Nitpicking: Voyager's Battle Damage throughout the Series.

[Tyjos]

Ok, here's a good challenge for Nitpickers and those who've watched the series.


Just how much damage has Voyager Endured throughout it's 7 year voyage through the Delta Quadrent? And what systems have been damaged the most during it's battles?

One more thing to speculate on here:

If Voyager in a heavily damaged state had pulled into Utopia Planitia [say Voyager from "Year of Hell"] Just how long would it take to repair it?

I've always noticed during battles the power system on voyager takes a hell of a beating, lots of EPS Conduits get blown out -but that seems to be a standard thing on Federation vessels in combat leading to deaths caused by exploding consoles-

[knowles2]

It hard to tell what systems would be damage the most, probably the shield emitters But Voyage also incorporated a few alien systems during her journey through the Delta Quandrant, Borg, the sensors it got when she was trap in chaotic space, a much more energy efficient replicator s probably others that I have forgotten.

An if past federation ships are anything to go buy, Voyager probably has a service life of between 50 and 70 years. The new carriers the British and US are building are all predicted to be operation after 50 year. So she was probably built to survive a battering.

Year of hell damage would have require months if not years of repairs without a dry docl. But it was clear from the dialogue in the episode that Voyager apart from a few unbreathable decks, was still functional vessel.

I just wish they change the ending so the crew was still scattered about and Voyager was still heavily damage.

[Gatefan1976]

If you want to nitpick, I'd say Voyager probably should not have survived up to S2-3 at most without major overhauls in a spacedock.
The only "semi-mitigating" factor I could even come close to "hanging my hat" on it's survival is that the Intrepid class is *built* for long distance and deep recon missions and it would be quite understandable for it to be somewhat modular in design as far as parts and such go.
Still, in all honestly it probably should not have survived the 7 years in the Delta Quadrant.

[Crazedwraith]

I remember in Deadlock they had a massive hole ripped in the hull escaping an attacking vidian ship.

Next week, fine.

It safe to say that along with the number of torpedeos and shuttles, the writers did not keep track of this stuff over time.

[Snowman37]

I just wish they change the ending so the crew was still scattered about and Voyager was still heavily damage.

The network (UPN) wouldn't allow for such a large, sweeping story. The network's argument was that it would confuse the viewers and that it would hurt reruns. When it came to Voyager, the network wanted the show to remain episodic. Remember, this was back in the day when a network showed reruns from the current season between new episodes. Over the summer, the season that just ended would go into reruns. The episodes were often aired randomly.

Granted, this was how most weekly TV shows were handled.

I remember in Deadlock they had a massive hole ripped in the hull escaping an attacking vidian ship.

Are you sure you're not talking about "Fury?" In "Deadlock," there were hull breaches, but they were all minor. The hull crisis was about fractures that could lead to multiple small breaches.

It safe to say that along with the number of torpedeos and shuttles, the writers did not keep track of this stuff over time.

Who's to say they can't rebuild lost shuttlecraft? Clearly they can if they can build the Delta Flyer not once, but twice. Shuttles are warp capable, yes? If they can replace a shuttlecraft warp core, then why was it a big deal when Voyager lost it's warp core not once, but twice? First in "Day of Honor" and again in "Renaissance Man." If they can build shuttlecraft, why not a warp core? Perhaps the urgency in both situations was the ship being dead in space, vulnerable?

[rushy]

It hard to tell what systems would be damage the most, probably the shield emitters But Voyage also incorporated a few alien systems during her journey through the Delta Quandrant, Borg, the sensors it got when she was trap in chaotic space, a much more energy efficient replicator s probably others that I have forgotten.

An if past federation ships are anything to go buy, Voyager probably has a service life of between 50 and 70 years. The new carriers the British and US are building are all predicted to be operation after 50 year. So she was probably built to survive a battering.

Year of hell damage would have require months if not years of repairs without a dry docl. But it was clear from the dialogue in the episode that Voyager apart from a few unbreathable decks, was still functional vessel.

I just wish they change the ending so the crew was still scattered about and Voyager was still heavily damage.

