Why is GW against SOPA and PIPA?

[schlemmbot]

I have to say I'm leaning towards being in favor of these bills. So as I ask in the title of this thread: Why is GW against SOPA and PIPA?

[Graybrew1]

I have to say I'm leaning towards being in favor of these bills. So as I ask in the title of this thread: Why is GW against SOPA and PIPA?

Do you actually understand these bills?

[SF_and_Coffee]

Seconding what Graybrew said. Think about Gateworld for a minute: the forum alone has a ton of things that people have posted or linked to that contain copyrighted material, not all of it even related to Stargate or to scifi. SOPA and PIPA, if passed, would probably lead to Gateworld being blocked from being accessed by anyone in the United States.

And even if they got rid of the forum entirely, there's a ton of other stuff that would probably do it. Fan sites in general would be gone if SOPA and PIPA passed.

Also on the chopping block:

Fanfic sites
Youtube and similar sites
Tons of photo sites
Blogs of all sorts
and the list goes on...

[Graybrew1]

It opens up a slippery slope we don't want to go down. It also won't work.

[Skydiver]

The basis of these bills, and i'm speaking as me not as Darren's official stance (that's for him to say) is that ANY site that the MPAA can think or prove just MIGHT be linking to copyrighted material can be blocked from being accessed.

Since torrent results can come up on google, it can be blocked, so can wikipedia, so can youtube (since people can upload copyrighted material). So could this forum, your personal blog if you post a screen cap without permission or a snippit of a song or even song lyrics. So could fanfic sites, so could any twitter or facebook or blog taht posts a cap or picture of a show or movie without the owner's express permission. If you post a movie quote you could be shut down.

Newspapers could be blocked or magazine sites....literally ANY site on the internet could be blocked. And they could be blocked solely on the sayso of the MPAA or other group.

Theoretically, say MGM makes a movie that the critics hate. They blast it, MGM can claim that they are violating copyright by using caps from teh movie in the review and have it blocked. Now it might not stand or last, but it can be done. What if they decide that amazon is violating copyright by selling previewed dvd's? Or any local store that resales copyrighted material? They could shut it down.

People mock the crap out of China for censoring their internet, but this is the same thing. Except it's being done in the name of profit and consumerism instead of government control (that said, it does begin the slippery slope of...say a case is made that people even reading about abortion is wrong, well since they can block sites with copyrighted material, it'd be easy to do the same about a site with information about abortion or birth control or any social movement group(I'm sure they could find a copyright violation somewhere to take down any 'occupy' sites)....or any other thing. (yes, they could use the same rationale to block bomb making sites or weapons sites)

It's censorship. It's one group deciding what the whole country is ALLOWED to access.

I personally do not support piracy. People that go out and torrent movies are wrong as far as i'm concerned. You wanna do it, that's your business (and NO this is not an invite to start a debate on the rightness or wrongness of torrenting or abortion or any of these topics), however since the MPAA can't get other countries to help control piracy, they're trying to get the power to censor the internet.

That's what's at the basis of these two bills, some group deciding what you can/can't access and them being able to effectively shut down websites that THEY find objectionable or 'wrong'.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Well said, Sky!

[escyos]

Wikis could get shut down too.

<mod snip, please make your comments without name calling>

[Pharaoh Atem]

I have to say I'm leaning towards being in favor of these bills. So as I ask in the title of this thread: Why is GW against SOPA and PIPA?

Cause MGM can have GW
shut don with 1 phone call


Personally and sorry Darren but im for SOPA. For many reasons

[SF_and_Coffee]

What reasons could you possibly have, and would you care to enlighten us?

[Graybrew1]

Cause MGM can have GW
shut don with 1 phone call


Personally and sorry Darren but im for SOPA. For many reasons

Yes, are you familiar with the specifics of that Bill? Or just for one that would be similar but not as unlimited?

[Wolf O'Donnell]

I dont understand how it could pass is everyone seems to be so against it.

[jelgate]

I dont understand how it could pass is everyone seems to be so against it.

Money

[Graybrew1]

I dont understand how it could pass is everyone seems to be so against it.

Our govt never listens to us. LOL.

[Gatefan1976]

I have to say I'm leaning towards being in favor of these bills. So as I ask in the title of this thread: Why is GW against SOPA and PIPA?

