Distribution of Military Jurisdiction of the Stargate Program/Homeworld Security

[Ancientechexpert]

I have often wondered why prmary control of the Stargate was given to the Air Force. Don't get me wrong, USAF is my favorite military, I have three siblings who have achieved the rank of Staff Sergeant in the Air Force, and I plan to join after I graduate, but I don't think they should be the primary branch going through the Stargate. I believe the Air Force should have command, due to their advanced scientific minds. The SG teams should be comprised of Army and Marines, due to their focus on combat skills. The Tau'ri starships should be under the command of the Navy, because of their command structure, and the similarity between battleships and interstellar ships, with Air Force scientific consultants. Any thoughts, comments, or questions?

[SF_and_Coffee]

The SG teams were a combination of personnel from the Air Force and other branches; there were certainly Marines on some of the teams. (I don't recall whether there were Army personnel or not, but it would make sense.) As for Air Force, don't forget that there are plenty of ground combat personnel in the Air Force too. Jack O'Neill's background certainly looks like it includes heavy experience in Special Ops ground combat units, and the same likely goes for most of the other USAF personnel involved in the teams. The Air Force, as you probably already know, isn't just about aircraft and the piloting and maintenance thereof.

[Ancientechexpert]

Yes, the Air Force has Special Ops, but so do the other military branches. The Marine Corps and the Army, however, focus the majority of their operations on ground combat, while the Air Force focuses on Intelligence, and long range combat.

[Gen. Chris]

If I remember correctly, doesn't the Air Force have jurisdiction with anything that happens above the surface of the Earth? I would say traveling through the Stargate certainly qualifies.

[Teylas Ramar]

I think a lot of it comes down to one of the primary purposes of the Stargate program being to explore and acquire technology. Marines and Army don't explore, they smash. And technical expertise is usually seen as Navy or Air Force. And since, as already said, the USAF is responsible for anything in the air or "above", like the USAF Space Command, the Stargate program, Homeworld Security, etc, etc would all fall under the USAF instead of the Navy.

[garhkal]

True... anything above the surface is AF (as it was the AF that did a lot of nasa stuff in the early years), but you would think that the ships would be more navy than AF..

[SF_and_Coffee]

Yes, the Air Force has Special Ops, but so do the other military branches. The Marine Corps and the Army, however, focus the majority of their operations on ground combat, while the Air Force focuses on Intelligence, and long range combat.

So because ground combat isn't the focus of the Air Force, the perfectly good ground combat personnel that the Air Force has should be excluded from SG teams? I really don't see the logic there at all.

True... anything above the surface is AF (as it was the AF that did a lot of nasa stuff in the early years), but you would think that the ships would be more navy than AF..

Spaceships. Those operate above the Earth, and in fact above the atmosphere. Granted, both the Navy and the Air Force fly planes, so it isn't necessarily true that spacecraft should be the exclusive province of the Air Force on the basis of being above the surface, but on the other hand, as mentioned, the Air Force traditionally been where the US gets most of its astronauts. Just because you call something a ship doesn't make it the same as a seagoing vessel, after all. The Navy's province is the sea, with excursions into the air generally from seagoing vessels. So I could see spacecraft being a shared thing between USAF and USN... but not the exclusive province of the USN.

[Brother Freyr]

Interesting. I thought the Air Force's command was historical chance. The stargate was an artifact that initially fell into the hands of the Air Force, and once it was theirs, they managed to hold onto it. These other considerations never occurred to me.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Interestingly enough, I was reminded by Teylas Ramar's link that the USAF Space Command is, in fact, headquartered at Peterson AFB in Colorado Springs, just up the road as it were from Cheyenne Mountain...

Make of that what you will.

[McAvoy]

Let's keep in mind that the US Navy has a sizable 'air force' of it's own. Not to mention a very efficient Special Ops that would go extremely well with the Stargate Program. I think you may have heard of it: Navy SEALS.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Hell, the SEALS and the USAF Spec Ops folks train together for some things. And I already mentioned USN flight operations. Frankly, I was always a little surprised we didn't see SEALS involved in any SG teams (that I can recall, anyway). I always figured this whole thing should have been a completely Joint Forces command by the time it had been around for very long.

[Zed_PM]

The whole reason why the Air Force is involved in most science fiction is because the CIA didn't want to have to deal with the UFO hysteria in the 1950s and gave the responsibility over to the Air Force, who they were working with at Area 51. Still are I guess. The book doesn't go that far.

A lot of conspiracy theories are centred around real AF bases such as Springwood, Fairbairn (Australia) and probably other USAF bases. Especially after that whole Roswell incident. I guess it has to do with all those experimental aircraft that look like UFOs.

And I'm not sure where I read this but I don't think that marines and the air force get along with each other. Oh, it was in the book Air Force about the Royal Australian Air Force. These experienced marines had to teach young cadets survival methods.

