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    #31
    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
    I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.
    Not according to the stories we heard about their fights against each other. The name Sobek ring a bell?

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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      #32
      actually no.

      yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.

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        #33
        Originally posted by thekillman View Post
        actually no.

        yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.
        I suppose if you consider Ra to be the only System Lord in existence, that might be true. Canon, however, says otherwise:

        Sobek


        Ra was "Supreme System Lord" but not the only System Lord
        , and there was constant internecine conflict

        From the link above:
        The Goa'uld society was feudal in nature. Their hierarchy was governed by the System Lords, a few dozen of the most powerful Goa'uld who were usually warring with one another for worlds and resources.

        (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
        Sum, ergo scribo...

        My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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        now also appearing on DeviantArt
        Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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          #34
          Remember also Anubis and Sokar.
          Hi There!

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            #35
            Originally posted by McAvoy View Post
            Remember also Anubis and Sokar.
            Yep, them too.

            (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
            Sum, ergo scribo...

            My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
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            Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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              #36
              They point big nasty weapons at people and say NOW!
              I like Sharky
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                #37
                Originally posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
                I've just always assumed that a lot of things exist in the Gateverse without our ever having been shown them. Infrastructure, manufacturing facilities, etc. definitely fall into that category for me.
                I agree. Also, the suspension of disbelief is essential. I recently watched the series "Fringe:" utterly ridiculous, but I enjoyed it by temporarily abandoning everything I knew about science. Silly details (like a half-built Ha'tak on a grassy hillside) occasionally punch through my suspension of disbelief. Only occasionally, thank goodness.

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                  #38
                  Anubis wasn´t killed. nor was Sokar. Well, sokar was killed only AFTER Ra.

                  That´s my point: System Lords weren't killed (with maybe 1 exception) before Ra was. And if there were, the amount of killings was so damn low, no complex explanations to their followers had to be made.

                  millions of slaves died. millions of jaffa died. but barely any System Lords. (only 1 confirmed kill, and that timing is impossible to date as before Ra or after)

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.
                    I call your attention to the bit I've bolded from your earlier post.

                    Originally posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
                    Not according to the stories we heard about their fights against each other. The name Sobek ring a bell?
                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    actually no.

                    yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.
                    According to what we were told in "Summit", Bastet and Kali at one time made a treaty with Sobek, another System Lord, and then rose up during the banquet intended to celebrate the treaty, and killed him. Context makes it sound like this happened at some point in the distant enough past as to predate Ra's death. Remember that Goa'uld have very long lives, and nothing we ever saw from them in canon seemed to indicate that they found the state of conflict between System Lords to be an unusual or recent development. Also, recall that the Tok'ra operated for ages by working to pit one System Lord against another, thus subtly altering the balance of power enough to prevent a complete takeover of the entire galaxy.

                    Teal'c says, in the episode In The Line of Duty: "Every Goa'uld seeks power for his own reason and would betray his own brother to achieve it." Sounds like he's saying that conflict has been SOP for the Goa'uld for quite some time.

                    Also from the same episode:

                    JOLINAR
                    It must be the Ashrak.


                    TEAL'C
                    It means hunter.


                    JACK
                    A Goa'uld?


                    JOLINAR
                    Yes. An assassin of the highest rank
                    who carries out the orders of the System
                    Lords.
                    A society at peace is unlikely to maintain a corps of assassins.

                    Likewise, again from the same episode:
                    TEAL'C
                    Jolinar once tried to overthrow
                    one of the System Lords but was defeated
                    when Apophis joined the battle. He escaped
                    during the slaughter of his armies.



                    JACK
                    It seems this Jolinar is wanted in Goa'uld
                    town.


                    TEAL'C
                    He claims to be part of the Tok'ra.
                    Sounds to me like Jolinar was known to have attempted overthrowing Apophis but had not yet been known to have defected to the Tok'ra. Ergo, it can be inferred from the above exchange that wars between various Goa'uld factions were commonplace long before Ra was killed, given the implication that one Goa'uld might fight against another and yet a third Goa'uld might come to the aid of the first or second. Recall too that we are given evidence in canon of things like Heru'ur's enmity toward Apophis, which is at the very least implied to have existed prior to Ra's death.