People aren't so much *against them*, but what they *COULD* be used for. Others have outlined what laws like this could be used for and how it will impact on "generally law abiding citizens", and THAT is what they do not want. This reminds me of stuff like the prohabition or the supposed "war on drugs", NOTHING will happen to the big fish, in fact they will probably PROFIT from it, yet joe shmoe will get smacked to "prove" that there is "progress".
Does that sound good to you?

[Graybrew1]

People aren't so much *against them*, but what they *COULD* be used for. Others have outlined what laws like this could be used for and how it will impact on "generally law abiding citizens", and THAT is what they do not want. This reminds me of stuff like the prohabition or the supposed "war on drugs", NOTHING will happen to the big fish, in fact they will probably PROFIT from it, yet joe shmoe will get smacked to "prove" that there is "progress".
Does that sound good to you?

Well put , GF.

[LordRush]

Sucks that the ENTIRE NATION has to mobilize to offset the will of a handful of media executives.

One media executive can buy the influence that overrides millions of people.

Petition signed.

[Gatefan1976]

Sucks that the ENTIRE NATION has to mobilize to offset the will of a handful of media executives.

One media executive can buy the influence that overrides millions of people.

Petition signed.

While only somewhat related to this comment, I was listening to the Radio today and there is a movement to prohibit organizations from donating to political parties out here in Aus. The reason being that groups such as Businesses, Unions and Religious Groups, while representing *in theory* the "will of many", in fact generally don't anymore. The other reason, and probably the most important, is that "business entities" DON'T VOTE and have no right to vote either, and as such DESERVE no right to "push thier agenda" in return for financial considerations. IF this passes, (and to be honest, I don't think it will), ONLY individuals with voting power will have the ability to financially support a political party. Of course there will be gaps and "legal loopholes", but it's at least a step in the right direction IMHO.

[AlexanderD]

If anyone took the time to actually read the provisions of what is proposed, you would see that this is clearly not in the best interests of the Internet as we know it. Censorship at the behest of commercial lobbying is still censorship. Once we start down this path restrictions will become tighter. Case in point, look at the Patriot Act. In no way am I seeking to influence anyone's thoughts on this, but I would ask that you read the provisions in full before jumping up in support of this measure.

[Deevil]

Firstly I will discuss the legislation in regards to television shows.

Before I discuss SOPA and PIPA I want to eliminate the intentionally inflammatory language that is used to explain their existence and that's 'piracy' and 'theft'. What they are really talking about is copyright violation or intellectual property theft. Neither of these are a crime meaning they are governed by civil law not criminal law.

Currently when it comes to television (and movies to a lesser extent) there are a number of clauses in [copyright] law that allow the use of these programs without the permission of the copyright holder. Blogs, websites, fandom (meaning fansites, fanfic, fanart, fanvids) are protected by "the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) provides a safe harbor for bloggers and other content providers. If we use something that is technically under copyright, the copyright holder is obligated to notify us and request that the offending item be removed from our posting. " (for some reason I can't link that quote but I'll get back to it.)

Users are also protected, to a certain degree under the fair use clause in the Copyright Act, which allows people to use a copyrighted product. This covers commentary, reporting etc - but is currently untested for personal use of downloaded content. This of course doesn't mean it isn't covered, it just means that legally it hasn't been challenged.

Now SOPA and PIPA intend to remove these clauses and laws (and there are a number more I haven't mentioned, but these are the most popular) and write in instead that any website accused of having copyrighted content can be shut down. Read that again, it says accused.

At the risk of yet again repeating myself, any website that MPAA, RIAA, The Government etc accuse of having copyrighted content will be shut down (or black listed if they are hosted out of the country) before they can object, without immediate recourse. It allows people to be guilty until proven innocent. The website holder can be charged and jailed for 5 years for having, or linking to copyrighted content. Not to mentioned fined as well.

How does any of this STOP people downloading content that is in violation of copyright? Answer - it does not. How does this stop people from uploading and hosting it - also it does not as they'll just move off shore to countries WITHOUT extradition laws.

Websites like the one we are currently on will be blacklisted or shut down and Darren himself could find himself facing a judge.

Now as for movies, this is trickier as generally the only way to view movies is with a fee. A cinema, DVD sales etc. This is more likely to be a criminal case, as we saw with the guy who uploaded the work print of Wolverine. It's essentially larceny. BUT using clips etc would still be protected under the DMCA as it stands now - and yes copyright holders have asked people to take down clips etc.

