303 and 304 Building Logistics.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

agin i will agree with you on the above pic.
how ever we do not know the distance between the S.F.'s and the Prommie nor do we know the height of either of the S.F.'s.

therefore those windows could be anywhere from 4 ft tall x 2 feet wide to 8 ft tall x 6 ft wide.

I just rewatched that ep and as far as i can tell there are between 16-19 decks

at 8-10 feet per deck plus atleast 1 ft between decks for wiring, ventilation and such, plus 1 ft armor for outer hull that gives us the following

if 16 decks: 145ft(44.2m) - 177ft(54m) tall

if 17 decks: 154ft(47m) - 188ft(57.3m) tall

if 18 decks: 163ft(49.7m) - 199ft(60.7m) tall

if 19 decks: 182ft(55.5m) - 210ft(64m) tall

now you can pic from any of those sizes you want and thenuse those measurements to extrapolate the length and width of the prommie.

as the prommie looks to be 2-3 times as long as it is wide then the prommie is between

if 2 times: 290ft(88.4m) - 420ft(128m) long

if 3 times: 335ft(132.6m) - 630ft(192m) long


Personnally i am more inclined to go with the latter than the former as the 630ft(192m) actually fits the size of a US cruiser type naval vessel

[McAvoy]

Actually the SFs have nothing to do with the Prometheus. The windows and the fact that there are what appears to be four decks (each with their own set of windows) can give you a very good indication of how large the Prometheus is.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

look at the calculations i put up.

[McAvoy]

look at the calculations i put up.

It's rough guess. But you can actually do abit better. Use the measurements from the four decks, then use that to measure the width and length.

Last time I did this, I got somewhere between 330 to 450 meters.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

again what you are measuring with is perspective and the cg scaling.

what i am using is basic military ship building.

most modern naval vessels have decks that are between 8 -10 feet tall that does not include the 6 inches - 1 foot between decks. so my calculations are pretty accurate. with the only difference being that it seems that on the prommie there are crawl spaces between the decks of about 2.5 feet in height. so at the most it should be a little over 200m in length.

and if you care to properly state your case i would like to know the so called mesurements that you used. because in that pic that you posted i count no less than 8 decks of 8-10 feet each.

the decks i circled in redPrometheus06.jpg



most windows are about 4.5 feet tall and about 2.5 to 3 feet wide. they sit about 1.5 - 2 feet up on the wall from the floor and usually have another 1.5- 2 feet of wall above them. architects place them in this way to ensure that the window is centered on the wall for maximum allowed entry of light from the outside. this is one of the ways that i come to my basic measurements on decks between 8 -10 feet.

[McAvoy]

again what you are measuring with is perspective and the cg scaling.

what i am using is basic military ship building.

most modern naval vessels have decks that are between 8 -10 feet tall that does not include the 6 inches - 1 foot between decks. so my calculations are pretty accurate. with the only difference being that it seems that on the prommie there are crawl spaces between the decks of about 2.5 feet in height. so at the most it should be a little over 200m in length.

and if you care to properly state your case i would like to know the so called mesurements that you used

I am not using perspective. I am using exactly what I said: deck heights using windows

Here is something I made a year ago to prove a point about a 200 meter Prometheus:




I did a quick comparison last year between the 375 meter Prometheus and the Nimitz. Basically 375 meters is in between the minimum 330 meter length so that a 302 can fit inside the hanger pod (and other possible hanger locations) and 450 meter length from a scene in Ethon where a 302 flies out with plenty of room. 375 meter length also fits nicely with the deck thickness.

195 meter length is from Wiki and I have no clue how they got it. It makes no sense because a 302 wouldn't fit inside those pods or the original hanger at the base of the super structure.

Nimitz class has a overall length of 330 meters or 1,080 feet. I scanned the picture from Friedman's US Carriers.

When it comes to the hanger or any hanger for that matter. There has to be enough room for the 302s to move around. Reason why is if they are literally set up in a row, then what happens if the very first 302 breaks? Now you just bottlenecked the whole hanger and the remaining 302s cannot get out since the broken 302 is blocking the way.

A 200 meter Prometheus makes sense in that it's a good size for a limited resource Earth, but makes no sense when it comes to visuals and physical structures on the CGI.

