The SGC a criminal organization?

[StargateMillennium]

It was just a thought I had that I wanted to toss around the watering hole. We all know how chaotic politics can be: a single issue can be seen in two drastically different and almost contradicting point of views. When we talk about a public stargate, we see the SGC and the SG teams being honored as heroes who saved the galaxy and protected Earth. But what if people actually see them as war criminals? They might believe that the Goa'uld invasion was a retaliatory strike for the SGC meddling in their affairs and the SGC's aim as 'liberating the galaxy' simple Earth imperialism. They might demand someone be punished for the experiment with Michael or see their issues with the wraith as cases of xenophobia.

Any thoughts? What if, thanks to some screwy politics, the SGC and the SG teams are viewed as war criminals and murderers?

[RunnerRonon]

If we compare the SGC's actions to real life military missions, there aren't really that many differences. The United States has send countless missions to other countries, to take down a dictator or protect the people of said country.
The SGC did the same thing, but with other planets instead of countries, and false gods instead of dictators. These people needed protection, and most people will understand that. Of course, there will be some people that will disagree with those missions, but they disagree with sending the military to other countries too.
That said, I don't think people will like the experiments with Michael. It is hard to explain to the general public why the SGC thought it was necessary to do this. They were technically experimenting on prisoners of war, and that is heavily frowned upon.
The issues with the Wraith can hardily be considered cases of xenophobia, because the Wraith had been slaughtering and feeding on humans for centuries. Trying to stop the Wraith from doing that is similar to trying to stop the Goa'uld from acting as false gods.

[StargateMillennium]

I'm glad you brought up comparison to real life politics. Just take the war in the Mid East for example. Some say that the soldiers there are fighting terrorists. Others say they are doing it for oil. The concepts are mutually exclusive and on opposite sides of the spectrum. I don't know where you live but in the US, an unarmed black kid got shot. Some say it was because the cop was racist, others say the kid charged the cop and got shot in a struggle.

Politics twisted what happened in both cases and we get to completely different stories but only one can be true.

Something got construed that made people believe in two drastically different things. Now, if that is applied to what the SGC does, people might think that this 'we fought to the Goa'uld to protect Earth and liberate their worshippers' to be pure propaganda.

[thekillman]

Now, if that is applied to what the SGC does, people might think that this 'we fought to the Goa'uld to protect Earth and liberate their worshippers' to be pure propaganda.

Given that for close to 10 years of operations, the SGC is almost entirely the sole supplier of information, there's not a whole lot opponents can say or do about the SGC. Hell, entire operations have been covered up (i'm pretty sure that The Other Side never made it in the books). What people informed about the SGC will think of aliens, will almost entire depend on how the SGC described said aliens, as quite a few opposing forces have been so utterly wiped out, you couldn't find fragments to analyze.

While haters would hate, and speculation may occur a lot, in the end there's not much that can be *done* to prove anything.


Now as to what aliens think of us, i'm sure 90% of the galaxy (save our closest allies and most personally known aliens) is getting pretty afraid and paranoid of us now. Not only are most aware of our secrecy, so a handful controls the actions and responsibilities of an entire planet, but we also have a monopoly on two sources of Great Race technology, numerous artefacts of immense power we won't share and a track record of annihilating all that opposed us. Doesn't matter if the enemies opposed the other races as well: most aliens must be worried right now what will happen when our needs and goals no longer align with theirs.

Not to mention that the galaxy should have -by extrapolation- a couple of dozen other Earth-like planets that similarly may be grabbing a ton of Goa'uld power, doing whatever they like and kicking anyone down who's in their way. E.g. the frozen planet may see another pristine planet, take it and kick off the inhabitants. and the Breeders from The Other Side must be itching to get to other planets -it won't take forever to dig out their nazi bunkers to ensure nothing survived-.

A galactic game is on -we've seen the LA as one of the symptoms- and the lower you are on the galactic foodchain...well extinction of your race is close.

Similar to how many in Iraq et all are longing for their pre-"freedom" days, many in the galaxy would prefer the relative safety of the Goa'uld over the perpetual uncertainty of the current situation.



NOTE: many people in Iraq and Afghanistan would go back to being under a dictator. Mostly because with people like Saddam, you could keep your mouth shut and you'd be safe. Now, stepping on a bus to do groceries is just about the most dangerous thing you could possibly do. Nowhere is safe, nowhere is sacred. Same goes for people who suffer under the constant looming drones. America's proven it doesn't care about civilians when they're not their own civilians.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Earth is pretty much the weakest of it's neighbors on the galactic stage. Unlike the real life West, it isn't really in the position to be be guilty of imperialism.

[RunnerRonon]

I never thought about how intimidating Earth must feel like to other planets in the galaxy. For the longest time, no one knew about Earth's existence, and then all of a sudden they start killing the Goa'uld, and collecting all kinds of weapons and technologies. We as viewers know most of what they did was for the greater good of the galaxy, but the SGC didn't share much of that information with people on Earth, let alone people from other planets. On the other hand, we did encounter a few other planets with incredibly advanced people, which makes me believe Earth isn't the strongest one out there, just the most vocal one. If Earth would turn evil, there would be plenty of people who could stop Earth from taking over the galaxy.