So, I figured because the Air Force is used in science fiction a lot the writers just went with it. I'm glad. I love the Air Force, especially the RAAF. It's the closest I come to being patriotic.

[fems]

I think it was by chance at first and because the Stargate seemed to be alien (and thus would fall under the USAF, apparently), but only a few episodes in there was a Marine team (The Broca Divide) and I doubt they were the only one. Throughout the years as the command grew (remember, they only had 9 teams in the first year, one of which was definitely Marines) more were probably brought in, from all branches and even civilians.

Remember how in Continuum Landry says the Navy will be in charge of the Program? Perhaps because the gate was at the bottom of the ocean and thus the Navy would be involved in the search, but perhaps other reasons (like spacecraft, even though they were a long way from that at the time) played a role too.

[Flyboy]

So because ground combat isn't the focus of the Air Force, the perfectly good ground combat personnel that the Air Force has should be excluded from SG teams? I really don't see the logic there at all.


Spaceships. Those operate above the Earth, and in fact above the atmosphere. Granted, both the Navy and the Air Force fly planes, so it isn't necessarily true that spacecraft should be the exclusive province of the Air Force on the basis of being above the surface, but on the other hand, as mentioned, the Air Force traditionally been where the US gets most of its astronauts. Just because you call something a ship doesn't make it the same as a seagoing vessel, after all. The Navy's province is the sea, with excursions into the air generally from seagoing vessels. So I could see spacecraft being a shared thing between USAF and USN... but not the exclusive province of the USN.

I wouldn't say the units should be excluded, no.

But...


At the end of the day, Stargate Operations, are best kept in the hands of an air force - for all the reasons detailed above. Not only does the USAF represent America's military interest in space, but it has enough familiarity with hi-technology systems, and has access to sufficient resources in order to make such a command viable.

However, there is no requirement for the personnel going through the gate to be air force. Within the US military circles, the best candidates ARE the Marines. They are the US conventional kings of ground combat. They should clearly be at the forefront for combat missions. The US army are great at batallion size missions, but (imo) lack the high-calibre nature of the USMC. Let us not forget, however, that not all gate missions are combat - combat engineering teams are quite frequently needed, and for that the Army would work quite nicely.

In terms of ships, and I've said this before, ships that operate like the 304s do have no business being commanded by AF personnel. The entire skill set required is Naval, and it makes NO sense for the airforce to maintain juristiction over it.

Ultimately, Homeworld Security should be Joint, and that should be at EVERY level.

[Ancientechexpert]

So because ground combat isn't the focus of the Air Force, the perfectly good ground combat personnel that the Air Force has should be excluded from SG teams? I really don't see the logic there at all.

True, the USAF and USN have very skilled Special Ops teams, and no they should not be entirely excluded from the SG teams, but the Marine Corps and Army have more combat experience. Perhaps a compromise? Each exploratory SG team having for members, one from each of the four main military branches?

[fems]

Ultimately, Homeworld Security should be Joint, and that should be at EVERY level.

I've always assumed it was, just like the SGC is a joint command in my opinion. Jack would have needed to "complete a full tour in a Joint-Duty-Assignment" to be promoted to brigadier general and I think his missions at the SGC over the years would have qualified.

[SF_and_Coffee]

To both of you above: Yes.

I've always viewed the SGC as a joint command, as it certainly appears to be one in essence. Not all Gate missions are combat-oriented, so obviously they can be capably handled by teams whose specialties lie outside combat roles. For combat situations, there were indeed Marines involved (I believe SG5 were Marines, for example) and Spec Ops combat specialists from the USAF. Army too, I think. Didn't see USN, though I imagine had a situation arisen that called for them, they'd have been involved as well.

Though I'm pretty sure that Jack had already had Joint-Duty Assignments even before he saw his first Stargate... Either way, though, I never saw the SGC as being a wholly USAF operation.

[fems]

SG-3 were the Marines, although strangely enough they were later led by Reynolds, who was AF...

[garhkal]

Interesting. I thought the Air Force's command was historical chance. The stargate was an artifact that initially fell into the hands of the Air Force, and once it was theirs, they managed to hold onto it. These other considerations never occurred to me.

That never made sense to me as to WHY back in the 30s/40s, it fell to just the AF to study this device?

At the end of the day, Stargate Operations, are best kept in the hands of an air force - for all the reasons detailed above. Not only does the USAF represent America's military interest in space, but it has enough familiarity with hi-technology systems, and has access to sufficient resources in order to make such a command viable.

and the navy does not have as equally high tech systems/technology and the resources to make commands viable?

[Gen. Chris]

SG-3 were the Marines, although strangely enough they were later led by Reynolds, who was AF...

Nothing particularly wrong with that. The command structure works across services...An enlisted man in the Marines still has to follow the orders of an officer in the Air Force.

Is it normal? Of course not. But if they are trying to get the best people for particular duties I would expect some cross-service teams.