Radio Times - The Hunt for Doctor Who

[cosmichobo]

Not that I think anyone here is about to do so, but... if you've ever thought about ringing tv stations/etc in foreign lands asking about Missing Who... PLEASE DON'T.

The man who just uncovered Web of Fear and Enemy of the World found them at a tv station in Nigeria. That we know. The way he found them was to go into these countries offering a free cataloging service. Go through all your archives and catalogue them properly... And of course, any material identified as belonging to someone else, he will return to them...

Does he make money from that "returned" material (ie Doctor Who eps) - well we can assume the answer is yes... thus paying his expenses, as he doesn't charge the Archive owner.
(Perhaps the only situation where the BBC will pay for missing eps, as usually they will not; quite possibly they have a pre-arranged agreement...)

So, If you go calling everyone over there saying OH MY GOD DO YOU KNOW WHAT A MISSING EP OF WHO IS WORTH???? then literally it could endanger lives as the Archivists start to doubt the arrangements they may have made with cataloguers...

If you want to put your Indiana Jones hat on, first talk to the experts and see how you can help.

[cosmichobo]

Just another interesting anecdote from another Aussie...

He was buying the bare bones release of The Enemy of the World at his local ABC Shop, and made the comment to the lady behind the counter that he

hoped there would be more of the old episodes soon. Salesperson, without any further prompting, said "Oh yes, there's about a hundred to come!"

Again... it could be complete miss-interpretation... Maybe she was just referring to the fact there are so many old episodes of Doctor Who, and has no idea that the series officially saw its last complete DVD release with TofZygons... Or, as I think is now of course obvious... There's 100 missing episodes about to be released!!! /end hoax hype.

[cosmichobo]

"OMNI RUMOUR" UPDATE

Last year a rumour about Doctor Who's then 106 Missing Episodes emerged that claimed that every one of them had been found in Africa.

This rumour was obliquely strengthened when Enemy of the World and Web of Fear were declared recovered by the BBC thanks to a guy called Phil Morris of the TIEA. Well, the other day Phil did an interview online with fans asking the questions. Obviously, the Q was asked as to whether he's found more. And his answer was -

[quote]A tricky one to answer

And fans will just want a yes or no haven't you or have you. But it's complex all I can say is the wind is blowing the right way be patient. I don't wish to jeopardise the ongoing project in any way .And feel the fans of all lost tv will be very happy with the outcome.[\quote]

Along with other comments, the mood amongst Missing Episode desperadoes is highly elated, though Phil did say there was nothing in the immediate future...

I've only known of the Missing Episodes since about 1988... In that time there's been plenty of rumours about hoarders and recoveries that never eventuated, the occasional miracle, but to imagine "every" story being recovered, seems so incredibly absurd, yet somehow suddenly so possible...

[rushy]

I may be a bit cynical, but I think it's impossible for every one of them to be recovered. Not ALL of them could possibly have survived the BBC's junking. I wouldn't be surprised if there wouldn't be any more left. We've already been lucky as hell.

[cosmichobo]

The past couple of years have been very interesting for the Missing Episodes...

First 2011 saw the return of 2 randoms, Airlock (Galaxy 4), and Underwater Menace 2 (still awaiting DVD release, with nothing on the schedule, but available via other methods thanks to some kind (probably now jobless) soul at the BBC).

That event sparked this thread, with Radio Times attempting to put the word out - Look in your grandpa's attic!

Then we had this omni rumour... which is still very much alive... during which we have actually had 9 missing episodes uncovered in one hit - the largest single recovery since the search began!#

Now, yes, it's entirely possible that that's it - no more... We got to the bottom of the barrel, and there was some nice sediment settled at the bottom, and now it's recons/animes or nothing...

But... the other way to look at it is... we've had 11 missing episodes covered between 2011 and 2013... and the source of 2011's massive haul basically refusing to say he doesn't have any more... though also refusing to say he does...

Believe me, I'm more a half empty than a half full kind of person... but I don't think the story has ended on this just yet...

I do doubt WHO will ever be 100% represented in the archives. At very least, The Feast of Steven is gone for good, but logic dictates that the eps found in Nigeria should not have been there... So - who knows...

# Ok, they probably had bigger single recoveries in the early days of the search, obtaining bulk shipments from o/seas broadcasters... But nothing like this for decades!

[rushy]

Well if he has more, why would he keep them instead of give to someone who could restore them?

