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Thread: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

  1. #21
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Purely based upon observed production methods, i'd conclude the following:

    -The only real thing of value to the Asgard is neutronium. anything else can be replicated. food, shelter, medicine, technology. Money would not exist, everything belongs to everyone.

    -The Goa'uld are evil oppressors who take what they want. slaves are forced to build their stuff, and the naquahdah they use is mined by slaves. their Jaffa are kept in line both by fear and necessity of Goauld symbionts, so everything is free to them.

    -The Ori are ascended, so any real material would be of no value to them. their worshippers more or less are slaves, so the Goauld situation kind of applies.

    -the Wraith grow everything, so production costs are zero. their also feed on humans, so food costs nothing, and they seem to have no civilians whatsoever.

    -the Ancients, Nox and Furlings likely have the same scenario as the Asgard.

    anyone i missed?

    Earth has money because sufficient effort is involved with production and material acquiring. Plus, it also stimulates a human's efforts, so it works. if production and mining gets so advanced that it costs practically nothing, or if the methods of mining and producing are non-voluntairy and unpaid, basically no money is required anymore

  2. #22
    Ensign SamanthaJenniferChloe's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Hello!

    I am sure that for say the Goa'uld would take whatever they needed to wage war.

    I have a question. If a Goa'uld System Lord were to order his or her Jaffa to torture another Goa'uld System Lord would they do it. I can not remember if there was a case of that clearly shown.

  3. #23
    Captain Gormagon's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    I am sure that the Jaffa would obey his "God" and torture the captured "false god."
    He who controls the spice controls the universe!(And the kitchen.)

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  4. #24
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    That always made me scratch my head. If the gou'ald always claimed that as gods, they couldn't be killed, how do they get their followers to make the other 'gods' die?

  5. #25
    Second Lieutenant McAvoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    What makes me scratch my head if they are Gods, how can they fear something? If they are Gods how can they be defeated like non-Gods like the Tollan?

  6. #26
    First Lieutenant Brother Freyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    The OP asks a fair question. We often see goa'uld mining operations but never an industrialized world with factories for ship parts, crystal computer components, etc. Remember the episode where SG-1 rescues Bratac and Ryac from Baal's naquada mines. On the adjacent hillside, there's a partially contsructed Hatach spaceship. No other insfrastructure is evident. I rolled my eyes at the ridiculousness of it. Yes, of course, the slaves hammer raw ore into finished spaceship parts. No refinement. No fabrication plants.

    You've got to overlook this shortcoming. If it consistently bothers you, you won't enjoy the series.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Perhaps they had tech that took the raw ore and smelted it down into ready to use parts..

  8. #28
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Freyr View Post
    The OP asks a fair question. We often see goa'uld mining operations but never an industrialized world with factories for ship parts, crystal computer components, etc. Remember the episode where SG-1 rescues Bratac and Ryac from Baal's naquada mines. On the adjacent hillside, there's a partially contsructed Hatach spaceship. No other insfrastructure is evident. I rolled my eyes at the ridiculousness of it. Yes, of course, the slaves hammer raw ore into finished spaceship parts. No refinement. No fabrication plants.

    You've got to overlook this shortcoming. If it consistently bothers you, you won't enjoy the series.
    I've just always assumed that a lot of things exist in the Gateverse without our ever having been shown them. Infrastructure, manufacturing facilities, etc. definitely fall into that category for me.

    I don't recall ever getting a look at the restroom facilities on Goa'uld or Tau'ri spaceships either, or in Tok'ra bases. But it makes sense to assume they were there...

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  9. #29
    Second Lieutenant McAvoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Freyr View Post
    The OP asks a fair question. We often see goa'uld mining operations but never an industrialized world with factories for ship parts, crystal computer components, etc. Remember the episode where SG-1 rescues Bratac and Ryac from Baal's naquada mines. On the adjacent hillside, there's a partially contsructed Hatach spaceship. No other insfrastructure is evident. I rolled my eyes at the ridiculousness of it. Yes, of course, the slaves hammer raw ore into finished spaceship parts. No refinement. No fabrication plants.

    You've got to overlook this shortcoming. If it consistently bothers you, you won't enjoy the series.
    At the angle we saw that unfinished Ha'tak, did we see the ground? I am asking because it is certainly possible that the factories are close by but we didn't see it. But the big question is: who is working in those factories? Slave labor is horrible for making high quality parts as the Nazis found out.

  10. #30
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    That always made me scratch my head. If the gou'ald always claimed that as gods, they couldn't be killed, how do they get their followers to make the other 'gods' die?
    I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.
    Not according to the stories we heard about their fights against each other. The name Sobek ring a bell?

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  12. #32
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    actually no.

    yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.

  13. #33
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    actually no.

    yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.
    I suppose if you consider Ra to be the only System Lord in existence, that might be true. Canon, however, says otherwise:

    Sobek


    Ra was "Supreme System Lord" but not the only System Lord
    , and there was constant internecine conflict

    From the link above:
    The Goa'uld society was feudal in nature. Their hierarchy was governed by the System Lords, a few dozen of the most powerful Goa'uld who were usually warring with one another for worlds and resources.