Yeah we could ignore it all and keep to the 195 meter length.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

the thing is that both ALX and I hve actually done 3d cg models of both the prommie and the Daedy and the scales that we use are correct.

the reason for this is that the hangars on the prommie actually extend into the main section of the ship.

what the pods actually are is just the "runway" portion of the hangars. and the hyper drive exhaust ports at the back

[McAvoy]

the thing is that both ALX and I hve actually done 3d cg models of both the prommie and the Daedy and the scales that we use are correct.

the reason for this is that the hangars on the prommie actually extend into the main section of the ship.

what the pods actually are is just the "runway" portion of the hangars. and the hyper drive exhaust ports at the back

No. Because if you look very carefully the the connections to the hanger pods they are too small for a 302 to fit through them. They appear to be at least half as tall as the hanger pods. The 302 cannot fit through them if the Prometheus was 200 meters.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

how tall is a 302?

its 22ft or 7m

how ever instead of contuing arguing ill meet you half way at 260m


i know for a fact it cant be much larger than that as a carrier that i am currently modeling is 426m long and is 219m wide has 300 fighters and the fighters have a wing span of 11 m

it also carries 6 drop ships that are 21 meters wide.

[McAvoy]

how tall is a 302?

its 22ft or 7m

how ever instead of contuing arguing ill meet you half way at 260m


i know for a fact it cant be much larger than that as a carrier that i am currently modeling is 426m long and is 219m wide has 300 fighters and the fighters have a wing span of 11 m

it also carries 6 drop ships that are 21 meters wide.

I made a new one. The small smudge is an F-14. At 260 meters, the Prometheus is barely large enough to fit an F-302 through the hanger pod and not much else. You keep forgetting that F-302s have to be worked on when not flying. The people who maintain the the 302s need workshops relatively close by and room to move around the craft especially when removing parts off it such as a damaged wing, canopy, engines etc. That is why I am advocating 375 meters. The hanger pods have to be large enough to be used exactly as what they are: hanger maintaince bays.



I have no idea what or how your ship would be setup to have 300 craft. Keep in mind, that carriers use their flight deck to part at leats half of the planes on there where there is air. In space all fighters and support craft have to be maintainced and parked inside the ship. It would also face the same logistical issues as I described above not to mention other issues such as organization.

Regardless, you have to remember the Prometheus has small hangers for the relative size of her. The majority of her bulk is not as a carrier but as a cruiser. So if your carrier has the majority of her mass taken up by wide open hanger spaces, then I can see it.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

actually carriers only park about 1/4 th of thier aircraft on the flight deck

and now that i take the time to really look at the 375m prommie compare to the nimitz class carrier at that size you should be able to fit a lot more 302's on the prommie.

the reason that i say this is if you actully overlay the hangar bay from the prommie onto the nimitz class carrier the prommies hangar bay is taller than the carrier.

the f14 is larger in length at 75 feet long that is 7 feet longer than the wingspan of the 302 and whn an f 14 wings are swept back for storage they still span aproximately 35-40 fee which is still larger than the 302 is long.

therefore your concepts are flawed. if you are going to make size comparisons between 2 vessels and 2 of the aircraft aboard them please do your home work on the ones that actually exist before you start to spout off.

My landlord is a former navy weapons specialist who severd aboard the USS Carl Vinson, a Nimitz class carrier so I think that he would know what he is talking about.

[McAvoy]

actually carriers only park about 1/4 th of thier aircraft on the flight deck

and now that i take the time to really look at the 375m prommie compare to the nimitz class carrier at that size you should be able to fit a lot more 302's on the prommie.

the reason that i say this is if you actully overlay the hangar bay from the prommie onto the nimitz class carrier the prommies hangar bay is taller than the carrier.

the f14 is larger in length at 75 feet long that is 7 feet longer than the wingspan of the 302 and whn an f 14 wings are swept back for storage they still span aproximately 35-40 fee which is still larger than the 302 is long.

therefore your concepts are flawed. if you are going to make size comparisons between 2 vessels and 2 of the aircraft aboard them please do your home work on the ones that actually exist before you start to spout off.

My landlord is a former navy weapons specialist who severd aboard the USS Carl Vinson, a Nimitz class carrier so I think that he would know what he is talking about.

Before you start correcting me understand this: I was in the Navy. I was an AME which is a Aviation Structural Mechanic Egress Systems. I served for eight years with two squadrons. VF-143 which which had F-14Bs which transitioned in 2005 to F/A-18E. I then went to VFA-213 which had F/A-18F. I have done three deployments on on the USS George Washington in 2004, USS Dwight D. Eisenhower in 2006-2007 and then USS Theodore Roosevelt in 2008-2009. All three deployments I spent between 12 to 15 hours on the fight deck and when not in flight ops I fixed the planes. I also have been on the USS Enterprise, USS John F. Kennedy and USS George Bush. I was a qualified Troubleshooter and Final Checker for F-14 and the F/A-18E/F plus did stint as a Plane Captain for the F-14B.

Am i qualified for you enough? I AM telling you how it is. He is a weapon specialist. Unless that he is talking about an Ordie, than he doesn't know anything about Flight Ops on a flight deck. Sorry to burst your bubble.