[cosmichobo]

Well if he has more, why would he keep them instead of give to someone who could restore them?

The factors involved, from what I understand...

1. The episode/s may still be residing in a foreign archive. If news goes public, then the archive owner may change their minds, and deny access, or attempt to extort money for the episode/s.

2. They may have people working in dangerous areas, and are awaiting for them to be in a safe area before any press conferences are held announcing that TIEA have uncovered cultural relics that ultimately are going to generate $$$$$$ for the BBC...

3. TIEA have their own "restoration team", as part of their service is to restore and digitise film/etc. As such, one of the big rumours is that TIEA are in fact working on the restoration of the episodes themselves. From a negotiation point of view, this would be "good" for the BBC, as they have always taken the stance that they wont ever pay $$$ for the return of their own intellectual property... But if the prints are returned to them fully restored and digitised, then the BBC can say they were just paying for that service, rather than paying for the actual material... saving face...

Phil (of TIEA) is certainly dancing an interesting line here... and yes, the thought that he may be "hoarding" episodes is being discussed around the web, and as such he potentially faces the chance of being branded an "Ian Levine"*... but hopefully he is keeping an open honest dialogue with the BBC, even if us fans are kept in the dark for a while...

* Ian Levine be praised, because he was the guy who first found out that WHO was being destroyed, and helped to stop it happening.... BUT he later "held on" to a missing episode, which he claimed was so he could bargain with a private collector if needed in order to obtain a "better" story.

[rushy]

What episode was it?
(Trading missing episodes? LOL)

[cosmichobo]

What episode was it?
(Trading missing episodes? LOL)

I believe it was an ep/s of The War Machines... Supposedly the people at the BBC knew about it...

Certainly in the 70s, there were people trading episodes... But I'm pretty sure none of them ultimately were/are now missing.

To a greater degree, but less interest with regards to missing eps, people also traded copies of incomplete stories that were a long way from making it to VHS... (I myself paid a guy from the US for a copy of Tenth Planet 1-3 and The Ice Warriors long before they were released.)

[cosmichobo]

Just wanted to add another little update... Even though there isn't really much to update.

Fans keep citing the cancellation of The Underwater Menace (1 and 4) animations as a sign that they have recovered the missing episodes of that story - thus no animation, as they have the real thing... Just, for reasons above and god knows what else, they aren't making this news public.

This theory seems to then become the keystone to the omni rumour... If they've found the other 2 eps of TUM, then naturally they've found 90 other missing stories... (!?)

To be frank, this seems incredibly unlikely, as there was quite a difference in the countries that purchased Hartnell's era, Vs those that purchased Troughton's... Thus, it's hard to believe basically that missing eps from the first 3 seasons, would have come to be located in the same location as the 4-6 seasons...

Of course, Phil from TIAE hasn't just visited 1 location... he's been all over the world cataloguing film archives... So... maybe the "find" wasn't 1 find, but in fact several, in different countries... Or, they've simply all come together due to the distribution channels used...

The main thing here is... Don't lose faith... But also - keep checking grandpa's attic!

[cosmichobo]

And another 6 months on, the Omni Rumour refuses to die, with claims by some that there has been screenings of missing episodes, and that the BBC will ultimately come clean to at least 40/ish episodes, with DVD releases to follow slowly as restoration allows.

Or of course, it's a load of dingoes kidneys....

[rushy]

Maybe they're holding up for the 10th anniversary celebrations...? Hey, I can hope.
But really, yeah, there's literally nothing to gain by keeping it a secret. If they had the episodes, they would spill them just like they did with The Web Of Fear and The Enemy Of The World.

[cosmichobo]

The "explanation" people offer is that perhaps the episodes are still in a legal tangle... and/or potentially not yet in the BBC or TIEA's hands - still in foreign archives...

Of course, that just feeds the rumour...

[cosmichobo]

Interestingly, at an upcoming con event (don't ask me which; I live in Australia so these things mean little to me), they are having both Sue-what's-her-name - the BBC Archives lass who stopped the junking of episodes in the late 70s, AND Phil "I found 2 near complete Troughton stories" Morris from TIEA appear to tell their stories and answer Q's...

It instantly made me think - UPCOMING ANNOUNCEMENT! But, maybe I'm just reading too much into it.

[rushy]

Oh please be Marco Polo... pretty please...