[Krisz]

As always, it depends on the point of view!

Earth's goals and ideals are not those of others in the Milky Way and Pegasus galaxies, by the sheer fact that those on other planets have lived a life the humans of the SGC can't hope to ever really understand. What may have been a well meaning act on Earth's part could be seen as a criminal act by others. What makes the Lucian Alliance or Genii any less opportunistic and idealistic than Earth in the eyes of others in their respective galaxies? Earth on occasion has dealt as harshly with those who go against what they believe is right as much as the Goa'uld and the Lucian Alliance have done; dealing with the genetic purists in 'The Other Side' is a case in point, as is destroying the Wraith's ability to feed on humans with the Hoffan drug and experiments on Michael. This is not criminal?!!!

Also, everyone got together to deal with the Ori who had a point of view followed by millions of followers that none in the Milky Way galaxy shared. It clashed with what they believed, basically the freedom to do what they feel is right for them! It can be said in the same way that following the Ori was a choice, although made by coercion in Earth's view, but did those in the Ori galaxy look at it that way? The perception of interference as a criminal act is the same whichever side it's from I guess!

[garhkal]

If we compare the SGC's actions to real life military missions, there aren't really that many differences. The United States has send countless missions to other countries, to take down a dictator or protect the people of said country.
The SGC did the same thing, but with other planets instead of countries, and false gods instead of dictators. These people needed protection, and most people will understand that. Of course, there will be some people that will disagree with those missions, but they disagree with sending the military to other countries too.

But often those missions are sent after we witness atrocities that garner international attention, which pushes public support for it.
The public knew nothing about what we do with the gate and therefore its not similar.

That said, I don't think people will like the experiments with Michael. It is hard to explain to the general public why the SGC thought it was necessary to do this. They were technically experimenting on prisoners of war, and that is heavily frowned upon.
The issues with the Wraith can hardily be considered cases of xenophobia, because the Wraith had been slaughtering and feeding on humans for centuries. Trying to stop the Wraith from doing that is similar to trying to stop the Goa'uld from acting as false gods.

While that is true, that the wraith feel they are higher on the food chain, and so humans are to them what cows are to us, may cloud a lot of minds. Plus slaughtering enemies for food in another galaxy, compared to the dozens of places here on earth people get slaughtered just for being the wrong tribe, religion etc, would imo place their crime lower on the chart.

[sueKay]

I don't think the core SGC could be classed as criminal, especially in the first few years, but I think as the programme expanded in later years and the IOA gained clout, that changed - certainly what they did to Langara in SGU was a hostile act - hijacking a friendly planet's gate knowing there was a slim chance it could destroy the planet.

Now Atlantis on the otherhand I don't think there's any doubt - definitely accidental war criminals!!

[thekillman]

I don't think the core SGC could be classed as criminal, especially in the first few years

At the end of S1 SG1 ignores a direct order. That's court martial #1 in a long line of court martials. Regardless of the actual outcomes and circumstances, it's a crime nonetheless.

[RunnerRonon]

At the end of S1 SG1 ignores a direct order. That's court martial #1 in a long line of court martials. Regardless of the actual outcomes and circumstances, it's a crime nonetheless.

I don't know about laws and how things work, but I don't see every court martial as a crime, nor do I see every normal court case a crime. The person who ignored a direct order should be able to defend themselves, and in this case it ended up being justified ignorance With things as complicated as aliens and interplanetary affairs, the standing orders aren't always the best thing to do.

[Britta]

They were ordered to commit treason by allowing the enemy to win. Disobey away! If you court-martial them, you're just giving them a forum to say "told you so!"

[thekillman]

I don't know about laws and how things work, but I don't see every court martial as a crime, nor do I see every normal court case a crime. The person who ignored a direct order should be able to defend themselves, and in this case it ended up being justified ignorance With things as complicated as aliens and interplanetary affairs, the standing orders aren't always the best thing to do.

There were always circumstances. others may wonder if the next time SG1 does something against orders, it'll work out for the best.

[garhkal]

At the end of S1 SG1 ignores a direct order. That's court martial #1 in a long line of court martials. Regardless of the actual outcomes and circumstances, it's a crime nonetheless.

If you draw it down though we had quite a few instances where the actions of the SG team(s) would have been court martials for anyone else.

[thekillman]

If you draw it down though we had quite a few instances where the actions of the SG team(s) would have been court martials for anyone else.

Precisely. Though as far as i know, being Court Martial'd is roughly equivalent to being sued. You wouldn't be convicted just yet. So you could be court martial'd and walk out with rank et all intact.

Still, there are plenty of questions regarding the integrity of the SGC, how safe it is. Numerous times, it has been compromised. Numerous times, only a small group was able to fight it back and we got saved. The security of 6 billion humans has hung by a thread.

Now, i don't think any earth humans could argue the SGC to be criminal, but i think extraterrestrial nations may think very differently. So if we're gonna get criminal charges, it's likely from an outside source.