The Aschen discussion thread.

[maneth]

The two episodes we did get with them were enough for me. I really want to know who the Furlings really were (surely not the Ewoks of 200...).

[hedwig]

While we know the Aschen had no trouble at all commiting genocide on a long term basis, just so they could have all those other planets to themselves, I would have liked to know why?

Did they have such an enormous population on their home planet that this was an acceptable way of providing more space for their population?

Was the population so enormous they needed all the agricultural space to create enough food for their home world?

Or were they just greedy, but patient enough to wait for other populations to slowly die off in order to get what they wanted?

I don't see their way of destroying other civilizations as either nice or humane as somebody else mentioned.

[LtColCarter]

While we know the Aschen had no trouble at all commiting genocide on a long term basis, just so they could have all those other planets to themselves, I would have liked to know why?

Did they have such an enormous population on their home planet that this was an acceptable way of providing more space for their population?

Was the population so enormous they needed all the agricultural space to create enough food for their home world?

Or were they just greedy, but patient enough to wait for other populations to slowly die off in order to get what they wanted?

I don't see their way of destroying other civilizations as either nice or humane as somebody else mentioned.

[Girlbot]

I loved the Aschen episodes. I would consider them sociopaths.
I thought the 2 episodes were enough. If it had gone into any more eps, then the mystique would have been diluted. I love to watch those eps again .

[Gormagon]

It was humane because it was. lol. Let me put it this way Verne, if you have to be conquered by an opponent with massive technical superiority would you rather have your entire civilization nuked into a radioactive sludge or would you like to live out your extended life in perfect health? Hmm. Let me weigh the options. I am not saying it was right to do what they did but the only "nicer" way to conquer someone would involve a cultural influence take over which is still a take over. The killing of a culture could be considered a form of genocide.

They probably figured all these "lesser" civilizations like the Tau'ri or Volians to be on a path for self annihilation ether from disease or nuclear war or other such disasters. Mollem stated that the growth rate of Earths population was unsustainable.(Which actually is not true at all, its our retarded way of handling resources and greed for money that make people starve.) The Aschen would have figured they were going to die off anyway by various means and may have even thought they were doing them a favor. At least the civilizations would survive in some fashion.

Just playing devils advocate here.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I think any kind of genocide is disqualified from being called "humane." Just because it's less destructive and violent than obliterating humanity by force doesn't mean it's humane. They definitely didn't feel like they were doing us a favor. If they did they wouldn't have included covert sterilization with all their help. Their past behavior indicates they did it to conquer Earth not to euthanize the entire civilization.

Besides, even if they did think they were doing us a favor, if a person goes around forcibly euthanizing other people he feels are on a self destructive path via something painless like poison, that doesn't make him humane that makes him a serial killer.

[maneth]

A very minor part of the populations survived, since the sterilizations weren't even meant to be 100 percent successful, only something like 99.99 percent so a population of billions could be reduced to millions within a generation or so. The reduced populations do bother me, but I'm even more bothered by the reduction of industrial populations to little more than agricultural workers. How big was the Aschen population that they needed to convert entire planets to food production?

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I never got the impression they needed to. Just that they wanted more territory. Earth seemed to have met a different fate in 2010. Even if they weren't quite "done" with their plan, in that episode, I didn't get the impression they were going to turn the entire world into a farm. It probably would not have been cost effective to tear down everything they built to make more food afterward.

[Girlbot]

I think they had a different agenda for Earth. Perhaps they used some planets for agriculture Like the Volians, and some to use for technological purposes. All the tech they used to convert Earth might be one of the Tech societies, and they would patiently wait and then move their people in when Earth's population diminished.
Perhaps they had many planets being depopulated at the same time. Constantly moving across the galaxy with their plans

[Brother Freyr]

Perhaps they had many planets being depopulated at the same time. Constantly moving across the galaxy with their plans

Prior to SG-1's arrival, the Aschen were limited to their local solar system and the Volians, whose nearby planet was the only destination to which they'd traveled via stargate. It's true that during negotiations, one of them says, "We offer you full membership in the Aschen confederation," but the story had already established that the Aschen's influence was strictly local. Thank goodness the scenario of "2010" was averted, or they might well have become a plague across the galaxy.

