Cheyenne Mountain Defence inadequate?

[svyper1]

Hi all,

i really like Stargate SG1 but theres 1 thing that has really bugged me which has 2 parts...

1. The defence of Cheyenne Mountain is completely umm rubbish.
2. The teams all just run into the gate and run straight when they exit.


Point 1:

Seriously the only defence in the show they have is the iris...whenever it is open it is guarded by marines right in front for the gate. Further more whenever there is incoming fire they evacuate the gateroom leaving the room completely defenceless.

Given that it is a show I wouldnt expect perfect tactics but come on the flaw is bleeding obvious...

solution (if the room is not bigger - idealy the size of the gateroom should be at least 30m to an exit...more like 100):

as it was 1994 not massively modern tech weapons were availble but still some serious gear could be used...which could be upgraded over the years.

There should be weapons platforms elevated and to the sides of the gate in a 30 degree from horizontal at front line. also on the floor in an arrow shape. 2x 20mm cannons for anything heavier and at least 2x 50 cals for infantry. An armour piercing anti tank gun (not explosive) elevated above and facing the gate.

Separate bunkers for at least 10 man guard facing from the sides.

all bunkers shielded for em and armoured

etc etc

Id feel much safer like that...

Point 2

The straight run from the gate has in more than a couple of occasions meant that incoming gate fire injured people returning and in the control room...

solution the gate is much lower than the control room and the ramp is a bit steeper and allows extraction from an angle of the gate either side.

They could have achieved this by digging deeper...creating a platform for the gate at a lower height from the control room and also heavy weaponary are at better positions...

Having the control room directly infront of the gate at that height is completely unsafe...

anyway thats my rant...

anyone else have thoughts

cheers

[Flyboy]

The military blunders of the SGC are an age old favourite topic of mine.

Having the SGC on earth AT all is a bad idea. The Earth gate should go only ONE place. An Alpha Site. Then THAT should be used for all onward operations.

[thekillman]

While i agree that some things could be better, i would like to raise a point that seems to be forgotten in these discussions.

The SGC is at the very bottom of a base dug out under a mountain. We know from 1969 that the base layout hasn't changed. It's simply not practical to redecorate in any meaningful fashion.

That being said, i agree with Flyboy that an alpha site should've been the main base of operations with a connection only back to earth, safeguarded by an identification system and the iris.

Now, i would also like to point out that none of this would work until at least after "fifth race". The whole point was that no other place but earth was remotely safe (because all other planets are controlled by the Goa'uld) and we had no means of defending ourselves. That's why the SGC's main line of defence was the iris and the second line of defence was a nuclear warhead dropped down there.

A crew with a nuclear warhead on standby, considering the circumstances, is a minimum safety precaution.

Once more options became available to us, moving the SGC offworld (especially after the "a matter of time" black hole incident) would've been the best option. Still, i'm not quite convinced that the stargate is a device you can perfectly safeguard.

As to the idea of heavy weapons in the gateroom: it won't work. the biggest trouble is that you're more likely going to shoot at all this other stuff in the room. Especially once something comes trough (which is what happens when you need those guns), cross fire and blasting the walls apart is the main concern.


In conclusion, making the SGC a safe stargate portal is not really feasible. Which is why minimizing any risk to earth is the priority and why an offworld base would've been so much better.

I would like to add that in later seasons, they at least had the decency to meet up with aliens at some random world and then be guided to the Alpha site before being routed to Earth.

[StargateMillennium]

Killman's hit the nail on the head with this one. What we want to do, what we can do, and what we actually do is determined by money and the SGC already burns through several billion dollars per year. Putting more money to redecorate would be next to impossible.

[thekillman]

Killman's hit the nail on the head with this one. What we want to do, what we can do, and what we actually do is determined by money and the SGC already burns through several billion dollars per year. Putting more money to redecorate would be next to impossible.

Well, as in real life it would simply be a case of "we redecorate in stead of [...]" where [...] is whatever you sacrifice. Like, to pay for the redeco you'd be unable to run stargate operations for a year. Which -by the way- is what happens anyway if you're changing the layout. In those first few seasons, we had the mild advantage of the Goa'uld not taking us very seriously. Staying away for a year would've cost us massively, especially in the form of throwing all previous efforts out of the window.


