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Thread: Justice at last

  1. #21
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    One life for six. I understand his death won't bring them back but it's not like the state is committing a greater crime.
    Depriving anyone of their life is morally wrong.

  2. #22
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    I believe that capital punishment is wrong in each and every single instance it is used for, so I see no difference in campaigning to save the life of someone who has murdered 10 people, or someone who may or may not be guilty. Neither deserves to die.
    ah but one of the two deserves to be saved more than the other

  3. #23
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    ah but one of the two deserves to be saved more than the other
    Why? Neither person deserves to be executed. Just because one committed a crime and the other doesn't mean that the person actually did commit a crime deserves to die any more than the innocent one.

  4. #24
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    Why? Neither person deserves to be executed.
    but I didn't say that, I said:
    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    one of the two deserves to be saved more than the other
    not quite the same thing

    if you had to choose between saving a real killer such as the one here, or saving a murder convict who's guilty of a "lesser" crime and/or who may even be innocent, if you had to save only one of these two, you saying you would hesitate?

  5. #25
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    but I didn't say that, I said: not quite the same thing

    if you had to choose between saving a real killer such as the one here, or saving a murder convict who's guilty of a "lesser" crime and/or who may even be innocent, if you had to save only one of these two, you saying you would hesitate?
    I can give you an answer now, but if I ever had to make that choice in real life, I haven't the faintest idea how I would react.

  6. #26
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    but if I ever had to make that choice in real life, I haven't the faintest idea how I would react.




    alrite then what about self-defense - right or wrong?

  7. #27
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post




    alrite then what about self-defense - right or wrong?
    If it comes down to only two alternatives, either the victim or the attacker dies, then it's morally justifiable to kill the aggressor. But if there's a way that doesn't involve lethal force, then that is absolutely preferable. But such a situation isn't in any way comparable to death row, as I'm sure you realise.

  8. #28
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Exclamation Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    If it comes down to only two alternatives, either the victim or the attacker dies, then it's morally justifiable to kill the aggressor.
    ah but did you not say that no one deserves death? yet in defending yourself, you are clearly choosing your life over the attacker's. what gives you that right, if all lives are equal?

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    ah but did you not say that no one deserves death? yet in defending yourself, you are clearly choosing your life over the attacker's. what gives you that right, if all lives are equal?
    You're right, I shouldn't have said that in absolutely all cases it's wrong to deprive someone of their life. However, I still think that all life is equal, but if you're in a situation where there really is absolutely no other possibility to save your own life than to take the life of someone determined to take your life, then you are within your moral right to take the life of the aggressor. Because, let's face it, no one would decide that, "oh, it's morally wrong to kill the person who's about to kill me, so why not let him kill me". We're human, and we don't think that way.

    I can guess what you're about to say next, but let me just say this: such an occurrence is extremely rare, and doesn't provide for anything like the death penalty, or for shooting someone breaking into your property. I can be all philosophical about morality and the ethics of killing an attacker or not, but realistically speaking, if your life is about to be taken, then you're going to have an over-encompassing urge to preserve your life. It's basic, animalistic instinct, and one which you cannot philosophy away. Capital punishment, however, isn't a decision you have to make in a split-second.

  10. #30
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Tretonin Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    You're right, I shouldn't have said that in absolutely all cases it's wrong to deprive someone of their life. However, I still think that all life is equal, but if you're in a situation where there really is absolutely no other possibility to save your own life than to take the life of someone determined to take your life, then you are within your moral right to take the life of the aggressor. Because, let's face it, no one would decide that, "oh, it's morally wrong to kill the person who's about to kill me, so why not let him kill me". We're human, and we don't think that way.

    I can guess what you're about to say next, but let me just say this: such an occurrence is extremely rare, and doesn't provide for anything like the death penalty, or for shooting someone breaking into your property. I can be all philosophical about morality and the ethics of killing an attacker or not, but realistically speaking, if your life is about to be taken, then you're going to have an over-encompassing urge to preserve your life. It's basic, animalistic instinct, and one which you cannot philosophy away. Capital punishment, however, isn't a decision you have to make in a split-second.
    complicated isn't it?

  11. #31
    Dr Carver Burke SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    k so what about defending someone else then?
    (same scenario only it ain't your life but a friend or relative or something)

  12. #32
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    complicated isn't it?
    Impossible, even.

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    k so what about defending someone else then?
    (same scenario only it ain't your life but a friend or relative or something)
    I don't know.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    complicated isn't it?
    nope
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.

  14. #34
    John McClane mad_gater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    You're right, I shouldn't have said that in absolutely all cases it's wrong to deprive someone of their life. However, I still think that all life is equal, but if you're in a situation where there really is absolutely no other possibility to save your own life than to take the life of someone determined to take your life, then you are within your moral right to take the life of the aggressor. Because, let's face it, no one would decide that, "oh, it's morally wrong to kill the person who's about to kill me, so why not let him kill me". We're human, and we don't think that way.

    I can guess what you're about to say next, but let me just say this: such an occurrence is extremely rare, and doesn't provide for anything like the death penalty, or for shooting someone breaking into your property. I can be all philosophical about morality and the ethics of killing an attacker or not, but realistically speaking, if your life is about to be taken, then you're going to have an over-encompassing urge to preserve your life. It's basic, animalistic instinct, and one which you cannot philosophy away. Capital punishment, however, isn't a decision you have to make in a split-second.
    then there's wartime....soldiers can ill afford to be like "well it's morally wrong to take a life so we'll just let the enemy soldiers run roughshod over us"

    for self defensive purposes I think the idea is to use only what force is necessary to neutralize the aggressor as a threat.......such force doesn't necessarily have to result in the death of the aggressor though it might be called for if a kill shot/blow is the only thing that will neutralize the aggressor (an example of this would be if the aggressor in question is fraked up on crack.....if that's the case it's very likely the aggressor isn't gonna register any shot/blow other than the one that kills him as crack blocks a lot of pain receptors)
    Last edited by mad_gater; April 16th, 2012 at 01:17 PM.



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  15. #35
    Captain Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble's Avatar
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    Default Re: Justice at last

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    You're right, I shouldn't have said that in absolutely all cases it's wrong to deprive someone of their life. However, I still think that all life is equal, but if you're in a situation where there really is absolutely no other possibility to save your own life than to take the life of someone determined to take your life, then you are within your moral right to take the life of the aggressor. Because, let's face it, no one would decide that, "oh, it's morally wrong to kill the person who's about to kill me, so why not let him kill me". We're human, and we don't think that way.

    I can guess what you're about to say next, but let me just say this: such an occurrence is extremely rare, and doesn't provide for anything like the death penalty, or for shooting someone breaking into your property. I can be all philosophical about morality and the ethics of killing an attacker or not, but realistically speaking, if your life is about to be taken, then you're going to have an over-encompassing urge to preserve your life. It's basic, animalistic instinct, and one which you cannot philosophy away. Capital punishment, however, isn't a decision you have to make in a split-second.
    I don't think self-defence should be allowed because it is a natural human instinct as there are a lot of things which are natural humans that are bad, so instinct can't be guide of what is moral. I believe that valuing your own life more than others is morally right as if no one valued their own life the world would not be nice place to live in.

    I think that of the people on death row who actually are guilty of the horrific crime their accused of most are extremely damaged individuals and should be treated (in a secure facility) and not punished untill they pose no or very little threat to the public for how ever long it takes. I just think people who commit such horrendous crimes are abnormal and need dealing with and not just put in prison and have the key thrown away.

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