who are better Vulcans or Tollans?

[jfarrell327]

Hey guys, who do you think is better? Vulcans or Tollans? And who do you like better?

Me personally, I like the Vulcans better. They at least work with us and help us (at times...), meanwhile the Tollans just criticize us and call us too primitive. The Vulcans also criticize us, more so in Star Trek: Enterprise than the other series, but I just want your opinions on who you like better.

I also want to know who you think is more advanced? I think the Vulcans are more advanced and more intelligent... They have warp capability meanwhile the Tollans, as far as we know don't possess hyperspace travel, (warp equivalent, I guess...) we know that from Enigma. Vulcans are also big galactic players, Tollans are not, not even close...

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

You can't really compare their roles in the galaxy. It's a completely different setup. The big galactic players in Stargate tend to be the race that rules the galaxy. If Stargate had the same setup as Star Trek, a Federation of planets and various empires that rule over regions of space then maybe the Tollans could have been on the same kind of level as Earth or Vulcan. We'll never know for sure

How are you deciding which is better? Is it just the speed of the ships? The pointiness of the ears? The Tollans did have some very advanced technology. They could walk through walls And the weapon suppression device that disabled all weapons, the Asgard version didn't work on projectile weapons. So does that mean the Tollans were more advanced than the Asgard?

[escyos]

Tollans. Vulcans are soooooooo boring. Logic this and temples to logic that (or something conflicting there abouts)

[thekillman]

Me personally, I like the Vulcans better. They at least work with us and help us (at times...), meanwhile the Tollans just criticize us and call us too primitive.

the tollan had every right to

[blueray]

Vulcans! I feel like for the most part they are great allies and founding members of the federation. The Tollans on the other hand seem to only care about themselves. As for technology they are probably similar but I still have more faith in the Vulcans.

[jelgate]

Vulcans! I feel like for the most part they are great allies and founding members of the federation. The Tollans on the other hand seem to only care about themselves. As for technology they are probably similar but I still have more faith in the Vulcans.

I disagree with that idea. They clearly did not want to see people kill themselves again. That sounds more like being selfless than selfish.

[Xaeden]

They at least work with us and help us (at times...), meanwhile the Tollans just criticize us and call us too primitive.

To be fair, if the Vulcans encountered humans while at the exact level of technological development that the Tollans did, they too would have deemed them too primitive and refused to help them [within a similar framework]. And let's not forget that humans would have similarly declared plenty of 20th century equivalent civilizations as too primitive and refused to help them (except for when the person deciding if they should be helped or not is a main character in a show we're watching).

The Stargate seemingly complicates matters as warp being the standard by which a society is judged serves not just as a way to determine whether a society is sufficiently advanced, but as a way to control and guide a species once it obtains the ability to gain access to the wider galaxy. By stepping in the way the Vulcans or the Federation did/do they can not only help a newcomer to keep from getting themselves killed as they rapidly advance into their post warp drive era, but they can steer them toward being friendly so that they are less likely to be enemies down the line. The Stargate does give societies wider access and thus comes with the same potential to get into trouble and be a force for good or evil. However, humans did not invent the Stargate and do not have the slightest clue as to how to replicate it. As such, the Vulcans would almost certainly deal with the situations by simply taking it away.

In an episode of TNG there was an alien complex that the Federation and the Romulans were in a race to control. It was created by a long dead advanced alien species and had a series of portals that led to other planets. Had that been built on Earth and humans found it, the Vulcans would think the best way to "help" the primitives who were sending people out into the galaxy before their time would be to destroy it or find a way to move it. Same if the Federation found it on a planet that contained a pre-warp society or if either of them discovered that a warp capable ship was found by a pre-warp civilization who hadn't yet figured out how to create their own warp drive.

If, before then, they got themselves into trouble by angering an alien species intent on sending ships to destroy them, sure, the Vulcans would, like the Federation, probably attempt to secretly exert some measure of military might to protect that civilization. However, there's a limit to how many ships they'd risk in such an endeavor and if they couldn't protect a pre-warp society on their own, would they give a pre-warp society advanced technology so they could try to defend themselves? Absolutely not. They would 100% let that civilization be exterminated. The Federation would do the same in theory, although because it's a TV show the crew always found some magic way to prevent that from happening and, again, the heroes of the story regularly get to break that rule without consequence.

