Morgagni and Winslow.

To even propose this position is ludicrous. I mean- the individual meaning of the words I understand but the order you put them in the sentence is totally nonsense.

[fair_nymph]

Pchem is tough stuff. One quarter was enough for me!

[Osiris-RA]

I know a lot more about science than I care to.

Half that DNA that is discarded belonged once to some innocent creature that they put on their lab table and dissected. Those kind of scientists aren't known for thier morality when it comes to another living being. I realized what I don't like about them. The fact that they would play God over everyone and everything. We might not know it, but this is more of a religious thing than we realize.

This is not an "abortion debate". Everyone knows it was scientists who determined that 'fact'. So far, scientists have not helped us. Maybe when they invent a miracle cure for diabetes, Aids, cancer after the last what, 12 dozen decades? More? Then I will take them seriously. Maybe when they stop needlessly sending rockets into space and drilling a hole in the ozone that is not being aided, then I will believe them. If they really helped us, they would tell us we didn't have to go to a docter and get the fat sucked out, that we didn't have to go to the plastic surgeon and hack off part of our flesh to look better, that all we had to do to feel better was stop eating the processed junk their compatriots in the food industry roll off the presses for us and we'd never suffer any of those weird ailments again. They won't do that. They have to make money. Our dispair is their bread and butter. They feed off of it. In a real world, we would never have heard of a twinkie or processed slice of bologna meat in our life.

Until then, They have yet to show me the use in what they are up to.

BTW, this is human science i'm talking about, not general science, light bulbs and the actual useful stuff.

[tempusfugit]

Your last post isn't coherent. Can you restate it please? I'm not sure what you're discussing.

[fair_nymph]

Big corporate science is definitely another thing altogether -- I think again this comes down to the USE of science, or in some cases, the lack of use of science.

Monied interest is by far the greatest threat to accurate and good science. Unfortunately, funds need to come from somewhere, and that somewhere likes to be reimbursed.

I don't know that there is a good solution to this problem, other than careful monitoring and a series of checks and balances, but these are not foolproof by any means.

To an extent I wished that our kind remained a primitive people, but this is simply not possible. 'Progress', industrialization, etc, is inevitable. We can only do our best to shape its course.

Maybe when they stop needlessly sending rockets into space and drilling a hole in the ozone that is not being aided, then I will believe them. If they really helped us, they would tell us we didn't have to go to a docter and get the fat sucked out, that we didn't have to go to the plastic surgeon and hack off part of our flesh to look better, that all we had to do to feel better was stop eating the processed junk their compatriots in the food industry roll off the presses for us and we'd never suffer any of those weird ailments again.

I am not aware of our ever 'needlessly' sending rockets into space. Space exploration is a necessity, as eventually our planet will no longer be able to sustain life (whether by our own hands or the natural course of our sun's life).

It's a bit harsh to say that scientists 'drill' holes into the ozone. It was/is an indirect effect. I do however greatly disapprove of all countries that are not doing everything to prevent ozone layer destruction (including the US). Also, I would say this was more due to ignorance and industrial mis-use.

Liposuction is certainly a debatable procedure but I don't think it's fair to generalize about science based on this one facet of medicine.

And junk food has little to do with scientists and even less to do with doctors, it is entirely controlled by large corporations/industry/agriculture, and it is indeed despicable. Scientists/doctors have tried to intervene on many occasions but their voices are not loud enough, or should I say, rich and powerful enough.

[tempusfugit]

Okay, now I understand a bit better. Definitely funding for science that has a commercial or political aim to justify why you should do something is suspect. But the immense value of science and technology should not be dismissed outright because of that.

Think of laser eye surgery as an example. No more need for glasses and perfect vision restored!

[Osiris-RA]

I think my problem is I tend to think of the general science department as another branch of the government. I'm kind of against the institution.

They are a large factor in the blame department, though, I will continue saying that.

[tempusfugit]

By the way, did anyone read on Slashdot that they think they discovered giant subsurface frozen oceans on Mars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fair_nymph]

Well the GOVERNMENT is evil, no doubt about that!