Rush dialing Destiny with Earth's point of origin.

[Ausfan]

Well we know that Destiny wasn't necessarily meant to be dialled from Earth, so it would make no sense to include a point of origin in the code. It's obviously a writer goof, but not one that can't be rationalized away. We just have to assume that the correlative updates changed the code to account for the change in gate.

Well, if I remember right there's the usual dialling device that the SG is hooked up to which automatically does all the stellar drift calculations (name of it escapes me now arghh) and if I remember right given the Russians had it they still had the capacity to make the Antarctica gate the primary one if they wanted, hence their reason at being a bit iffy about 'giving it up' or loaning it to help save Teal'c that time.

Point being that if that was in use it probably would have been the Antarctica gate

Do we? I don't remember that being said anywhere. Maybe destiny was locked out like Atlantis so that it could only be dialled from Earth using the earth POO until its first connection from earth - at that point it accepts a connection from anywhere else afterwards.

I also don't remember seeing or hearing anything that suggests the POO has to be on the actual planet dialling from either (though its always been done in the show until SGU).


If you ask me, the POO is just an equivalent of a number / coordinate anyway regardless of the symbol used. We know that proclarushtaonous (if thats spelt right lol) could be spelt from gate symbols, whats to say some of them are not numbers too? If you ask me the whole thing was made up as they went along..

The problem I have with using the Earth POO for the Destiny gate is that it makes POO symbols superfluous. The show portrays two stargates establishing a wormhole without supplying a correct POO. Then why the hell have SG teams been dialing with a POO symbol all these years, if the stargates can automatically detect where you are make the necessary adjustment on their own? Blah

[/rant]

edit: let's not talk about how there aren't enough unique symbols for the many points of origin, even taking into account the re-use of symbols in differing regions of space.

One thing I was curious about was whether that planet the Lucian Alliance dialled in from would have used the Earth as the point of origin code thingy as well

Added to the stellar drift is also the fact that Earth isn't just rotating around the Sun, the Sun is turn ultimately rotating around the centre of the Milky Way, so over the life span of the ships journey Earth is making some fairly major changes in location (let alone other planets)

Been a while since I watched the episode, but wasn't there some complication revolving around them getting aboard the moving Apophis ship as opposed to planet at the end of season 1 SG1 cliffhanger

In part with TV series it is always a case of some stuff being 'made up as they go along' in order to flesh out the universe of the TV series but as far as a 'code' goes, I can sort see the sense of Earth as POO, given Earth is the 'beginning' (for humanity in the series) and Destiny is the 'inbetween' journey to hook it up with 'the end', eg it is all philosophically rolled into one, if people recall the whole thing related to some kind of ascension research so this would have been

meh, all food for thought at the end of the day

[Brother Freyr]

One thing I was curious about was whether that planet the Lucian Alliance dialled in from would have used the Earth as the point of origin code thingy as well

Added to the stellar drift is also the fact that Earth isn't just rotating around the Sun, the Sun is turn ultimately rotating around the centre of the Milky Way, so over the life span of the ships journey Earth is making some fairly major changes in location (let alone other planets)

Your comment sparked a thought that makes the "earth as POO code" more plausible in my mind. Destiny is so far away from Earth, indeed the Milky Way galaxy, that it may not matter which planet dials Destiny. At that distance, beyond (who knows how many) galaxies, the Earth POO might be substitutable for "Milky Way POO". Instead of distance calculations for traveling between planets within a galaxy, or to a neighboring galaxy, we're talking about a distance calculation for traveling to distant galaxies. Or even distant galaxy clusters? I don't recall how far Destiny traveled. The point is, maybe the POO can be less exact as Destiny travels farther away.

Personally, I think the whole idea (of a point of origin being required to dial gates) ran out of fuel when the series revealed a gate network spanning the galaxy (and then other galaxies). Too many gates and too few symbols. But see? I do what I can to make it work.

