The Mechanics of Writing Fiction

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

When I write letters from characters to other characters I try to make them formal,

But what if it's a character who wouldn't write formal letters?

Seaboe

[Whytewytch]

I recently took a class on POV. The instructor told us to think of the difference between omniscient and 3rd this way:

--In 3rd person, you are the character. You are wearing a video camera on your head. You can see and interpret the actions of others, but you cannot see their thoughts and feelings.

--In omniscient, the camera not only records the actions of everyone in the room, but can also read their thoughts and emotions.

There is nothing wrong with omniscient, it's just something we're not used to with contemporary writing anymore. The one thing to be careful of is that you do not put the thoughts and emotions of two or more people in ONE paragraph. That's head-hopping and confusing, no matter what POV you're using.

[SF_and_Coffee]

I recently took a class on POV. The instructor told us to think of the difference between omniscient and 3rd this way:

--In 3rd person, you are the character. You are wearing a video camera on your head. You can see and interpret the actions of others, but you cannot see their thoughts and feelings.

--In omniscient, the camera not only records the actions of everyone in the room, but can also read their thoughts and emotions.

Well, technically, they're both forms of 3rd: 3rd omniscient and 3rd limited or limited 3rd. 3rd limited also breaks down into limited 3rd single, where one character retains the POV throughout the entire story and limited 3rd multi, where different characters take turns being the POV character. Regardless, whoever has POV at the moment can only relate what he or she observes, experiences, thinks or feels.

For anyone who began by writing in 3rd omniscient, the switch to 3rd limited can take effort. I know that every once in a while, I still goof and break into omniscient for a line or two, which results in a head-hop that I have to go back and correct.

There is nothing wrong with omniscient, it's just something we're not used to with contemporary writing anymore. The one thing to be careful of is that you do not put the thoughts and emotions of two or more people in ONE paragraph. That's head-hopping and confusing, no matter what POV you're using.

THIS. ^

[Whytewytch]

Well, technically, they're both forms of 3rd: 3rd omniscient and 3rd limited or limited 3rd. 3rd limited also breaks down into limited 3rd single (where one character retains the POV throughout the entire story) and limited 3rd multi, where different characters take turns being the POV character, but whoever has POV at the moment can only relate what he or she observes, experiences, thinks or feels.

To be fair, the distinction was mine, not hers with regard to the omniscient. I just don't add the tag "3rd" to omniscient. Unless you're writing from the mind of a deity or a mind-reader, it's not like you're going to use it in 1st. And 2nd--**shudder**--is just so awkward for fiction IMHO. She did discuss the various forms of 3rd, but I did not feel like going into them ATM.

For anyone who began by writing in 3rd omniscient, the switch to 3rd limited can take effort. I know that every once in a while, I still goof and break into omniscient for a line or two, which results in a head-hop that I have to go back and correct.

That's probably where I got my head-hopping from. That, and writing deep 3rd romance.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Gah... 2nd-person fiction is like those "choose your adventure" books. Can't stand them.

As for head-hops, I was going over some formatting issues on my website from very early chapters of ATWLB, and found a couple of them that I hadn't ever noticed I'd made, so I'm still not immune myself. I went and fixed them, and when I find the time, I'm going to copy-paste the text of every chapter from my site to the other three archives where I have the story, replacing what's there.

Gonna need a bottle of wine for that task, I think.

[Princess Awinita]

But what if it's a character who wouldn't write formal letters?

Seaboe

If I ever run into such a character my mind takes over and she has someone writie it for her, In this case Lake is good at killing, not writing, boy, the Wraith would fear her. heck I doubt they'd get close enough to feed. If they did, well, she'd break their arms, necks and legs before they knew what hit them.

Now, on the topic of story astructure that comes to mind, I am found that there are three types of time in a story; Narrative, structures, and down.

Narrative time takes place during any story as we read along, time passes in the story at a set pace given by the writer of the story in the first place, sometimes with dates, or times in the story, or just by having the characters check a sundial every now and then. Narrative time is also used in most roleplying games as well.

Structured Time is my favorite; This is when a fight is going on. Timing everything in the fight is what makes a fight so real. {He hits here, she ducks here, he tries again, she blocks, returns hit, etc} Giving the right ammount of detail in such time is also crucial to get down correctly as well. otherwise it falls apart and doesn't go anywhere.

Downtime is those little snippets of time passing with nothing going on. Normally this I try to reserve for scene jumps that I seperate with a *~*~* marking, this starts the downtime until the next block of text begins. Downtime also occurs in my stories at the ends of each chapter.

So, there is the meaning of time, you can use it if you guys want, its just how I write and structure time in my stories.

