Was ENT any good?

[LT. COL. John Sheppard]

[LT. COL. John Sheppard]

And not even a very good one at that.

good TNG eps

[Gatefan1976]

And not even a very good one at that.

Indeed.

[Snowman37]

Why are ya'll spoiling the final episode for a TV show Sheppard hasn't even seen yet? Why not let him watch and find out for himself?

LT. COL. John Sheppard, I've copied my post from the previous page in case you didn't see it. I tried to remain spoiler free for you. As for the series finale, ignore everyone's "TNG" comments. It's quality is irrelevant, the What the heck is going on? aspect will be a lot of fun if you don't know what's going on upon your first viewing. Anyway, my post below from the previous page...

If you've seen and enjoyed all or most of the prior four series, you will probably like Enterprise. It got a lot of hatred from the fans for being a prequel and starting off in the TNG/VOY episodic mold. Personally, I loved the show. It was strong right up to the final episodes. Let's break it down by season.

Season 1: The series begins in the year 2151. It is ten years before the founding of the United Federation of Planets, the vast government that Starfleet serves in the earlier series. Starfleet is a relatively new organization, less than a century old. The Enterprise NX-01 is a prototype, Earth's first Warp 5 starship. It also represents Starfleet's first starship capable of deep space exploration beyond the local solar systems. The network wanted a futuristic element added to the show as they weren't sure about the prequel concept. The producers and writers found this silly as the show is still set in the future, but they ran with the request and gave us the Temporal Cold War, introduced in the first episode. This is not a central storyline, but it is a recurring one that carries a strong X-Files vibe in that there's this big, mysterious story that raises more questions than answers. For the most part, the show is the episodic adventures of the Enterprise exploring the galaxy, trying to prove to the Vulcans that Earth is ready to stand on it's feet as an interstellar power.

Season 2: The second season continues the premise of the first. If you liked the first season, you'll probably like Season 2. However, take note that this season features some of the show's best and worst episodes. There are a few weak episodes early on, such as "A Night in Sickbay," but the latter half of the season is really good. The season finale radically changed the show's premise. I don't want to say how, though, it's best left a surprise.

Season 3: The show changed from episodic exploration based stories to a singular mission. An alien species, the Xindi, is building a weapon to destroy the Earth. Enterprise's mission is to enter the mysterious and dangerous Delphic Expanse, find the Xindi, and destroy the weapon. Though there is now a long-term mission, the show still maintains an episodic format. However, the show slips into serial mode for the final seven episodes beginning with "Azati Prime." Though the Temporal Cold War has effectively been dropped in favor of the Xindi, you will learn that the Xindi are ultimately tied into the cold war. Really, this is my favorite season.

Season 4: With the Xindi saga over, a new producer was brought in who wanted to shift the show into pre-Federation stories. This meant tieing off the Temporal Cold War in the first two episodes. The third episode dealt with the fallout from the Xindi saga. From there, it was all about foreshadowing the Federation. The producers felt they couldn't outdo the Xindi saga, but they didn't want to return to the show's episodic format. This resulted in two-parters and trilogies with the occasional stand-alone episode here and there. The first fourteen episodes were really good, but it went downhill from there. There was "Affliction" and "Divergence" which dealt with Klingon forehead inconsistency in the franchise. Next was "Bound," an excuse to show scantily clad women painted green while the men acted like buffoons. "In a Mirror, Darkly" was a two-parter set in the mirror universe, tieing into two original-series episodes. However, it was all too goofy and overacted for me to enjoy. "Demons" and "Terra Prime" was another two-parter, finally back to serious business. These episodes dealt with xenophobia. Finally, the series finale: "These Are the Voyages..." It's best if you go in knowing nothing about the episode. Don't let anyone spoil it for you!

[jelgate]

At first it was total garbage. The same storyline repeating itself week after week. The Xindi arc was pretty good and I thought S4 was even better laying foundation for the aliens and events we hear about in TOS. Unfortunatly the good stuff was too little too late to save the show

[suse]

No. Not to me. I tried several times. I even liked Yoshi and Mayweather. But otherwise..grrrr.

I kept trying but finally gave up in the S3 premiere. That decontamination scene was over the top and told me the direction the show was continuing in. I never tried again.

[Snowman37]

The decontamination scene in the series premiere didn't clue you in?