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  14. #34
    Second Lieutenant McAvoy's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Remember also Anubis and Sokar.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by McAvoy View Post
    Remember also Anubis and Sokar.
    Yep, them too.

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  16. #36

    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    They point big nasty weapons at people and say NOW!

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  17. #37
    First Lieutenant Brother Freyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    I've just always assumed that a lot of things exist in the Gateverse without our ever having been shown them. Infrastructure, manufacturing facilities, etc. definitely fall into that category for me.
    I agree. Also, the suspension of disbelief is essential. I recently watched the series "Fringe:" utterly ridiculous, but I enjoyed it by temporarily abandoning everything I knew about science. Silly details (like a half-built Ha'tak on a grassy hillside) occasionally punch through my suspension of disbelief. Only occasionally, thank goodness.

  18. #38
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Anubis wasn´t killed. nor was Sokar. Well, sokar was killed only AFTER Ra.

    That´s my point: System Lords weren't killed (with maybe 1 exception) before Ra was. And if there were, the amount of killings was so damn low, no complex explanations to their followers had to be made.

    millions of slaves died. millions of jaffa died. but barely any System Lords. (only 1 confirmed kill, and that timing is impossible to date as before Ra or after)

  19. #39
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    I think they added a part where it says gods can kill gods. But remember, before we killed Ra, the goauld were pretty much at peace, and had been for about 5000 years.
    I call your attention to the bit I've bolded from your earlier post.

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    Not according to the stories we heard about their fights against each other. The name Sobek ring a bell?
    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    actually no.

    yes there were wars. but from the looks of it, the actual killing of System Lords (not weasly underlords) did not happen untill O'neill killed Ra.
    According to what we were told in "Summit", Bastet and Kali at one time made a treaty with Sobek, another System Lord, and then rose up during the banquet intended to celebrate the treaty, and killed him. Context makes it sound like this happened at some point in the distant enough past as to predate Ra's death. Remember that Goa'uld have very long lives, and nothing we ever saw from them in canon seemed to indicate that they found the state of conflict between System Lords to be an unusual or recent development. Also, recall that the Tok'ra operated for ages by working to pit one System Lord against another, thus subtly altering the balance of power enough to prevent a complete takeover of the entire galaxy.

    Teal'c says, in the episode In The Line of Duty: "Every Goa'uld seeks power for his own reason and would betray his own brother to achieve it." Sounds like he's saying that conflict has been SOP for the Goa'uld for quite some time.

    Also from the same episode:

    JOLINAR
    It must be the Ashrak.


    TEAL'C
    It means hunter.


    JACK
    A Goa'uld?


    JOLINAR
    Yes. An assassin of the highest rank
    who carries out the orders of the System
    Lords.
    A society at peace is unlikely to maintain a corps of assassins.

    Likewise, again from the same episode:
    TEAL'C
    Jolinar once tried to overthrow
    one of the System Lords but was defeated
    when Apophis joined the battle. He escaped
    during the slaughter of his armies.



    JACK
    It seems this Jolinar is wanted in Goa'uld
    town.


    TEAL'C
    He claims to be part of the Tok'ra.
    Sounds to me like Jolinar was known to have attempted overthrowing Apophis but had not yet been known to have defected to the Tok'ra. Ergo, it can be inferred from the above exchange that wars between various Goa'uld factions were commonplace long before Ra was killed, given the implication that one Goa'uld might fight against another and yet a third Goa'uld might come to the aid of the first or second. Recall too that we are given evidence in canon of things like Heru'ur's enmity toward Apophis, which is at the very least implied to have existed prior to Ra's death.

    Ergo, your assertion that the Goa'uld were at peace prior to Ra's death doesn't appear to hold much water when examined in the light of canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    That´s my point: System Lords weren't killed (with maybe 1 exception) before Ra was.
    We have nothing in canon saying definitively that they weren't, and the evidence we do have seems to imply that they probably were.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    And if there were, the amount of killings was so damn low, no complex explanations to their followers had to be made.
    Again, we don't know how many. On the other hand, the followers of these "gods" wouldn't really have been in a position to expect or demand explanations, so it scarcely matters.

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  20. #40
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: How did aliens FUND their huge operations?!

    More evidence...

    According to what we are told in Fair Game:
    Teal'c's father was first prime to Cronus. When Teal'c was a child, Cronus ordered his father to attack a rival Goa'uld who was more powerful at the time. When the attack failed, Cronus killed Teal'c's father as punishment, and exiled Teal'c and his mother. They fled to Chulak, where Teal'c became a Jaffa with the goal of one day becoming first prime of Apophis, sworn enemy of Cronus.
    As Teal'c is ~90 years old when we first meet him, this very definitely predates Ra's death, and as such indicates that conflict and warfare between the various System Lords was already an ongoing state of affairs long before the Tau'ri even unearthed the Stargate buried at Giza.

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