[Ausfan]

Your comment sparked a thought that makes the "earth as POO code" more plausible in my mind. Destiny is so far away from Earth, indeed the Milky Way galaxy, that it may not matter which planet dials Destiny. At that distance, beyond (who knows how many) galaxies, the Earth POO might be substitutable for "Milky Way POO". Instead of distance calculations for traveling between planets within a galaxy, or to a neighboring galaxy, we're talking about a distance calculation for traveling to distant galaxies. Or even distant galaxy clusters? I don't recall how far Destiny traveled. The point is, maybe the POO can be less exact as Destiny travels farther away.

Personally, I think the whole idea (of a point of origin being required to dial gates) ran out of fuel when the series revealed a gate network spanning the galaxy (and then other galaxies). Too many gates and too few symbols. But see? I do what I can to make it work.

Yeah that's probably a good way of putting it, a "Milky Way" point of origin would make sense,

The only possible thing I actually have an "issue" with (not that you can take it too seriously) is that the SGU gates are supposed to be older, so the gates that the gate ships are seeding can only dial nearby gates because of a shorter range, eg not across the entire Galaxy that they are in. It kind of then raises the question of how with the early generation gate on Destiny they are supposed to have the technical capacity to dial as far away as Earth specifically from such a vast vast distance from either a star or when hooked up with a seed ship (and perhaps with a ZPM as well) when every time it drops out of FTL it can only dial certain nearby gates (eg blockade, when the planet they are on while re-charging in blue super giant is the only one in range of destiny).

I suppose there is a way round it, eg there is a special modification to the gate on destiny (like with the Atlantis Pegasus one that allowed for cross-galaxy travel because of the Crystal thing) or it was a that allows for the long-range dialling from the Destiny gate while the 'range' issue can be considered the fault of the seeded gates, ie if Destiny was in the Milky Way or Pegasus it would be able to reach all of the gates in the Milky Way

Lol, either way, would hate to dial all that distance only to hit that Iris thing or something

[Aesop]

Yeah that's probably a good way of putting it, a "Milky Way" point of origin would make sense,

The only possible thing I actually have an "issue" with (not that you can take it too seriously) is that the SGU gates are supposed to be older, so the gates that the gate ships are seeding can only dial nearby gates because of a shorter range, eg not across the entire Galaxy that they are in. It kind of then raises the question of how with the early generation gate on Destiny they are supposed to have the technical capacity to dial as far away as Earth specifically from such a vast vast distance from either a star or when hooked up with a seed ship (and perhaps with a ZPM as well) when every time it drops out of FTL it can only dial certain nearby gates (eg blockade, when the planet they are on while re-charging in blue super giant is the only one in range of destiny).

I suppose there is a way round it, eg there is a special modification to the gate on destiny (like with the Atlantis Pegasus one that allowed for cross-galaxy travel because of the Crystal thing) or it was a that allows for the long-range dialling from the Destiny gate while the 'range' issue can be considered the fault of the seeded gates, ie if Destiny was in the Milky Way or Pegasus it would be able to reach all of the gates in the Milky Way

Lol, either way, would hate to dial all that distance only to hit that Iris thing or something

I always thought it was some kind of plot hole that the gate on Destiny is somehow the only model in that generation that wasn't limited, but considering the nature of a nine-chevron address I suppose it makes a bit of sense.

I kind of think of the process of dialing a nine-chevron address to be like "unlocking" a Bugatti Veyron to reach it's max speed, you have to actually stop the car, insert the key into another switch near the drivers seat and turn it to lock the spoiler down and—I think—to engage a couple of other systems.

In Destiny's case, when entering a nine-chevron address into the gate, it seems akin to using a whole different phase of dialing beyond the normal sequence. So certain restraints may be bypassed, or specific power management systems may be activated in order to supply the gate with the sufficient power to dial a nine-chevron address.

If that makes any sense...

Ha, I never thought about the iris, I wonder if anybody on Destiny has a GDO? That's never mentioned, and it seems quite possible that in the frenzy of trying to evacuate Icarus Colonel Young forgot to grab the case with their GDO's.