[McAvoy]

Honestly (coming from a semi-fan of the series), the whole Star trek team were burned out (being easy on them) and really had no new ideas. They worked on the same thing for nearly 20 years on Star Trek series, that they developed a routine of sorts of what they thought that worked. Eventually this led down to a line of thought that gave us ENT.

I mean the premise of ENT was good and had great potential but just like VOY, the execution was piss poor. VOY should have been somewhat similar to BsG in that by the time Voyager returned to Earth after 7 years it should have been held together with string, duct tape and bubblegum and have a very small crew remaining. Yet the ship was in even better shape than before it left.

ENT is similar. Technology is very similar to 23rd or 24th century equivilants with only a slight name change (photonic vs. photon, phase pistols vs. phasers, etc). NX-01 is a clear rip off of a fan favorite Akira class and no matter how well you can defend the ship in universe, in reality that is exactly what happened. They had transporters which they almost started to regularly use (not often but often enough for brand new technology).

Don't get me wrong, certain aspects of it is nice. Like the grappling hook, the older look the nacelles and the underside of the NX-01, the interiors, the uniforms were good and so forth.

It's hard not to repeat old storylines from 600 prior episodes either and especially since they are supposed to visit 'old' member worlds for the first time.

But when you have the Borg, the Ferengi and the Klingons (from the very beginning) you get the imppression that they were going through the motions on many episodes. Almost like they don't care and only doing this for the money and maintaining a steady job regardless if they destroy a franchise.

But one thing does show very brightly is when you have someone new and free to do what they want with the show. Early on it showed with DS9 and then the last season of ENT.

[McAvoy]

With ENT we should have seen primitive weapons like old fashioned lasers that take up alot of space, nuclear missiles, storylines showing that humans are expanding, encroaching upon other species territory creating disputes. Having issues doing scientific exploration because the sensors and technology of the day were primitive and fragile.

We should have seen more Earth ships flying around doing things like convoys, exploration, defense or trade. Yet we see a single ship that somehow will form a Federation in ten years and Earth will be the primary member?

[Snowman37]

Honestly (coming from a semi-fan of the series), the whole Star trek team were burned out (being easy on them) and really had no new ideas. They worked on the same thing for nearly 20 years on Star Trek series, that they developed a routine of sorts of what they thought that worked. Eventually this led down to a line of thought that gave us ENT.

I don't believe they were burned out. TNG and DS9 ran strong from start to finish. VOY and ENT were conceptually fantastic. What happened the later series was UPN. A lot of what the audience wished had happened was suggested by the producers only to be shot down by the network.

I mean the premise of ENT was good and had great potential but just like VOY, the execution was piss poor. VOY should have been somewhat similar to BsG in that by the time Voyager returned to Earth after 7 years it should have been held together with string, duct tape and bubblegum and have a very small crew remaining. Yet the ship was in even better shape than before it left.

VOY was never going to be like BSG. I'm so tired of this comparison. At most, the "Year of Hell" story would have spanned Season 4, and perhaps the ship might never have been pristine after that. However, it was never going to be the dark, edgy show you suggest it should have been. That simply isn't want the producers and writers had in mind.

ENT is similar. Technology is very similar to 23rd or 24th century equivilants with only a slight name change (photonic vs. photon, phase pistols vs. phasers, etc). NX-01 is a clear rip off of a fan favorite Akira class and no matter how well you can defend the ship in universe, in reality that is exactly what happened. They had transporters which they almost started to regularly use (not often but often enough for brand new technology).

