The Working Relationship Between Helen Magnus and Will Zimmerman --- Spoilers abound!

[fems]

I can understand the 'need' for a protege for Helen Magnus, even if she has been blessed/cursed with longevity (she's not immortal) because in her line of work she could easily be killed one day - if not accidental then on purpose - and someone would have to step in to take over where she left off. What I don't really get is why that person had to be someone on the 'outside', Will; wouldn't it make more sense to train someone who's already involved in the Sanctuary Network? Perhaps another head of a Sanctuary could take over after Magnus is gone and then their second-in-command can take over their Sanctuary, like Declan took over for Watson. Which reminds me that I'd love to hear more of Declan's background and how he got involved in the Sanctuary business.

[RealmOfX]

I think the problem is that some people define a protege as someone's replacement, which it is not. Unfortunately, this is how TPTB have been portraying Will but without giving him the skills, understanding or temperament to do the job.

[jckfan55]

That simple change is one of the reasons why I find it impossible to take Will seriously as a possible Sanctuary leader. His total inability to get people to take him seriously or keep his job and we're supposed to believe he can lead people and operate politically to keep the Sanctuary running and solve problems like Helen does?

It was rather telling in the 2nd episode when Magnus was missing & Will was trying to get through to Defense Dept and other bigwigs that they hung up on him. "No, Dr. Magnus isn't here." Click.

I'd like Will to return to being extremely observant and empathetic to other people's problems. Maybe then we'll stop getting these idiotic melodramatic scenes where Will spews a lot of personal nonsense at Helen showing just how unobservant or adult enough he is to handle extraordinary situations.

Iirc, they did away with the Willvision camera work b/c they thought it was kind of hokey. That doesn't mean they had to take away his perceptions. And I agree--talk about being clueless about people's feelings...

[jckfan55]

Helen is now near indestructible and all knowing, rarely caught out and caught off guard. She's all knowing, all seeing and always right. She's a little too perfect. And what's the good of having someone to call her on it if his way of doing it is to toss a tantrum and then continually be wrong anyway?

precisely

[Skydiver]

Magnus needs to be wrong every once ina while, and Will needs to be right...and not pissily right, but normally right. she's not infallible and it needs to come out every once in a while

[majorsal]

And what's the good of having someone to call her on it if his way of doing it is to toss a tantrum and then continually be wrong anyway?

this!!

[fems]

So... how do you guys think the working relationship between Helen and Will is affected by what happened in Sanctuary For None, Part I? Will there still be one?

What's your interpretation of Helen basically telling Will to take the job with SCIU? Had she planned it all along? Is it an integral part of her master plan or maybe she just wants him out of the way? If the latter, is it because she knows he won't approve of what she has to do, to keep him safe (and make sure he won't be treated as a terrorist or something) or maybe because she thinks he would stop her if he knew what she was up to?

Do you think Will will stay with SCIU after the finale, go back to the Sanctuary or just leave all together? Or maybe he's forced to take over the Sanctuary (Network) for some reason?

[jckfan55]

I'm not sure if she planned it, but it definitely seemed like she anticipated the possibility that SICU would call Will back to the FBI. Will is p***** with her for not clueing him in. Part of me understands that, but really I think he could be a liability if he knows too much. Also, knowing Magnus I'm sure she's trying to protect him as much as possible.
Will may owe her a big apology later if whatever her plan is works out...

[RealmOfX]

I'm not sure if she planned it, but it definitely seemed like she anticipated the possibility that SICU would call Will back to the FBI. Will is p***** with her for not clueing him in. Part of me understands that, but really I think he could be a liability if he knows too much. Also, knowing Magnus I'm sure she's trying to protect him as much as possible.
Will may owe her a big apology later if whatever her plan is works out...

SCUI didn't call him back to the FBI, he and Abby are with SCUI.

Will should be p***ed with himself for not seeing the possibility of it happening. Where are all his superior observational skills? There are a myriad of possibilities in the situation that the Sanctuary people find themselves in with some scenarios being more probable than others and yet Will has done no preparation or contingency planning.

Unfortunately I think the working relationship will be whatever the plot demands; as it has been for quite a long time

[jckfan55]

[fems]

In the finale there was a secret meeting between Magnus and Will after he (somehow) managed to unravel her secret, where Magnus more or less put him in his place by saying his ego was the least of her concerns. She also mentioned something about everything losing its purpose. Then, in the final scene he doesn't seem ready to forgive her for keeping secrets from him and thus willingly breaking her promise (no secrets) to him when he first came to work for her, yet he again joins her Sanctuary.

How do you think Will's discovery and her lies about staying in Nepal those 113 years will affect their working relationship? It seems like they both want to work together despite being hurt/betrayed by the other previously and are unable to forgive each other (The Depths and Sanctuary For None, Part Two).

[Skydiver]

I think Will likes the work, and the freedom that working for her gives him. Travel, knowledge, experiences. I think he's equally fascinated and scared by abbies. And it's interesting to do work where you can WORK without going through red tape and insurance and all that junk.

I think Magnus likes him and his spirit and his creative thinking...but I think there have also been things like him dropping her name at Alfredos and other bits of ego and 'me so smart' moments that have given her pause. That maybe sometimes he sees it as too much of a lark, lives too much in the present without looking at the future. That she finds his 'youthful enthusiasm' equal parts amusing and annoying. She sees promise in him but she also sees potential for failure.