For example, in my Project Icegate story, the whole story took place over three days in the story itself. From the start of the story to its end, it took place over a thre day period. {then it is shown to be an old guy telling a reporter the story for a news paper.} the next two stories take place a few months later and go on for about two weeks in the story.

Time does indeed play a part in any story.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

If I ever run into such a character my mind takes over and she has someone writie it for her...

Here's the thing, though. Having Lake (or whoever) write her own letters, in a blunt, terse, whatever style would be a great platform to differentiate the characters from each other.

Dialog is a great way to differentiate characters, of course, because it's fairly easy to make them talk differently. Using action is harder, because of the problems of viewpoint and "show, don't tell." It doesn't make sense to me to ignore something (like a written message) that could be used to provide characterization.

Seaboe

[SF_and_Coffee]

Here's an interesting online tool that will analyze your writing for overall effectiveness of word choices and use: The "Writer's Diet" Test

[mathpiglet]

Cool test. My sample from a current un-edited story indicated I was fit and trim, but I do need to work on my verbs. A second random sample showed as being lean.

I'm so proud!

[SF_and_Coffee]

That's pretty much what I got, too, and it made me happy!

[mathpiglet]

We can be happy together!

[Princess Awinita]

Here's an interesting online tool that will analyze your writing for overall effectiveness of word choices and use: The "Writer's Diet" Test

I got fit and trim, whatever that means

[Whytewytch]

Here's an interesting online tool that will analyze your writing for overall effectiveness of word choices and use: The "Writer's Diet" Test

I got "lean" also. One unedited piece got "fit and trim". I also use the tools on SA, but you have to be a member to use them--there's "autocritter" which is a lot like the WD test and then there's the "cliche finder". I run my texts through both of them now.

[Jackie]

never heard the term "head hopping" before. LOL. When I was a kid, I was taught to center around around your main character to eliminate over excessive use of third party (head hopping?) charcter POV.

I guess it's the same thing.

For me, it's get hard if I have more than two main charcters in a fic. Usually I center on 1 main character and a supporting character. I will add addional thoughts of a third party character if it's relevant to a statement or expression the character has made. Otherwise I don't bother to do that.

Most stories, by it's very nature--a story, are written 3rd person, past tense. Present tense would be for techincal manuals, instructions, ect. Tense represents time, usually stories are told after the fact or something had already happened.

Few authors use present tense, for the effect of bringing the reader into the story more inetently, but if the story is done sloppy or not well, the present tense will effect will backfire and make the story hard to read. Guess that was what happened to some fics.

I always write past tense, center on character with supporting characters using 3rd person POV and narrative. My biggest issue is grammar, spelling, making sure the sentance structure is whole and not fragmented or run on. Usually plot is not an issue for me, luckily for I have enough issues.

[Seaboe Muffinchucker]

In the peeves thread, the topic of naming came up. Since naming can tell the reader a lot about the story, it's probably a good thing to discuss here.

Names give the reader hints about the society. If you use Asian influenced names, for example, it leads to certain assumptions, not only about the society but about the appearance of the characters (e.g., that a character named Mitsuko will be a female with brown eyes and hair).

If your ship names come from the Bible, then the reader will assume your characters have a Christian society. Ships named after people, with registry numbers instead of names, with registry numbers and nicknames all say something as well.

Seaboe

[Starfist]

Hi all.
I tried the test SF&C posted with a piece of work that I had with me at work. It was a non Stargate piece and I got a result of 'Fit and Trim'. Which surprised me.

I have a feeling that my Stargate pieces may get a different result.

[mathpiglet]

Good for you!

[fems]

How do you guys feel about contractions, specifically for words like 'would', 'had', 'did', 'will', 'shall', 'is', 'does' and 'has'?

[mathpiglet]

It doesn't bother me at all. I realize that the convention for written language is not to use contractions except in speech, but my eyes glide over them without any problem at all.

[Cold Fuzz]

How do you guys feel about contractions, specifically for words like 'would', 'had', 'did', 'will', 'shall', 'is', 'does' and 'has'?

I think it depends on context. For 3rd person POV, I don't remember too many written works that use contractions. However, this also depends on the overall tone established by the narrative. If something's more informal from the get-go, then I think it's fine.

For my fic, it's in 1st person POV so it's a little bit different. I'd say the narrator's tone tends to lean towards sophisticated language much of the time because that's the way he thinks and writes. There's plenty of contractions in appropriate places. With dialogue, he's as informal as the next person so contractions abound but he also tends toward sophisticated language sometimes. Piss him off though, he can be incredibly coarse.