I think we all know that photonic torpedoes are just photons with a slightly different name. The same goes for phase pistols and phasers. Sometimes, the name of a technological marvel changes over time. As for Enterprise being too 23rd/24th century, what did you expect? The original show was a product of the 1960's and has been surpassed in the real world, minus space flight and medicinal wonders and such. Naturally, the future depicted would be more inline with that presented in the prior shows. Besides, there were limitations. For example, no shields. Instead of a tractor beam, the ship had a grappler which didn't work half the time. There was hull plating, but I always found this either poorly explained to the audience or poorly thought out. Rather, I'd have liked to have seen the hull very vulnerable, meaning that surviving an attack would have been entirely up to Travis's piloting skills and Malcolm's counterattacks. To me, that would have helped the show feel more like a prequel. Oh, and don't forget the grusome autopsies and surgeries where as in later shows, we got blinking lights to magically heal people and such. As for the NX-01 being based on a popular background ship, yeah, that was done on purpose. The producers were aware of how popular the "Akira-class" was, so when trying to come up with a 22nd century Enterprise, they ran with that design. All they had to do was make it retro and look a predecessor to Kirk's ship. Personally, I was very happy with the final result. As for the transporter, what did you expect? It's a staple of Star Trek. My only issue with it is that the alcove in the hallway was too... simple. That's something I'd expect to see on DS9 or VOY with perfected transporter technology. I'd rather have seen a chamber of horrors kind of facility. I was fine with it being used regularly later on, but I'd also have loved to see cargo and crew members coming back destroyed/dead or simply lost, never to be materialized. It would have added danger, never knowing if you'd survive it.

Bottom line is, I like the show, but I feel like they could have portrayed space as being far more dangerous.

But when you have the Borg, the Ferengi and the Klingons (from the very beginning) you get the imppression that they were going through the motions on many episodes. Almost like they don't care and only doing this for the money and maintaining a steady job regardless if they destroy a franchise.

Was it the producers that killed Trek's TV run, or was it Leslie Moonves and UPN? Regardless, I was expecting the Borg episode from the get go. We all knew they couldn't be a recurring enemy, but how could they pass up the chance to tie First Contact into the series for one episode? Come on... As for the Ferengi, I'll give you that. Even the producers/writers admit they probably went too far on that one. haha Why not feature the Klingons? I love that the first episode was first contact with the Klingons. Yeah, there was the whole story of a bloody first contact, but I like that we saw something different. Why? It wasn't expected.

But one thing does show very brightly is when you have someone new and free to do what they want with the show. Early on it showed with DS9 and then the last season of ENT.

I always thought ENT's strongest season was the third, the Xindi saga.

[Snowman37]

With ENT we should have seen primitive weapons like old fashioned lasers that take up alot of space, nuclear missiles, storylines showing that humans are expanding, encroaching upon other species territory creating disputes. Having issues doing scientific exploration because the sensors and technology of the day were primitive and fragile.

You can't make the show too primitive. Think of where the world was scientifically and technologically as of 2001. The show was to take place 150 years into the future. If it didn't seem futuristic by 2001 standards, it would have fallen apart. As for depicting faulty technology given the ship was a prototype, I'll give you that. As for humanity expanding and creating disputes... we saw that, no?

We should have seen more Earth ships flying around doing things like convoys, exploration, defense or trade. Yet we see a single ship that somehow will form a Federation in ten years and Earth will be the primary member?

We saw all of that. In a first season episode, Archer said there were at least three more NX-class ships on the drawing board. The Columbia NX-02 was featured in the second season finale and a few fourth season episodes. As for a single ship forming the Federation in 10 years, hardly... Are you forgetting the smaller ships seen protecting Earth? Colombia NX-02? The finale was set six years after the show's run. Who knows how many more NX-class ships popped up during that time, including older designs continuing in production?

[McAvoy]

You can make the ship look primitive by 24th century standards but still make it look far more advanced than what we got today. For example: today's current lasers are these huge bulky machines that require it to be that big in order to actually do something more than be a small bright light. For example the military has a whole passenger jet converted into a single powerful laser but even then it requires a few seconds of direct contact with the laser beam to destroy a missile. In other words, i would have liked to see bulky looking energy beam weapons.

Also, I would have liked to see how the polarized hull plating worked. Make it look primitive by have these raised emitters extending out from the hull kind of like how the 24th century phaser arrays look but smaller and different enough. Have these located along the hull in a grid pattern and maybe a SFX look when powered up.

The grappler was good. The nacelle look was good though I think it could have been abit longer IMO. Smaller details like the RCS thrusters being different or larger to show not everything is yet refined.

In the 22nd century humans should have been out there by ENT time. When I mean out there I do not mean a few scattered ships trading, exploring colonizing and so forth. What we got from ENT is a single abandoned colony, a handful of slow transport ships going back and forth (not a bad idea though), and near zero human contact with other alien species beyond the handful those Boomer ships have contacted themselves or what the Vulcans allowed.

What we should have seen is the early beginnings of what would be the most important member world of the Federation rapidly expanding into space. What we got the impression is that the bulk of Starfleet is in or near Sol System and not much else.