Also it's worth noting that hurting fandom that surrounds TV and movies is not logically the best way to protect money raising efforts. Fans buy merchandise, they buy the DVD's (even if they initially acquire the show through questionable means), they also are a mouth piece for it and are helpful in advertising, or keeping a show, or movie, in public conciousness. To shut them down may cause more harm then good - and once again it doesn't protect against copyright violations.

Conspiracy Theorists, or people with a little bit of forethought have also postulated how the government can use these legislation's to shut down or shut out any website it wants regardless. They can be used to silence freedom of speech etc - which is protected by the constitution.

Also, just to add, these legislation's aren't only going to negatively affect the US internet, they'll affect the internet as the world knows it. This is unacceptable. We need to protect the internet and the knowledge and freedoms it brings. It's the beauty of the internet, and one that cannot be snuffed out because big business is complaining about a downturn in profits - one which I haven't seen TBH. ETA: As Skydiver said we ofen comment (as does the government) about censorship in China, or the Middle East - how can one reconcile this as different?

It's also worth noting that while the big business is fighting for SOPA and PIPA, many showrunners and movie producers acknowledge that this is not the way to go to stop piracy.

Damn, that was way longer then intended.

[AlexanderD]

Firstly I will discuss the legislation in regards to television shows.

Before I discuss SOPA and PIPA I want to eliminate the intentionally inflammatory language that is used to explain their existence and that's 'piracy' and 'theft'. What they are really talking about is copyright violation or intellectual property theft. Neither of these are a crime meaning they are governed by civil law not criminal law.

Currently when it comes to television (and movies to a lesser extent) there are a number of clauses in [copyright] law that allow the use of these programs without the permission of the copyright holder. Blogs, websites, fandom (meaning fansites, fanfic, fanart, fanvids) are protected by "the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) provides a safe harbor for bloggers and other content providers. If we use something that is technically under copyright, the copyright holder is obligated to notify us and request that the offending item be removed from our posting. " (for some reason I can't link that quote but I'll get back to it.)

Users are also protected, to a certain degree under the fair use clause in the Copyright Act, which allows people to use a copyrighted product. This covers commentary, reporting etc - but is currently untested for personal use of downloaded content. This of course doesn't mean it isn't covered, it just means that legally it hasn't been challenged.

Now SOPA and PIPA intend to remove these clauses and laws (and there are a number more I haven't mentioned, but these are the most popular) and write in instead that any website accused of having copyrighted content can be shut down. Read that again, it says accused.

At the risk of yet again repeating myself, any website that MPAA, RIAA, The Government etc accuse of having copyrighted content will be shut down (or black listed if they are hosted out of the country) before they can object, without immediate recourse. It allows people to be guilty until proven innocent. The website holder can be charged and jailed for 5 years for having, or linking to copyrighted content. Not to mentioned fined as well.

How does any of this STOP people downloading content that is in violation of copyright? Answer - it does not. How does this stop people from uploading and hosting it - also it does not as they'll just move off shore to countries WITHOUT extradition laws.

Websites like the one we are currently on will be blacklisted or shut down and Darren himself could find himself facing a judge.

Now as for movies, this is trickier as generally the only way to view movies is with a fee. A cinema, DVD sales etc. This is more likely to be a criminal case, as we saw with the guy who uploaded the work print of Wolverine. It's essentially larceny. BUT using clips etc would still be protected under the DMCA as it stands now - and yes copyright holders have asked people to take down clips etc.

Also it's worth noting that hurting fandom that surrounds TV and movies is not logically the best way to protect money raising efforts. Fans buy merchandise, they buy the DVD's (even if they initially acquire the show through questionable means), they also are a mouth piece for it and are helpful in advertising, or keeping a show, or movie, in public conciousness. To shut them down may cause more harm then good - and once again it doesn't protect against copyright violations.

Conspiracy Theorists, or people with a little bit of forethought have also postulated how the government can use these legislation's to shut down or shut out any website it wants regardless. They can be used to silence freedom of speech etc - which is protected by the constitution.

Also, just to add, these legislation's aren't only going to negatively affect the US internet, they'll affect the internet as the world knows it. This is unacceptable. We need to protect the internet and the knowledge and freedoms it brings. It's the beauty of the internet, and one that cannot be snuffed out because big business is complaining about a downturn in profits - one which I haven't seen TBH.

It's also worth noting that while the big business is fighting for SOPA and PIPA, many showrunners and movie producers acknowledge that this is not the way to go to stop piracy.

Damn, that was way longer then intended.

A stellar analysis! Bravo!