And, like she said, she's very used to getting her own way, and while she may want and need the questioning and him making her justify her actions, she gets just as frustrated by it. Because it turns her job into a trial.

Him not seeing the potential to working for SCIU is an example. He expects to be told everything - which i can't totally fault - however I think she also expects him to figure things out for himself. To think ahead, not just to wait to have it handed to him.

[RealmOfX]

And, like she said, she's very used to getting her own way, and while she may want and need the questioning and him making her justify her actions, she gets just as frustrated by it. Because it turns her job into a trial.

But I think it only frustrates her and turns in to a trial when Will is acting immaturely (insert any other appropriate word), she seems perfectly acceptable to being questioned when it's warranted.

If we get a fifth season then I want to see Will gone but as that won't happen then I hope we see a mature Will who is NOT a partner or second in charge, he simply does not have the skills to fill those roles yet and there are now a fair few heads of house in need of work What I would like to see is Will :

• maturing and accepting responsibility for his own actions;
• being proactive and seeing things that need to be done, formulating a plan and presenting it to Magnus, accepting any feedback and then successfully carrying it out;
• using his psychiatric skills and help everyone in the new Sanctuary;
• using his hyper observational skills.

[jckfan55]

^I agree. One would hope he self-reflects and sees where his strengths and weaknesses are. That though he's come a long way he still has a lot to learn.

[Dean Grr]

First, this is an excellent thread and helps my understanding of Sanctuary. Thank-you!

Helen is now near indestructible and all knowing, rarely caught out and caught off guard. She's all knowing, all seeing and always right. She's a little too perfect. And what's the good of having someone to call her on it if his way of doing it is to toss a tantrum and then continually be wrong anyway?

As a guy watching the show, I wanted to see Will become more of an equal to Helen, and thought there might be an episode that shows him training in science, martial arts (being batted around by Biggie Some of the writing, like Will threatening Addison in "Untouchables", shows the writers are aware that Will is weak compared to Magnus.

In S4, Magnus really comes across as taking everything onto herself. I don't see why she didn't confide her underground sanctuary to Will, other than the writers withheld this for dramatic effect. That's the thing about television, the producers want to string out the story and create drama, when there isn't any. My hope was for Sanctuary to be more of an ensemble show, with each cast member showing their strengths, but for S4 the focus was on Will/Magnus.

[RealmOfX]

<snip>
As a guy watching the show, I wanted to see Will become more of an equal to Helen,

May I ask why? There's no reason for anyone to be Helen's equal they simply don't have the experience/qualifications to come even close.

I'd would have loved to have seen Will developing various skills and learning to use and apply them to benefit the Sanctuary but instead we got a petulant child mouthing off rather than constructively disagreeing when necessary with Helen.

[blueray]

i don't really think will is ready to take over. i think it would make more sense if someone from another sanctuary took over as the leader of the network (like declan), since he has a lot more experience then will does.

i hope that if there is a season 5 that there were more team seasons, because i like all the characters (well except abby).

[Dean Grr]

There's no reason for anyone to be Helen's equal they simply don't have the experience/qualifications to come even close.

You're right, given Helen's lifespan and experience, no one on the show is her equal. The fact that she has (14?) Sanctuary Heads to rely on, and take over from her is more than enough to preserve the Sanctuary's legacy. Will is not the warrior-scientist Magnus is, and that's something I wanted to see.

The Sanctuary's in a tough spot, trying to protect Abnormals from human intolerance, and vice versa. Perhaps with her talent and vast experience, Magnus has come to rely on her own judgement to the exclusion of others. Part of it, sadly, is that if she grows close to anyone, she slowly watches them age, and loses them. Perhaps, Will would have to receive the Source Blood treatment, or a way be found for Magnus to regain mortality.

[fems]

Perhaps, Will would have to receive the Source Blood treatment, or a way be found for Magnus to regain mortality.

Will doesn't deserve the Source Blood, in my opinion. The Five all contributed something, most of them were geniuses (not sure about Nigel and his sticky fingers) but Will is just hanging back, doing as he's told and whining when someone doesn't give him the answers. Besides, he's had his chances to become an abnormal and he didn't like it! If anything, I think he would only agree to getting the Source Blood injection if they can promise him he'll get "something cool" in return for it, like the gifts from The Five.

As for Magnus regaining her mortality, she already tried that once but realized the option would lead to the end of the world. There probably aren't any other ways unless she's willing to screw around with her DNA like we saw Nikola losing his Vampirism...

[helenmagnus23]

I agree with you both RoX & blueray Will is not ready to take over he still has a lot to learn and i noticed that also in season 4 when he didn't get what he wanted or wasn't satisfied with the out come or answer Helen gave him he would through a hissy fit or he would say something out of line.
He still has a lot to learn and i believe his relationship with Abby is affecting his judgement he seems to almost revert back to a child or teenager i reckon if he had and Abby had not pursued there relationship and just stayed friends Will could have read between the lines a lot earlier on and had seen the benefits of working for the dark side .
I don't think he could handle taking the source blood not after the events metamorphosis.