As for the Tollans. Same situation; a fleet of Goa'uld ships was on its way to destroy Earth. Would they still hold to their rule against sharing technology? I don't know that they would. The Tollans refused Earth when there was the potential for danger at some point in the future, but that's not the same as refusing them when danger is imminent. The Tollans did not want Earth to destroy themselves by advancing too far too quickly. However, would they have taken the risk that Earth might end up destroying itself if they knew it would be destroyed in a few days if they did nothing? Again, I don't know. However, you can't say the Vulcans would do any better if they were in the same situation as the Tollans were. Your initial judgement of them was based on a completely different set of circumstances. Yes, they helped Earth, but they helped a warp capable Earth. They never would have done for Earth what the Tollans refused to do had they encountered Earth under the conditions that the Tollans had.

[thekillman]

I disagree with that idea. They clearly did not want to see people kill themselves again. That sounds more like being selfless than selfish.

Agreed. The tollan had just lived through a catatrophe and total extinction of another race, indirectly through them sharing technology. the tollan came across as jerks because the episodes were written that way, but from an objective perspective, Earth was being a huge jerk to them. "you just wiped out another species in a nigh-identical case? boo hoo give us technology".

[Peterking72]

Neither. I prefer Asgards over both.

BUT(T)...

If I have to really choose I'd go with the Vulcans, although I have to confess that I only watched the movies from Star Trek. I saw some TV episodes here and there, but I wouldn't call that extensive knowledge.
The Tollan's simply haven't featured in enough episodes to really know them either, but I would certainly say I know everything there is to know about them.

Both races judge the "primitives" by different standards. Both are extinct. Well, the Vulcans are not really extinct but came pretty close.

If Vulcans are judged by Stargate standards then they're both "good" and "bad". By bad I not only mean technology sharing on condition (warp capability), but culturally. Most Earth cultures embrace religion. To see a flourishing race almost completely devoid of religion would cause most of these cultures to question the existence of a higher power. As an Example: The Federation.
On the good side I doubt the Vulcans would give in to the Goa'ulds and build them bombs that can penetrate the iris then let themselves be destroyed in case the Goa'uld plan fails.
But neither of these would mean squat if they deemed us primitive because we don't have warp capability.
I also hate the Tollans because they completely throw out their not sharing technology that can potentially wipe a planet out doctrine when they've under Goa'uld opression. Note that just a few of those Ion cannons that become obsolete against the superior Goa'uld shields of Anubis' Hatak motherships had the potential to wipe out Earth. They also lied and told us that they're sharing them because the political changes in their Curia now allows it.
In their place I would simply evacuated to another planet or Earth while refusing the Goa'ulds. Of course going trough as many gates as possible in order to make the Goa'ulds loose track.

If we have to judge the Tollan's by Star Trek standards. Well it's even worse. They don't know what warp is, only that it's FTL travel. They probably could learn it easily. If they knew what it was they still probably wouldn't bother with us. Also Earth being in the World War 3 aftermath (If we assume that the Tollan's discover us in the same manner as the Vulcan's did) they would haul ass as soon as they see the condition of Earth. Probably thinking that we had already done what they've feared to happen if we're given their technology. Prolly wouldn't bother to consider that maybe we've learned that lesson already.

[TheFlash4]

Hard to say really, i'd say Tollans had better weapons, but they didn't really desire to travel the galaxy, and when they had to go anywhere, hey they had the convenient stargate, no need to really focus on advancing their space travel, heck, they could even build their own stargate, love to see the vulcans building tech like that.

as for looking at the lower races like earth like that, remember an earth level race caused their entire system and people to get destroyed, i'd say they were in their right to not want to share given what happened last time they did.

[Anja]

We really don't know many Tollans - some are likable, some are less likeable, but they are all a bit different and they do show emotional behaviour. The Vulcans are so over - logical!