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How the Goa'uld became evil after all?

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    How the Goa'uld became evil after all?

    I recently rewatched Stargate SG-1 and the episode S04E08-The First Ones made me thinking. The basic knowledge of why the Goa'uld became evil states that they became evil from all the knowledge they inherited trough genetic memory and that every Goa'uld possesses the entire knowledge of those who came before him.

    P3X-888 is their home world where they first take hosts from the unas population. Two of the rescue team, Hawkins and Dr. Rothman became hosts to these primordial Goa'ulds. They became just as "evil" as every other people who become Goa'uld hosts despite the fact that those primordial Goa'ulds have absolutely no genetic memory besides living in a lake with their buddies.

    So you see my point. Why they are evil then? Is it a plot hole or the writers were just lazy and didn't want another story arc about Goa'uld evolution and stuff?
    Anyhow I just felt I should share this thoughts with you guys if for no other reason is to enrich the forum.

    There are too many threads out there about the same things nowadays. Makes me sad because it feels like the SG part of these forum is dying. Of course it is hard to find new stuff to talk about when there is no more new material being made so I'm happy when I find gems of information like this. I hope no one made a similar thread before so this thread doesn't become one of those boring many times repeated threads.
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    #2
    The sarcophagus doesn't help things either.
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      #3
      So you see my point. Why they are evil then? Is it a plot hole or the writers were just lazy and didn't want another story arc about Goa'uld evolution and stuff?
      It depends, it's possible some evil goa'uld went back to their homeworld and interbred with the indigenous population

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        #4
        Originally posted by thekillman View Post
        It depends, it's possible some evil goa'uld went back to their homeworld and interbred with the indigenous population
        That's not teir MO. I think the writers possibly didn't want to deviate from established concept in fear that this would confuse the average viewers.
        This reminds me of the episode: Citizen Joe: "He's right, boss. Why can't there be just one kind of bad guy, you know, the snake goes in their head, makes them evil, the end."
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          #5
          That's not teir MO. I think the writers possibly didn't want to deviate from established concept in fear that this would confuse the average viewers.
          There are plenty of goa'uld to deviate from that.

          Out of universe, yes that's the reason. Doesn't mean there can't be an in-universe one

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            #6
            Originally posted by Peterking72 View Post
            I recently rewatched Stargate SG-1 and the episode S04E08-The First Ones made me thinking. The basic knowledge of why the Goa'uld became evil states that they became evil from all the knowledge they inherited trough genetic memory and that every Goa'uld possesses the entire knowledge of those who came before him.

            P3X-888 is their home world where they first take hosts from the unas population. Two of the rescue team, Hawkins and Dr. Rothman became hosts to these primordial Goa'ulds. They became just as "evil" as every other people who become Goa'uld hosts despite the fact that those primordial Goa'ulds have absolutely no genetic memory besides living in a lake with their buddies.

            So you see my point. Why they are evil then? Is it a plot hole or the writers were just lazy and didn't want another story arc about Goa'uld evolution and stuff?
            Anyhow I just felt I should share this thoughts with you guys if for no other reason is to enrich the forum.

            There are too many threads out there about the same things nowadays. Makes me sad because it feels like the SG part of these forum is dying. Of course it is hard to find new stuff to talk about when there is no more new material being made so I'm happy when I find gems of information like this. I hope no one made a similar thread before so this thread doesn't become one of those boring many times repeated threads.
            Um, the Goa'uld are evil because of the sarcophagus and what it does to their brains. That's why Daniel turned "evil" when he was abusing it, and why the Tok'Ra don't use it.

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              #7
              Originally posted by KEK View Post
              Um, the Goa'uld are evil because of the sarcophagus and what it does to their brains. That's why Daniel turned "evil" when he was abusing it, and why the Tok'Ra don't use it.
              he meant the goa'uld on their homeworld, which would predate the use of the sarcophagus

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                #8
                If memory serves, neither of them really did anything "evil".