                    Ergo, your assertion that the Goa'uld were at peace prior to Ra's death doesn't appear to hold much water when examined in the light of canon.

                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    That´s my point: System Lords weren't killed (with maybe 1 exception) before Ra was.
                    We have nothing in canon saying definitively that they weren't, and the evidence we do have seems to imply that they probably were.

                    Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                    And if there were, the amount of killings was so damn low, no complex explanations to their followers had to be made.
                    Again, we don't know how many. On the other hand, the followers of these "gods" wouldn't really have been in a position to expect or demand explanations, so it scarcely matters.

                    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                    Sum, ergo scribo...

                    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                    sigpic
                    now also appearing on DeviantArt
                    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                      #40
                      More evidence...

                      According to what we are told in Fair Game:
                      Teal'c's father was first prime to Cronus. When Teal'c was a child, Cronus ordered his father to attack a rival Goa'uld who was more powerful at the time. When the attack failed, Cronus killed Teal'c's father as punishment, and exiled Teal'c and his mother. They fled to Chulak, where Teal'c became a Jaffa with the goal of one day becoming first prime of Apophis, sworn enemy of Cronus.
                      As Teal'c is ~90 years old when we first meet him, this very definitely predates Ra's death, and as such indicates that conflict and warfare between the various System Lords was already an ongoing state of affairs long before the Tau'ri even unearthed the Stargate buried at Giza.

                      (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                      Sum, ergo scribo...

                      My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                      sigpic
                      now also appearing on DeviantArt
                      Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                        #41
                        Don't forget Telchak (aka Chac on Earth), who was defeated and probably killed by Anubis thousand of years ago.
                        Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                        Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                        On FFnet or AO3


                        My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                          #42
                          Look i'm not saying they were at peace. but with the bloodshed since Ra, i'd pretty much call it that.

                          As Teal'c is ~90 years old when we first meet him, this very definitely predates Ra's death, and as such indicates that conflict and warfare between the various System Lords was already an ongoing state of affairs long before the Tau'ri even unearthed the Stargate buried at Giza.
                          it's not about wars, it's the killing of system lords.

                          besides, there are a whole lot more goa'uld ( a thousand or so i believe that belong to the family) than there are system lords (like, what, 10 or so?). that episode with Typhon and the dripping nose of the setesh guard. why can't i remember the name?

                          Since the system lords are the ones that pose as gods, i'd say that the actual killing of system lords did not really happen until after Ra was killed.

                          Look at it this way:

                          Before ra, we have 1 death. known over the course of 5000 years. in a decade, we have Sokar, Apophis, Ba'al, Anubis, Heru'ur, Ra, and several others who all died (but weren't killed by Replicators).

                          Since actual, game-changing grabs of power didn't happen until Apophis rose from Ra's ashes, i'd say pre-Ra it would pretty much have been called peace by the Goa'uld.

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                            #43
                            You're the one who initially said they'd been at peace, and all I can say is that you have a very different idea of what constitutes peace than most people. Internecine conflict necessitating the use of armies and space fleets, and involving power grabs and death doesn't really fit into any definition of "peace" that I've ever heard.

                            (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                            Sum, ergo scribo...

                            My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                            sigpic
                            now also appearing on DeviantArt
                            Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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                              #44
                              Don't forget Seth, Hathor, Isis, Egeria and all the other Goa'uld who'd been either banished or killed (as far as everyone knew).
                              Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
                              Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
                              On FFnet or AO3


                              My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories.

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                                Look i'm not saying they were at peace.
                                That's funny; the forum claims you did.

                                Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                                I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.
                                See?

                                You're the one who initially said they'd been at peace, and all I can say is that you have a very different idea of what constitutes peace than most people. Internecine conflict necessitating the use of armies and space fleets, and involving power grabs and death doesn't really fit into any definition of "peace" that I've ever heard.

                                And really I don't see where things got any more bloody between the Goa'uld after Ra's death than they were before.

                                (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
                                Sum, ergo scribo...

                                My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3
                                sigpic
                                now also appearing on DeviantArt
                                Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

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