The dialogue states the opposite in the Year of Hell. According to dialogue, Voyager had only very few breathable decks left and was barely functioning at all. Most systems were offline, the entire ship was a complete mess. By the time of the showdown, Voyager was on the verge of simply falling apart.

[rushy]

As for the damage in the finale, I didn't like the fact that except for a few mods, Voyager was still as unchanged as if they just left Earth. They were out there for 7 years and the ship was barely different. I liked how the Year of Hell gave Voyager this... Equinox appereance.

[DigiFluid]

This was just one of the show's many problems, to be sure. But of course this is most evident to those of us who watched it all.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that the various places they stopped off could furnish them with the supplies necessary to patch hull breaches, even fabricate new shuttles and whatnot. But given that they were nowhere near the supplies native to Federation territory, the ship absolutely should have been a patchwork by the end. But on the outside and in.

[Tyjos]

I also thought that too...I'm sure that the places that they might have stopped for supplies might also have repair bays for ships....even with their own systems I'm sure their replicators if they had the proper power supplies could produce all the spare parts and all the materials they needed to repair the ship to keep it going.

[Snowman37]

This was just one of the show's many problems, to be sure. But of course this is most evident to those of us who watched it all.

Blame the network, not the writers.

[DigiFluid]

The network was only part of the problem. The godawful writing was the larger part.

[Crazedwraith]

Are you sure you're not talking about "Fury?" In "Deadlock," there were hull breaches, but they were all minor. The hull crisis was about fractures that could lead to multiple small breaches.

Did some checking and you're right. It was still an example of them tearing off a huge chunk of hull that is back with no comment next week.

Beyond possible network interference there is a reason for that. Redoing effects shots with damage is expensive especially if all your stock shot are affected and especially with early tv cgi. Even BSG only did occasionally at big events like season openers or midseason two-parters.

But still if they can't follow through they shouldn't write them taking that kind of major damage.

Who's to say they can't rebuild lost shuttlecraft? Clearly they can if they can build the Delta Flyer not once, but twice. Shuttles are warp capable, yes? If they can replace a shuttlecraft warp core, then why was it a big deal when Voyager lost it's warp core not once, but twice? First in "Day of Honor" and again in "Renaissance Man." If they can build shuttlecraft, why not a warp core? Perhaps the urgency in both situations was the ship being dead in space, vulnerable?

You mean they built shed loads of shuttlecraft off screen? Yeah, that's plausible. [/sarsasm] And the torpedeos which they made a point of saying were severely limited and irreplaceable in early episodes and ended up shooting off hundreds off them.

[McAvoy]

It's a major point of contention with Voyager among many fans. Voyager should have been severely damaged and patched up by the end of the series. But the ship seemed to be in tip-top shape even with upgrades by the end of the series.

I think a handful of episodes where Voyager had to go to some alien spaceport or whatever to get major repairs (or even just remarking about how it happened offscreen) would have been nice.

I mean paint can make even a rusty old POS ship look great. So patch jobs with alien metal can be excused. Alien technology could have been referenced in having good or bad interface issues. Such things like that.

All of that could have been done by script alone and little need for CGI work on the Voyager model.

[Snowman37]

Ultimately, I think the writers were more interested in telling stories on an episode-by-episode basis. I don't think they cared about this nit-picky stuff.

[Crazedwraith]

I wouldn't say Following through on your entire blinking premise is 'nitpicking stuff'.

[Snowman37]

It depends on how you define the premise. My impression was that the concept of the show was more about isolation and being trapped in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy. Imagine if the Enterprise-D never made it home in "Where No One Has Gone Before," for example. Episodes such as that served as the inspiration for the series. Now, did Voyager have sloppy continuity? Sure, but did that ruin the show for me? No. What will hold me or loose me is the stories and characters. If those stand strong, I can deal with sloppy continuity (serials exempted, naturally).

As for issues such as shuttlecraft, torpedoes, holodecks, and so on... this could have been resolved relatively easily. There could have been an episode where the shuttlebay was extended further into the ship to feature a construction facility for building new shuttles to replace those lost. One of the cargo bays could have been converted into a machine shop, or whatever you want to call it. Here is where things such as torpedoes could be replaced, anything that wouldn't be replaceable under normal circumstances. There could also be dialogue relating to the acquisition of alien-built torpedoes and what not.