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                  #9
                  I think their aggressive 'seize a host' mentality, coupled with a desire to survive, explains the aggressive behaviour seen on their home world.
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                    #10
                    Stargate is full of plot holes. Blitz your way through SG-1 and Atlantis and they stand out like sore thumbs.

                    That said and putting aside the effects of sarcophagi, evil is a matter of perspective and usually boils down to extreme selfishness. In the context of a wild animal that has enormous survival value. So it's not surprising that wild goa'uld would demonstrate it.

                    Originally posted by Peterking72 View Post
                    They became just as "evil" as every other people who become Goa'uld hosts despite the fact that those primordial Goa'ulds have absolutely no genetic memory besides living in a lake with their buddies.
                    It has admittedly been a while since I've rewatched them but I can't recall any indication that a queen's ability to pass on genetic memory only evolved after they began taking human hosts. So there's no reason to believe that wild goa'uld wouldn't have genetic memory.

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                      #11
                      But that's assuming that a queen has some kind of memory to share other than the memories of living in same lake. Maybe it really is just a survival of the fittest like darth_timon said. It could also be a plot hole small enough to be filled with enough BS to just slide over it. Anyway one episode isn't gonna ruin the whole goa'uld are evil thing for me or any fan.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by darth_timon View Post
                        I think their aggressive 'seize a host' mentality, coupled with a desire to survive, explains the aggressive behaviour seen on their home world.
                        Indeed. I think that's exactly it. It's like seeing a lion attack something that has strayed into its territory. You can see it as barbaric and evil but it's just the lion protecting what's his. Primordial Goa'uld just existed based on instinct, with their genetic memory serving to help them survive on an evolutionary level. I ca imagine that they were always parasites, but possibly merely taking control of other animals or water creatures as a means to help survive predators and such.

                        The Unas on the other hand are clearly intelligent creatures. I can imagine that they are the source of the Goa'ulds true intelligence and where their tendency to steal technology comes from. Likewise their belief in their superiority would occur at the same time, since from their point of view, when they joined with an Unas they became stronger and more durable, thus allowing them to quickly become top dog in the pack.

                        Another point to make in regards to their aggressiveness in the episode is that as soon as the primordial Goa'uld took a human a as host they would have become aware that humans were enemies to the Goa'uld and were a threat... so of course it would attack.
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                          #13
                          I think it basically comes down to what darth_tom said. Their instinct is to seize a host. They steal hosts, they steal technology, they enslave people that are used as incubators for their offsprings. That's all they do. It's all about propagation.
                          The Tok'ra may actually be an evolutionary step away from those instincts. They were the first attempting a symbiotic relationship with their hosts. But they still showed signs of aggressiveness, treacherousness.

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                            #14
                            Originally posted by WavyRancheros View Post
                            They were the first attempting a symbiotic relationship with their hosts. But they still showed signs of aggressiveness, treacherousness.
                            Being a parasite or a symbiote with the goa'uld largely comes down to choice.

                            The Goa'uld saw their abilities as a sign of superiority, while the Tok'ra saw it as an opportunity for cooperation.

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                              #15
                              The difference between the Goa'uld and Tok'ra is that a Goa'uld host forces the symbiot to join with them, without actually desiring to become a host. This causes the symbiots to develop characteristics they usually wouldn't and one of them is making the host evil. The Tok'ra actually become symbiot hosts by their own will with the symbots actually agreeing with them, and this results in complete co-operation between the host and the symbiot, without the effect of the host becoming evil.

                              This is actually explained and showcased in SG-1 quite well. Sam's father Jakob willingly became a host for a symbiot. If he would loose one symbiot and forcibly take another, he would become evil - a Goa'uld.

                              At least that's how I undestood this when I last watched SG-1. Symbiots are symbiots, it's a just a question on how they're being used - by force or by will, for good or for evil.

                              Now we could also talk about how each side qualifies symbiots into groups (Tok'ra/Tau'ri), but that's for another topic.

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