The Galactica itself was the "Dying Leader"

[Ouroboros]

I just finished a rewatch of the series and I'm all but convinced that this is the actual truth behind the Pythian prophecy.

The dying leader is supposed to have a wasting disease that means she would not live to enter the new land. This fits the Battlestar to a T, as she died in the final jump that brought humanity to Earth.

Galactica was also a leader in the sense that she was the flagship, and would have lead a battle group before the exodus even. Her wasting disease was of course the metal fatigue that eventually killed her.

Galactica even "knew the truth of the Opera house" in the sense that the material version of the Opera house was the ship's CIC in the final episode where the final 5 had gathered.

I'm interested in any other parts of the dying leader prophecy that I missed that might seem to apply or not apply here. I got stuck on this fairly early on because the prophecy seemed slightly off about Roslin in that she didn't die before she landed on Earth but actually after.

[P-90_177]

I just finished a rewatch of the series and I'm all but convinced that this is the actual truth behind the Pythian prophecy.

The dying leader is supposed to have a wasting disease that means she would not live to enter the new land. This fits the Battlestar to a T, as she died in the final jump that brought humanity to Earth.

Galactica was also a leader in the sense that she was the flagship, and would have lead a battle group before the exodus even. Her wasting disease was of course the metal fatigue that eventually killed her.

Galactica even "knew the truth of the Opera house" in the sense that the material version of the Opera house was the ship's CIC in the final episode where the final 5 had gathered.

I'm interested in any other parts of the dying leader prophecy that I missed that might seem to apply or not apply here. I got stuck on this fairly early on because the prophecy seemed slightly off about Roslin in that she didn't die before she landed on Earth but actually after.

My only issue with this is HOW THE HELL DID I NOT SEE THAT!

[DigiFluid]

We did mention it in the last few weeks of BSG, I don't know how either of you missed it

Alternative possibilities for 'dying leaders who led them to Earth':

• Roslin: This much should be obvious, though it does seem to contradict the statement that the leader would not live to see the promised land. Maybe not, though, depending on how we choose to interpret "promised land."
• Anders: A leader of two resistance movements, and a 'leader' of the Cylons, who essentially did not live to see Earth.
• Kara: In a bit of topsy-turvy chronology....she led the fleet to two Earths, but had already died before doing so and may well have simply been an Angel/Messenger character a la Head Six and Head Baltar throughout Season 4.

[mr_kennedy]

It should be noted that heavy spoilers occur in this thread

We did mention it in the last few weeks of BSG, I don't know how either of you missed it

Alternative possibilities for 'dying leaders who led them to Earth':

• Roslin: This much should be obvious, though it does seem to contradict the statement that the leader would not live to see the promised land. Maybe not, though, depending on how we choose to interpret "promised land."
• Anders: A leader of two resistance movements, and a 'leader' of the Cylons, who essentially did not live to see Earth.
• Kara: In a bit of topsy-turvy chronology....she led the fleet to two Earths, but had already died before doing so and may well have simply been an Angel/Messenger character a la Head Six and Head Baltar throughout Season 4.

My problem with your Kara Theory, is that she did see the promised land, however briefly, and yeah she already died in s3, i still dont know what that was in s4? maybe that planet was some big ressurection hub? for cylons & humans alike idk. that would also explain why the ship was new, or maybe those gold cylons seen in razor (i think) were responsible for her ressurection, heh maybe it is just as simple as her being a messenger/angel...........

Anders however yeah i can see how he could fit in with the Pythian Prophecy. i dont believe anders too be the dying leader talked about in the pythian prophecy....... as he was pretty much already dead, i think he was brain dead atleast so anders was not really anders when they reached earth

Roslin fits the bill in almost every way except for the fact that she saw the promised land, again however briefly

Galactica is most definitely the dying leader and like you said it was kinda touched upon towards the end of s4

[DigiFluid]

Anders however yeah i can see how he could fit in with the Pythian Prophecy. i dont believe anders too be the dying leader talked about in the pythian prophecy....... as he was pretty much already dead, i think he was brain dead atleast so anders was not really anders when they reached earth

Yeah, Anders is a bit of a stretch I know. Especially considering I don't think the character (as one of the Five) had even been conceived of when they started writing the Pythia stuff for late Season 1 Just trying to think a little outside the box.