From all of this, the only thing that stuck me as odd was the holodeck. The crew is conserving energy, replicator rations for example. However, they run the holodeck all the time. Uh... what? I'd have liked to see them reserve the holodeck on a need-only basis. This would have allowed the producers to introduce a new set, a recreation room of sorts. Instead of gallivanting around the holodeck, we'd see this beautiful room where people go to play games, listen to music, watch movies, and so on.

Did the writers kill the show by not emphasizing the survival aspect? No, not by a long shot. However, it wouldn't have hurt to show weekly discomforts such as shortages and keeping the holodeck off.

[Crazedwraith]

It depends on how you define the premise. My impression was that the concept of the show was more about isolation and being trapped in a completely unexplored part of the galaxy. Imagine if the Enterprise-D never made it home in "Where No One Has Gone Before," for example. Episodes such as that served as the inspiration for the series. Now, did Voyager have sloppy continuity? Sure, but did that ruin the show for me? No. What will hold me or loose me is the stories and characters. If those stand strong, I can deal with sloppy continuity (serials exempted, naturally).

FYI. They didn't. But that I guess is a matter of opinion.

For me the premise was that a) they were trapped on the otherside of the galaxy trying to get home without their usual supply base. This means supplies, shuttles, torpedeos should all be irreplaceable.

And that they had the marquis along. A bunch of undisciplined, rough and tumble, thugs who nevertheless are very good at making do with limited resources and above all getting things done. They were supposed to be a source of constant conflict and argument. They did that for a few episodes in season 1 and then by season 3 that idea was so laughable it was made in to a holodeck episode.

To my mind Voyager should have a lot more conflict between Chakotay and Janeway along the lines of practicality vs principles. Chakotay just wanting to do what it takes to get home and Janeway holding to the starfleet gospel. Occasionally you mixed up bit. Have Chakotay hold to kind of principles he'd have as freedom fighter wanting to get involved and help oppressed people or what ever and janeway holding to a practical lets not risk our ship kind of way.

But what voyager did for a lot of the time was tell the same old star trek story. Weird space stuff is happening. The crew deals with it. TNG Lite.

And the characters? Two best characters were Doctor/Seven and they had the same character ark as Data/Kryten 'what does it mean to be human?' the others were mostly too bland, underutillised or in many cases too changeable. Janeway and the others would change their opinions and beliefs to whatever the episode needed them to be and to hell with consistency.

As for issues such as shuttlecraft, torpedoes, holodecks, and so on... this could have been resolved relatively easily. There could have been an episode where the shuttlebay was extended further into the ship to feature a construction facility for building new shuttles to replace those lost. One of the cargo bays could have been converted into a machine shop, or whatever you want to call it. Here is where things such as torpedoes could be replaced, anything that wouldn't be replaceable under normal circumstances. There could also be dialogue relating to the acquisition of alien-built torpedoes and what not.

They could have been but they weren't. You don't get credit for things that weren't in the series.

They could have got episodes worth of milage out of tension and worry about trades and whether their partners were trust worthy or the principles of giving out advanced technology in exchange for necessities like antimatter fuel. They didn't.

From all of this, the only thing that stuck me as odd was the holodeck. The crew is conserving energy, replicator rations for example. However, they run the holodeck all the time. Uh... what? I'd have liked to see them reserve the holodeck on a need-only basis. This would have allowed the producers to introduce a new set, a recreation room of sorts. Instead of gallivanting around the holodeck, we'd see this beautiful room where people go to play games, listen to music, watch movies, and so on.

Did the writers kill the show by not emphasizing the survival aspect? No, not by a long shot. However, it wouldn't have hurt to show weekly discomforts such as shortages and keeping the holodeck off.

Agreed. With the proviso that my opinion of its overall quality varies from yours.

For me Voyager was averaging out at average. But with a better writing more focus on the concept it could have been so much more. Given DS9's writing team and possibly less focus from the network and bam. Classic.