I suppose if they didn't have any on them, they could use the communication stones to give Earth a heads up that they would be coming in and maybe arrange a precise time to dial so that everyone on the Earth side would stand down.

[Brian]

Well we know that Destiny wasn't necessarily meant to be dialled from Earth

From what I remember, the exact opposite was assumed by Rush and Eli during the pilot.

[KEK]

It was. Eli was wearing a red t-shirt at the time.

[jeremyadamson]

The nine chevron address wasnt really an address but a combination code. earth was the final "digit" so rush assumed it was the point of origin, and that is why it didnt work the first time on icarus. they had to enter the right "code" (as it was called in the pilot ep) which included earths symbol in the ninth chevron space. but it was not not meant to actually be the point of origin. another rewatch maybe in order. Dangit!

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

The nine chevron address wasnt really an address but a combination code.

I don't mean to break the mood here but according to Jo Mallozzis blog thats not right. Instead of the dialling gate aligning itselt with destinys stargate, the stargate on destiny would align / recalibrate itself with the dialling gate:

aaroNIGHTS writes: “How was a standard Stargate located at Icarus Base able to locate and dial Destiny? [...] How was it possible for a standard Stargate to make these calculations in order to connect to the Stargate aboard Destiny? How could the standard Stargate used possibly begin to know where Destiny could be?”

Answer: Given he fact that Destiny has been on the move for as long as it has, dropping in and out of FTL over the course of its lengthy journey, a MUCH greater distance than the effects of stellar drift, it’s clear that the onus on recalibrating the destination gate rests with Destiny once its particular address is dialed. While the address dialed may remain consistent the gates location is not.

[jeremyadamson]

I don't mean to break the mood here but according to Jo Mallozzis blog thats not right. Instead of the dialling gate aligning itselt with destinys stargate, the stargate on destiny would align / recalibrate itself with the dialling gate:

but if the address stays the same even though its moving then the address doesnt represent coordinates. The gate network is compared to telephones, each gate having its own set of "digits". some are similar due to where they are, but its an interconnected network of gates, which is why only one gate goes to atlantis.

Connecting to destiny is more like a cellphone call, anyone can dial it given the power, and even though the address remains the same, the ship is never going to be where it was before. That can only mean because Destiny has a subspace link and when its combination of chevrons are dialed, with the earth symbol as the point of origin, regardless of the planet you are calling from, its gate will open. but no other sequence is capable of opening the Destiny gate. from anywhere. Like a code to open a wireless router.

[Energizer_Vs_ZPM]

But who ever said that the destiny style gates used co-ordinates? - They icons on the destiny gates don't look like star constellations do they.

I'll agree that the MW gates certainly do but for all we know when they dial an 8 or 9 chevron address they switch into a different mode - eg a numerical based mode.

[jeremyadamson]

But who ever said that the destiny style gates used co-ordinates? - They icons on the destiny gates don't look like star constellations do they.

I'll agree that the MW gates certainly do but for all we know when they dial an 8 or 9 chevron address they switch into a different mode - eg a numerical based mode.

No, but they do look like grid coordinates. Anyway the gates in the milky way have a different relationship with earth than Destiny does, so the chevrons on destiny were probably not suppose to give earths position away.

[tpn]

the Point of Origin glyph for Earth also appears on other gates as a co-ordinate. If it was on the gate that Ra brought to earth, then it would originally have been a co-ordinate, not a point of origin

[Flyboy]

But who ever said that the destiny style gates used co-ordinates? - They icons on the destiny gates don't look like star constellations do they.

I'll agree that the MW gates certainly do but for all we know when they dial an 8 or 9 chevron address they switch into a different mode - eg a numerical based mode.

To be fair, the entire constellations argument fell down almost immediately in series 1 of SG1 when it became apparent that each gate had identical symbols (bar the PoO). It worked nicely in the movie when the gates were on the other side of the universe and had totally different glyphs.