My problem with your Kara Theory, is that she did see the promised land, however briefly, and yeah she already died in s3, i still dont know what that was in s4?

I did say topsy-turvy chronology She died, was dead, was gone, in Season 3. Then something remarkably like her returned, and guided humanity to two Earths. So Kara herself never did see Earth, and Messenger/Angel/resurrected/whatever Kara from Season 4 guided them there.

FWIW, I do think of resurrected Kara as a being the same as (just slightly more physically present than) Head Zoe/Head Six/Head Baltar/Head Leoben (from Maelstrom)/Slick. So that certainly influences me

Roslin fits the bill in almost every way except for the fact that she saw the promised land, again however briefly

Again, I think it comes down to how we interpret 'promised land.' Yes she saw 'new Earth,' but maybe 'promised land' is more metaphorical, and means something more like 'the rebirth of humanity.' She didn't live long enough to see everyone spread out and begin living their new lives.

[P-90_177]

We did mention it in the last few weeks of BSG, I don't know how either of you missed it

Alternative possibilities for 'dying leaders who led them to Earth':

• Roslin: This much should be obvious, though it does seem to contradict the statement that the leader would not live to see the promised land. Maybe not, though, depending on how we choose to interpret "promised land."
• Anders: A leader of two resistance movements, and a 'leader' of the Cylons, who essentially did not live to see Earth.
• Kara: In a bit of topsy-turvy chronology....she led the fleet to two Earths, but had already died before doing so and may well have simply been an Angel/Messenger character a la Head Six and Head Baltar throughout Season 4.

*Raises hand* I've had booze since then.

[mr_kennedy]

I did say topsy-turvy chronology She died, was dead, was gone, in Season 3. Then something remarkably like her returned, and guided humanity to two Earths. So Kara herself never did see Earth, and Messenger/Angel/resurrected/whatever Kara from Season 4 guided them there.

FWIW, I do think of resurrected Kara as a being the same as (just slightly more physically present than) Head Zoe/Head Six/Head Baltar/Head Leoben (from Maelstrom)/Slick. So that certainly influences me

Kara wasnt really a leader of much aboard galactica tho, viper pilots yes but thats pretty much it i guess its how you look at the word leader too, like you say she did "lead" them to kobol and new earth,

Yeah with the tone of BSG this makes much more sense then earth being one big resurrection hub or the gold cylons just happening to find dead kara and bring her back to life, although both could be have easily been true, but like i said with the tone of bsg this makes more sense

Yeah, Anders is a bit of a stretch I know. Especially considering I don't think the character (as one of the Five) had even been conceived of when they started writing the Pythia stuff for late Season 1 Just trying to think a little outside the box.

Maybe too much oustide the box?

Again, I think it comes down to how we interpret 'promised land.' Yes she saw 'new Earth,' but maybe 'promised land' is more metaphorical, and means something more like 'the rebirth of humanity.' She didn't live long enough to see everyone spread out and begin living their new lives.

I guess too when you interpret the prophecy in its most literal sense they were suppose to find earth, not new earth, but ofcourse this planet turned out to be a desolate wasteland, so i guess you cant really look at the pythian prophecy in its most literal sense

and also when they found earth, no one died ....... we'll except for kara but she was already dead when they found earth and wasnt exactly dying unless you look at as she was dying in the umm maelstrom but this happened months before they found earth

[thekillman]

Actually galactica makes much more sense than Roslin or kara....


DAMN IT why didn't i see this!

[Ouroboros]

We did mention it in the last few weeks of BSG, I don't know how either of you missed it

I remember I wasn't really posting in any bsg forums when I was actively watching the show so that's probably how I missed it.

Here's another much grimer one.