I would like to point out that the question is really two parts: is the way the SGC was initially run a good one, and how can we improve upon it now.

[McAvoy]

More or less that Stargate has to stay where it is, unless you want to move it somewhere else on Earth than you can come up with elaborate defenses. Redecorating would hamper offworld operations as the Gate would have to still be in operation even if to just one site. It has to stay in that room as it has a shaft leading up to the surface.

Te best way is have SGC offworld as that minimizes the risk to Earth.

[Mnikolic]

The best solution is to make a space-based SG base with bits of Asgard, Jaffa, Ori and Ancients tech. Earth is off the hook, and if the space base comes under attack - that's what the "with-a-push-of-a-single-button" self destruct is for.

[svyper1]

well yes i agree that an off world base would be ideal, however this would not have able to be done till SG operations has been fully established...

theres no point of a base if you cant defend it...

Strategically speaking you want to advance when you are sure you can defend the position as you will stretch your forces too thin (or inadequate forces are placed).

secondly even if there was an off world SG base of operations, that makes no difference of earth being a target. Further more without any stargate on earth the off world base would be cut off and so completely pointless...

as for space station base thing well what would be the point if an attack came and no humans could leave earth?...

Whether there is an off world base or not earth must have a stargate and a proper defence must be formed.

[hedwig]

I"m wondering where this offworld base would be located that people are talking about? Wherever that might be, it would not have access to earth unless earth had a stargate. And if it didn't, then how would earth be able to defend itself? After all, enough System Lords knew about earth. They aren't going to be pay too much attention to an offworld base if they could destroy earth because it had no defense because the defense was somewhere too far away to be of any use to earth.

[LionHamster]

Why didn't they put the Stargate on the prometheus or a x-303

[blueray]

They would have had to pick a planet that has it's own gate, that is uninhabited and unknown to the Go-ald, which would be hard to find. They also would then require all crew to not see their families unless already planned and live off world. Which I guess would work, as it was that way for Atlantis. And they would have had to build there base from scratch.

[hedwig]

Why didn't they put the Stargate on the prometheus or a x-303

I"m thinking they need a fixed location in space to be able to dial a stargate. And there would never be a fixed location in space with a space ship, because it's almost always moving.

[Xaeden]

Why didn't they put the Stargate on the prometheus or a x-303

The Prometheus was an X-303. I think you meant to write a 304.

Anyway, those ships were more valuable as battleships than as a command center for a Stargate program. They exist to defend earth and its interests throughout the galaxy (and later galaxies). A ship can't do both that and operate as a replacement for the SGC. As Hedwig noted, the Stargate needs to be in a relatively fixed location to operate so they would have to mostly keep the ship within one system. A Stargate can work on a ship by dropping out of hyperspace for a period of time, recalibrating the gate, and giving out the new address to anyone who you want to let dial it. However, a Stargate program cannot work under those conditions because there will be periods of time where, for example, SG teams can't dial in.

So imagine taking this hugely expensive battleship and relegating it to the role of an orbital space station when they only have one or two or a handful of ships available to them, while their enemies have hundreds of ships and their interests extend between two galaxies. Not to mention the security risk involved. If we're talking about putting a Stargate on the Prometheus pre-Asgard upgrades, okay I suppose. However, if we're talking about putting a Stargate on a ship that has Asgard shields, hyper drives, and/or beam weapons then we're asking for trouble. Those technologies are what allow Earth to get by with such a limited fleet. If one of their enemies got through the Stargate and took the ship over before they could self destruct, they could potentially replicate that technology and that would be very bad for Earth. There's always the chance that something like that can happen either in battle or through a take over when it is least expected. However, that's a necessary risk since they have to be able to operate these ships. Adding a Stargate to the mix is an additional risk that is quite unnecessary.

[LionHamster]

no they just need to be near a planet

[LionHamster]

it can, they're a defensive fleet they'll be in orbit anyway and they have the asguard beams so they can just seal the room and would u rather they just are able to circumvent the ships altogether if they can take it down they could have taken down the sgc if the gate was there and it would also stop deceases from spreading of the base