Lucian Alliance, how did they get so powerful?

[Pao Numas]

I don't know if wiki is wrong but it says:

Following the collapse of the Goa'uld regime, much of their resources and technology fell into the hands of the humans whom they oppressed.

I thought that humans that were oppressed were medieval or worse. No way they could have done anything with goa'uld tech. Even earth has problems with goa'uld tech. There were a few aliens too though. Also, didn't pretty much all goa'uld ships either get destroyed or captured by jaffas or tok'ra?

Somehow lucian alliance not only commands a lot of goa'uld ships but seem to be able to improve them greatly, more than what the greatest goa'ulds (who are supposed to be a lot smarter than humans) were able to do in a very long time.

Is this just very bad writing or was there actually some intelligent reason why they became so powerful?

[akren]

It's stated in-show that the Lucian Alliance are a cadre of smugglers, mercenaries and thieves whom banded together to fill the power vacuum left by the Goa'uuld after the fall of the Third Dynasty and the defeat of the System Lords by the Tau'ri and their allies.

Judging by what Ginn said in SG:U about being taken away at gun-point some time when she was a teen and that the Alliance used terror tactics to force their families use only the crops suppleid by the alliance to survive and forced recruitment to their numbers; it seems the Alliance has been in existance in some form or another prior to the defeat of the System Lords and the fall of the Goa'uuld.

The Alliance appears to be a militaristic force, or militia group, based on rank (e.g.: First, Second, Warlord, Chief, etc) centred around clans, or groups (possibly per world, or grouping of worlds/star systems, etc et al). The first we hear or see of them in in Prometheus UnBond when Vala tried to hijack the ship to sell to Joop and his brother, who are members (bumbling ones, at that) of the Alliance; which first brings them (SG-1 & the Tau'ri) to the attention of the Alliance; following various incursions, which leads Earth to officially declaring war against the Alliance in the conclusion of 'Bounty' (S9).

By the end of S10/beginning of SG:U, they are a big enough threat to be taken credibly and are actively making trouble for Earth and the Free Jaffa Nation; culminating in their direct attack on STARGATE Command in Washington, DC in in S2 of SG:U after it was revealed that Telford had been brainwashed as a spy for the Alliance using leftover Goa'uuld brainwashing tech obtained by the Alliance.

In the intervening years, the Jaffa managed to obtain quite a fleet of ships during their emancipation from the Guuld & the seisure of Dakara - this was weakened during the Holy Cursade of the Orii, but they had built up enough of a fleet and restored some of their power (evne if their homeworld of Dakar was destroyed by the Orii) to an extent where they could and did provide a sizable fleet for the execution of Baah'l by the Tok'Ra High Council in SG: Continuum.

This said, not all worlds in the gate network were controlled by the Goa'uuld - a vast number of them where supplied from Ancient knowledge from Jack (SG-1: various eps) & later the Atlantis DB (SG:A), some were controlled by more advanced races (Tollan, Knox, Onas, Hebribanians) capable of fending off the Guuld, others flourished under the Protected Planets Treaty with the Asgard (e.g.: Galar), others were founded by Merlin during his time amongst Humans in the greater galaxy (e.g.: Vangobree, Sahaal, Camelot, etc) & some weren't of any interest to the System Lords (Pangrara) or had had their stargate's buried for so long they were forgotten about - so I would assume that some of the Alliance member worlds would of come from there?

Galactic trade also flourished after the demise of the Guuld, being much more accessible then it had been under their collective thumbs (e.g.: ep 4, S9); other may have been contracted to the Guuld as slave labour or left to their own devices so long as they didnt give the System Lords grief, or actively participated in service to the System Lords for a price (e.g.: the Ashrak).

In terms of improving Goa'uuld tech, the Alliance would be actively working to assert their dominance across the galaxy & would want to maintain and/or extend their influence on current worlds they controlled/had a stake in or worlds that interested them.

As a mostly Human bunch (it seems majority of the Alliance is Human, although some alien members do exist, e.g.: Hebrianian hybrid bounty hunter, Joop's race from 'Bounty'), they would be technologically innovative (whereas the Goa'uuld were mostly stagnant in their reign, bare those areas that caught their interest, such as Nirti's obsession with a Huak'Taur host, Baahl's constant experimentation, resourcefulness and behavioural flexibility (highly unusual for a Gaouuld; let alone system lord), Anubis' ascended knowledge or Sokar's obsession with devices of torture, for example) and actively seeking to secure dominance and spread influence for the benefit of the alliance and it's members (as stated before).

The Goa'uuld were more concerned with power & prestige and seemed happy to stick to the status qua for the most part if it obtained them what they desired (dont forget Jackosn stated that they had been living the same way for literally thousand,s if not millions, of years & that the Goa'uuld for the most part were a race of parasitic scavengers as opposed to innovators, intelligence aside).

Hope this helps!

[thekillman]

Well the short answer to me is:

An earth-like planet has many millions to billions of inhabitants. Mediaval worlds have thousands. You only need 1 other earth-like world to take Goa'uld stuff, stay out of view and accumulate power to have many thousands of soldiers and a vast empire.

[Pao Numas]

I'm just saying that I don't think goa'uld would have allowed them to exist properly during their time. LA got so powerful so quickly. Earth was lucky + it was constantly waging war against the goa'uld. Even then, it was close to impossible to do anything properly. Asgard help was required to build anything useful.

LA just somehow managed to get lots of goa'uld ships and the ability to use them properly and even improve them. Do they have better shields than ori?