A Nimiz class carrier's hanger is 25 feet tall. That has no bearing on how many planes it can carry. We have not been hanging planes from the ceiling off of a carrier's hanger since WW2. It is the floor space. Those hanger pods have to be wide enough for the 302s be moved around.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

he was the one in charge of the planes ordinance load outs on the flight deck.

and just out of curiosity do you recall how many 302s the prommie carried?

[Princess Awinita]

We know that SGC had mining operations offworld which isn't a problem. The problem is how that ore got to the building sites of the 303 and 304. Cheyenne Mountain isn't exactly a place where it would allow a smooth flow of ore, processed or not to those building sites. Look at the hallways, they are narrow and the elevators we have seen are small. Presumably we could say there are larger elevators for this type of thing.

However, 303 and 304s are much larger than any wiki figure. 303 is between 370 to 450 meters long and 304 as long as 600 meters long. Both much larger overall than a Nimitz class carrier. If this ore came through the Stargate and even if they had a way of transporting the ore quickly, it would use alot of time with the gate being active in conjunction with other normal offworld operations.

The other thing too is the 303. It seems the 303 was built rather quickly. I mean obviously the 303 is after the failed 301 project, and presumably the 302 Project was either first or same time authorized as the 303 Project. Which means, the 303 was designed and built rather quickly.

My theory is that systems were designed and built as needed and resources were stocked up until enough technology was gathered and reverse engineered that a ship could be built.

The other thing too is where the 303 and presumably the 304s are built. The hanger where the 303 was built is several hundred feet underground so how did they dig all of that out without anyone knowing about something was going on in that area? The 303 hanger is also too small for the 304, but I guess they could have expanded upon it. It also seems that multiple 304s are built at the same time in a short amount of time as well. Which means more underground hangers had to built.

Thoughts?

Well lets see, the mining operations may have been through the stargate, but that limited every connection to 38 minutes per gate activation. therefore just using the stargate to transport mined matrials would have been too slow, so, thought here, using stolen or given Ha'taks as mining transports the needed supplies and matrials could have been shipped to the site, or to the offworld planet required to ship to Earth, then there are the ground transport logistics to worry about as well. People might notice if trucks were going down a set road if it were for construction of some kind. Unless it was all on a muilitary base like A51 or similar. Then everyone would be none the wiser.

But now let us look at the matrials in question, Steel yes, we know of that, but trinum, why is that ? Why not use titanium battleplate instead ? why some sort of rock that has to be melted down into a steel like alloy ? Titainum is normally easier to come by and most of the planets with the trinium are war zones or in contested space.

Don't get me wrong but the idea of such needed matrials, and also the people to put just one of these ships together, think of the costs, and the required skills, you'd need eletrical engineers, plumbers, computer techs, floorers, painters, the list goes on. And that's just to make a sing 304.

I'll shut up now, I just wanted to say that bit. personally this thread is a good read though.

[McAvoy]

he was the one in charge of the planes ordinance load outs on the flight deck.

and just out of curiosity do you recall how many 302s the prommie carried?

Did he bring up the oridance up to the flight deck or did he actually put the weapons on the planes?

Eight, but I have no idea where that number came from.

[thekillman]

why some sort of rock that has to be melted down into a steel like alloy

because that's how 80% or so of all metals are made?

Steel yes, we know of that, but trinum, why is that ? Why not use titanium battleplate instead ?

Because a hair-sized piece of trinium, by the 100x stronger and 100x lighter line Carter said, would be the equivalent of a, what, 1m thick cable of titanium?

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

@ MvAvoy: Both from what i understand

and that would make 4 304s per bay. Right?

[McAvoy]

@ MvAvoy: Both from what i understand

and that would make 4 304s per bay. Right?

He wouldn't have loaded the weapons onto the plane. That is a jobs of the squadrons AOs. If he brought them up then he was the one assembling (safety precautions) and then brought them up for the squadrons to load their planes with them. He could have been a squadron AO who was sent there on TAD (temporary assigned duty), but he would have never assembled the weapons.


Prometheus isn't large enough to carry 304s...


I guess. Problem is the only time I can think of is that can confirm how many the Prometheuswould carry is in Season 9 Ethon. The same one where she was destroyed.

[McAvoy]

Ok. The Prometheus is obviously a new CGI model. The reason why I say this is because the model is far more detailed, but also has added... stuff it to.

Anyway, the hanger pods are very different. The original had thick walls and was more sqaure in cross section than the new one. In addition it looks to be a little larger.

I counted five 302s coming out of the starboard hanger pod.

Prometheus34.jpg

In this episode the Prometheus appears much larger than the older CGI model, which is where my upper limit of 450 meters came from.

[Cmdr. Setsuna F. Seyei]

yeah i do agree with you. it is most definately larger than it should be. But there is really no point in arguing about the size of it as the frakking writers didnt know what they were doing and the cgi guys were always screwing things up too.