[hedwig]

Prior to SG-1's arrival, the Aschen were limited to their local solar system and the Volians, whose nearby planet was the only destination to which they'd traveled via stargate. It's true that during negotiations, one of them says, "We offer you full membership in the Aschen confederation," but the story had already established that the Aschen's influence was strictly local. Thank goodness the scenario of "2010" was averted, or they might well have become a plague across the galaxy.

from the "2001" transcript:

...membership in the Aschen Confederation. It is a group of worlds whom the Aschen have united together, and with whom they share technology.

There are likely other planets closer to the Aschen homeworld that don't require a stargate to get to. I assume the Aschen have interplanetary ships to travel between these worlds. Also, how could they have managed to ignite a Jupiter-sized planet into another star unless they had some sort of space ships?

From the transcript:

We do know that they’ve created a secondary star in the Volien system by igniting a gas giant thereby doubling the Volien’s growing season.

I don't think the Aschen Confederation was limited to their homeworld and the Volian world.

HAMMOND: If they a re Stargate capable, why is this the first we’ve heard of them?

DANIEL: That’s a good question. They have ships, but they only use them to travel to the planets within the confederation.

HAMMOND: Of which the Volien system is a part.

[Brother Freyr]

I don't think the Aschen Confederation was limited to their homeworld and the Volian world.

I don't either. Two worlds wouldn't be much of a Confederation. However, the story also gives me the impression that the Aschen are limited to nearby worlds. The Aschen say that SG-1's arrival has opened their eyes, or changed the way they see the galaxy, or something like that. Earth's knowledge of stargates would open the galaxy to the Aschen for the first time.

I assume the Aschen have interplanetary ships to travel between these worlds.

It's clear that they have interplanetary spaceships but not so clear that they have interstellar ones.

[LtColCarter]

It was humane because it was. lol. Let me put it this way Verne, if you have to be conquered by an opponent with massive technical superiority would you rather have your entire civilization nuked into a radioactive sludge or would you like to live out your extended life in perfect health? Hmm. Let me weigh the options. I am not saying it was right to do what they did but the only "nicer" way to conquer someone would involve a cultural influence take over which is still a take over. The killing of a culture could be considered a form of genocide.

They probably figured all these "lesser" civilizations like the Tau'ri or Volians to be on a path for self annihilation ether from disease or nuclear war or other such disasters. Mollem stated that the growth rate of Earths population was unsustainable.(Which actually is not true at all, its our retarded way of handling resources and greed for money that make people starve.) The Aschen would have figured they were going to die off anyway by various means and may have even thought they were doing them a favor. At least the civilizations would survive in some fashion.

Just playing devils advocate here.

Genocide in any way, shape, or form is not humane. The systematic eradication of a people cannot be considered humane. Additionally, there are many who would disagree with you about the Earth's carrying capacity. Some say we've passed the sustainable point.

[Gormagon]

Genocide in any way, shape, or form is not humane. The systematic eradication of a people cannot be considered humane. Additionally, there are many who would disagree with you about the Earth's carrying capacity.

Well perhaps humane is the wrong term, but I would rather live for 200 years in perfect health on a partially Utopian planet then be shot.

Some say we've passed the sustainable point.

In an era of changing climate and sinking economies

Money. Greed. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/20...encequestions1 I especially liked the "if everyone lived by american standards we would need 4 more Earths part." Its the way we manage..or not manage our resources rather and our greed for more more more that is the larger issue.

[garhkal]

While it was more humane in that it was not killing lots of people at once, i disagree it could not be called humane since all it did was prevent births from occuring..

[hedwig]

While it was more humane in that it was not killing lots of people at once, i disagree it could not be called humane since all it did was prevent births from occuring..

In other words, "sterilizing" the human race. How is that humane?

[garhkal]

Well, we sterilize cats n dogs all the time to 'be humane' to them (as well as to prevent overpopulation).. so why is it right for us to do it to other animals, and not someone else to do it to us?

[Infinite-Possibilities]

We don't do it to eradicate other animal lifeforms from the planet.

Also, can you really not see any difference between sterilizing animals and sterilizing people?

Animals kill each other too. Do you think there is anything wrong with people killing each other?

Do you think hunting and killing a person is the equivalent of hunting animals?

[Brother Freyr]

Well, we sterilize cats n dogs all the time to 'be humane' to them (as well as to prevent overpopulation).. so why is it right for us to do it to other animals, and not someone else to do it to us?

We don't do it to eradicate other animal lifeforms from the planet.

Agreed. Conflating genocide and xenocide will complicate the debate you're having. Aschen and Earthers(?) are both human beings. This crime stays within the family, so to speak.

[garhkal]

Do we know the ashen are really human though?? Or they an off shoot??