Also, it doesn't seem like any earth-like planet suddenly got very advanced. It was just LA.


I originally thought they were a few individuals that had some knowledge, who then recruited and taught more primitive people left behind by the goa'uld and got them to join LA. Aside from trade/diplomatic power, they didn't really have much. But suddenly, BOOOM, they are becoming a new super enemy. They didn't even exist a while ago and then they leap thousands of years in tech just like that.

[KEK]

As a general rule, I would completely ignore anything you read in any Stargate wiki.

[Durgia]

LA just somehow managed to get lots of goa'uld ships and the ability to use them properly and even improve them. Do they have better shields than ori?

I cannot recall ever seeing them having improved shields. As far as I know they have the same Anubis version shields that the Jaffa ships do.

There were probably lots of ships around the galaxy to take hold of during the chaos of the collapse. We know they were actively seeking ships prior to the collapse and we have no idea how many they had during this time.

I originally thought they were a few individuals that had some knowledge, who then recruited and taught more primitive people left behind by the goa'uld and got them to join LA. Aside from trade/diplomatic power, they didn't really have much. But suddenly, BOOOM, they are becoming a new super enemy. They didn't even exist a while ago and then they leap thousands of years in tech just like that.

Like many groups they would have stayed mostly hidden to be under the Goa'uld radar. Once the Goa'uld were gone they could move openly and seized the opportunity.

The only reason they are a threat is we do not have enough ships and manpower without a public stargate reveal to take them on. I think each of our ships could take out 6-7 of theirs (imo), but they have dozens of motherships and hundreds of smaller ships (imo). They tend to avoid direct confrontation unless it is something very important and they are used to going under the radar. If the series had continued I would imagine a war between the Alliance and weakened Jaffa nation. Earth likely would continue to protect the Asgard protected planets and that is about it.

[thekillman]

Also, it doesn't seem like any earth-like planet suddenly got very advanced. It was just LA.

No no, i would say the LA has it's roots in 1 earthlike grabbing power. There were a couple of planets with sufficiently advanced technology, so it's not unthinkable that one planet decided to move in and start gathering goauld tech.

LA just somehow managed to get lots of goa'uld ships and the ability to use them properly and even improve them. Do they have better shields than ori?

It seems to me that unlike earth, the Lucian Alliance actually got hold of some Goa'uld industrial worlds and thus have captured the technology to make goa'uld technology.

There were probably lots of ships around the galaxy to take hold of during the chaos of the collapse. We know they were actively seeking ships prior to the collapse and we have no idea how many they had during this time.

if i recall correctly there were a few hundred ha'tak floating unmanned in space after Reckoning so i guess if the LA by then had a couple of Tel'tak to board them, they could easily acquire a small fleet.

[Durgia]

if i recall correctly there were a few hundred ha'tak floating unmanned in space after Reckoning so i guess if the LA by then had a couple of Tel'tak to board them, they could easily acquire a small fleet.

I imagine the Jaffa got all of Ba'als/Anubis's fleet after Reckoning, but other Goa'uld would have had ships scattered throughout the galaxy. By the end of the franchise's current run, I imagine they have seized some manufacturing planets as you mentioned.

[garhkal]

I'm just saying that I don't think goa'uld would have allowed them to exist properly during their time..

Perhaps they did allow them to exist as they could have been used against one another covertly.

[thekillman]

Perhaps they did allow them to exist as they could have been used against one another covertly.

Earth had little trouble keeping it's alpha etc sites safe, even though they don't fall under the Protected Planets Treaty like Earth. The galaxy is a big place.

[Pao Numas]

Earth didn't have spaceships on alpha sites. I'm saying that they were insignificant and suddenly became very powerful. Also, I don't think any earth-like world had the knowledge to build goa'uld ships. They would never allow that kind of knowledge on their controlled planets.

Anyway, Asgard are supposed to be so awesome but some random thugs create tech rivaling theirs in just a few years. One would think that lucian alliance or those who later became the alliance would have just conquerred goa'uld with their super tech.

[thekillman]

Earth didn't have spaceships on alpha sites. I'm saying that they were insignificant and suddenly became very powerful. Also, I don't think any earth-like world had the knowledge to build goa'uld ships. They would never allow that kind of knowledge on their controlled planets.

Anyway, Asgard are supposed to be so awesome but some random thugs create tech rivaling theirs in just a few years. One would think that lucian alliance or those who later became the alliance would have just conquerred goa'uld with their super tech.

i dont think they "suddenly" became very powerful. Earth went from nobody to Fifth Race with beam weapons and supershields in 10 years.

The goa'uld would have to make their ships SOMEWHERE and the blueprints have to be SOMEWHERE. The LA got access of that SOMEWHERE. They don't make the ships all by their own, just using Goa'uld industry.


The Lucian Alliance do not build tech rivalling the Asgard. The Hammond (if that's what you're referring to) likely was an incomplete ship like pretty much every other 304 we launched prematurely.

[destiny khan]

my problem is that why couldn't hammond destroy the puny goauld ships with the asgard beam weapons? the beam weapons destroy the ori ships so what is a hatak?

[jelgate]

my problem is that why couldn't hammond destroy the puny goauld ships with the asgard beam weapons? the beam weapons destroy the ori ships so what is a hatak?

Surprise attack. The Hammond was unprepared for the attack

[destiny khan]

Surprise attack. The Hammond was unprepared for the attack

hmm yeah... that could be so, the beam weapons got damaged in the surprise attack before they could raise the shield...