NX-01 would have been in a organization rapidly expanding faster than it can keep up with and with Warp 5 would have had to dealt with troublespots, territory disputes, convoy protection and so forth. What we saw in ENT should have been the tip of the iceberg so to speak.

As far as Voyager: I made that comment in that should not be BsG but that is what it SHOULD HAVE BEEN. In other words, we are talking about a ship 70,000 lightyears away from home with a mixed bag of crew. Some of which may or may not even like Starfleet. Some of which are dropouts from Starfleet and should have been depicted with far more conflict than the token episode that we got.

Ever time Voyager was damaged it should have never been a reset button. Granted it would have been hard to do this with a physical model and sets but if they planned ahead for this, they could have made the sets modular enough to show damaged sets and undamaged sets for flashback scenes if needed. The model could have been similar until CGI. The ship should have alien hardware that Voyager gathered on the hull or wherever needed to repair damage. There should be permanently damaged areas of the ship where it's uninhabitable. I mean this is a ship stated in the very first season to have limited resources.

Season 1 alone should have been about the conflict between the Maquis and Starfleet living aboard one ship and how to deal with getting home. Maybe not as a central theme for every single episode but something should have been there maybe as a B story or even C story or even some sort of disagreement between crew.

In stead we got a mint condition ship with a happy crew willing to explore and look around as if they were no in rush to go home. Maquis were happy, Starfleet was happy and there was no conflict. I mean if you took away the fact they were that far away and say they were on the fringes of Federation space it would have been nearly the same except for the central theme of trying to get home.

That is how it should have happened realistically except it wouldn't have looked like Star Trek. It would have been too bold for Star Trek and even by DS9 standards. I mean it could have been done though if you keep the core theme of Star Trek in there.

[Angela V]

It gets turned into a TNG ep

Most of us ENT fans treat the 2 parter before hand as the actual finale. I remember feeling sad the show was ending. Saw that 2 parter and thought "Wow! The finale should be awesome!". I can't believe how much I cursed after seeing that "thing" of an episode. Just seemed to be a slap in the face to the show. I wanted to HEAR Captain Archer's speech. Instead we get Deanna Troi and Will Riker pretending they haven't aged about 10 years. And then the episode just went downhill from there.

[Snowman37]

Did it ever occur to you that the original poster may not want to be spoiled on the final episode? Try using spoiler code.

[DigiFluid]

HOLY CRAPBUCKETS, seven-year-old news about a bit that happens before the intro credits even roll spoils EVERYTHING!

[Snowman37]

Are you stupid? This thread was started by someone who's never watched the show. Naturally, he'll know nothing about the final episode. How long ago it aired is completely irrelevant if he never watched the show. So yeah... SPOILING THE FINALE MIGHT PISS HIM OFF. IT WOULD CERTAINLY PISS ME OFF IF SOMEONE GAVE AWAY THE FINALE OF A SHOW I JUST STARTED WATCHING. Get a clue.

[McAvoy]

Are you stupid? This thread was started by someone who's never watched the show. Naturally, he'll know nothing about the final episode. How long ago it aired is completely irrelevant if he never watched the show. So yeah... SPOILING THE FINALE MIGHT PISS HIM OFF. IT WOULD CERTAINLY PISS ME OFF IF SOMEONE GAVE AWAY THE FINALE OF A SHOW I JUST STARTED WATCHING. Get a clue.

Considering the episode in question... would it really be a loss for him NOT to watch it because he found out what it's about? Just saying.

[DigiFluid]

Yeah, finding out an episode that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REST OF THE SERIES sure does ruin things. Insert random emphasis, rolleyes, and misplaced butthurt here.

[McAvoy]

What?

[Snowman37]

Considering the episode in question... would it really be a loss for him NOT to watch it because he found out what it's about? Just saying.

I'm simply expressing how I would have felt had someone spoiled the episode for me before I saw it. I would have been upset, regardless of quality, especially with it being the final episode.

Yeah, finding out an episode that has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE REST OF THE SERIES sure does ruin things. Insert random emphasis, rolleyes, and misplaced butthurt here.

I didn't say it ruins watching the series. Pay attention. However, it can ruin the first viewing of the series finale. Who on Earth gives away big reveals like that?