Kara Thrace is/was the harbinger of death who led them to their end because most everyone from the fleet that landed on Earth died thanks to the life a brutal hardship that comes with choosing to live in the stone age.

They were so swept away in this rush of euphoria at finding Earth that they hastily and foolishly threw away the ships that had already saved their lives countless times in the past and they paid for it. They paid for it because they also threw away the lessons of their journey and fell back on their old flaws now that they were safe. Rather than learn the lesson from the Cylons who'd they'd come to eventually accept as friends, or even the ships themselves, that just because something is technological doesn't mean it is evil, they chose to fall back on their old ignorant ways, once again used technology as a evil scapegoat for all their life's miseries, and burned all of it in a hope to be rid of them forever.

They paid for failing to learn their lesson by a long drawn out arduous life as hapless modern people trying to live like cavemen, succumbing one by one to disease, starvation, predation, malnutrition or any one of a million other things that made people who lived in the stone age not live for particularly long.

Those few who survived long enough eventually had children who mixed with the native cavemen but their identiy as a culture was diluted to the point of annihilation and all memory of them forgotten.

In the end they were not worthy of survival.

[min min light]

I always thought Kara was the harbinger of the death of the Cylons, since they lost their resurrection ship.

I love the Galactica Leader theory - nice!

[thekillman]

Here's another much grimmer one.

yea i thought of that too. Especially since the girl hundreds of people died for, died in her twenties or so. Apparently the only reason most of S4 happened is so one girl can have birth and then die soon after.

I love all of BSG except for the final 10 or so minutes. the "giving up technology" thing absolutely makes NO sense and the end only hints at the idea that the next cycle is starting and it only got hugely delayed. What's worst is that the Angels think it's gonna be over when the symptoms of a typical cycle start showing again.


They could've ended the cycle by accepting that Cylons are sentient beings with rights, which is roughly what every cylon war so far has been about: that the makers do not see their robotic servants as real beings and that these robots rise up because of it, returning the favor by not seeing their makers as real beings and just eradicating them.

[maneth]

Interesting theory... The only problem I see with it is that Galactica isn't sentient and didn't make any decisions. But it's certainly the tool and the means for the rag tag fleet to survive...

[themeatcleaver]

Anders was also the leader of the Caprican Pyramid team wasnt he? =D

[Ouroboros]

yea i thought of that too. Especially since the girl hundreds of people died for, died in her twenties or so. Apparently the only reason most of S4 happened is so one girl can have birth and then die soon after.

I love all of BSG except for the final 10 or so minutes. the "giving up technology" thing absolutely makes NO sense and the end only hints at the idea that the next cycle is starting and it only got hugely delayed. What's worst is that the Angels think it's gonna be over when the symptoms of a typical cycle start showing again.


They could've ended the cycle by accepting that Cylons are sentient beings with rights, which is roughly what every cylon war so far has been about: that the makers do not see their robotic servants as real beings and that these robots rise up because of it, returning the favor by not seeing their makers as real beings and just eradicating them.

I see this as the reason why the Kobalians failed as well. They sent the Cylons they made off in exile as the thirteenth tribe rather than learn to live with them. The rejection of ALL technology as the root of evil just takes it to an even more excessive and absurd level. This is especially true when you examine the reasons why the Cylons behaved so abominably at first. It had nothing to do with their technological nature, but rather with the human like traits, emotions and ideas they'd acquired.

Interesting theory... The only problem I see with it is that Galactica isn't sentient and didn't make any decisions. But it's certainly the tool and the means for the rag tag fleet to survive...

The prophecy never actually mentioned anything about the leader making any decisions as best as I can remember.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

The problem I've had for any of the explanations for Kara being the Harbinger of Death is that in the case of either being cross bread out of existence by mingling with the cylons or dying from the elements due to lack of technology, neither of them were her call of her fault. Why weren't Lee or Bill Adama the Harbingers of Death?

Plus I got the impression we were supposed to think the idea of giving up technology was a good thing.