SGU Pilot: Hammond Versus 3 Ha'taks

[Snowman37]

I doubt the two episode took place just after the SGA finale. Everyone's wearing new uniforms, so I think it's safe to say that there's a good passage of time between SGA's final episode and the premiere of SGU. Besides, we can assume the Odyssey was running missions to Icarus Base until the George Hammond was up and running. Why launch the ship unfinished when another is available?

[KEK]

If the Hammond wasn't finished, why launch the ship at all, especially to such a super-secret base?

How do you mean? Surely ferrying a few personnel to a super secret base (or so they thought) makes it a perfect mission for an incomplete 304. As far as they knew, it was a very low risk mission, so better to send a glorified bus than weaken Earth's defences by sending one of our 304's that are actually capable of defending the planet.

[Quetzocoetl]

According to EatG, the Hammond wasn't finished, and I believe it was stated that Air takes place almost immediately after EatG.
Combine that with the fact that, according to the episode, it took a few weeks to get to Icarus from Earth, then it's easy to infer that the Hammond was ill-equipped at the time the L.A. attacked.

As for why they sent the Hammond instead of a more space worthy vessel, it's for the same reason Midway wasn't filled to the brim with security measures, they relied on the secrecy of the base as it's security measure. Why pour resources into mounting a defense for a base that only a handful of people know about?

[Snowman37]

How do you mean? Surely ferrying a few personnel to a super secret base (or so they thought) makes it a perfect mission for an incomplete 304. As far as they knew, it was a very low risk mission, so better to send a glorified bus than weaken Earth's defences by sending one of our 304's that are actually capable of defending the planet.

How does sending a ship out weaken Earth's defenses when there's three other ships and the almost finished George Hammond?

According to EatG, the Hammond wasn't finished, and I believe it was stated that Air takes place almost immediately after EatG.

Can you cite dialogue to confirm this?

Combine that with the fact that, according to the episode, it took a few weeks to get to Icarus from Earth, then it's easy to infer that the Hammond was ill-equipped at the time the L.A. attacked.

Again, there's four other ships to choose from to send to Icarus. Why send an incomplete ship? That's downright incompetent when there's four finished ships to choose from.

As for why they sent the Hammond instead of a more space worthy vessel, it's for the same reason Midway wasn't filled to the brim with security measures, they relied on the secrecy of the base as it's security measure.

Sure, and look how that worked out for the Midway station.

Why pour resources into mounting a defense for a base that only a handful of people know about?

The unexpected always happens, especially in Stargate, that's why. Besides, how often do we see any mission actually go as planned?

[KEK]

How does sending a ship out weaken Earth's defenses when there's three other ships and the almost finished George Hammond?

Because four finished ships is a more formidable defence than three, obviously.

[Quadhelix]

Can you cite dialogue to confirm this?

Not dialogue, but this post on Joseph Mallozzi's blog says that "Air" took place a few days after "Enemy at the Gate."

In other words, at that point, the Sun Tzu and Apollo were disabled in intergalactic space, the Daedalus was still weeks away in or near Pegasus, and the Odyssey may well have still been off on its "secret mission"; even if the Odyssey was back, it was the only ship that Earth had at its disposal and, for all of Atlantis's advanced tech, Atlantis is a city not a warship.

Overall, the Hammond was the only working ship that they could spare.




Also, I've said this before and I'll say it here: the only reason that you think that it was a bad idea to send the unfinished Hammond is because you have the benefit of hindsight, knowing that something did go wrong.




EDIT:
I want to address this:

The unexpected always happens, especially in Stargate, that's why. Besides, how often do we see any mission actually go as planned?

The issue isn't how often we see missions go as planned, but rather how often the characters see missions go as planned. This distinction is important, because the entire point of a TV show is that it focuses on the interesting and unusual events. For every mission interesting enough to be made into an episode, there are probably dozens were SG-1 goes to a planet, digs up some unusual rocks, and comes home.

[Akai]

The Hammond wasn't the target. The Ha'taks came out of hyperspace and immediately started bombarding the planet, and also released a ton of smaller ships. Basically, they showed up with a ton of targets very fast, and the Hammond couldn't destroy them all fast enough. They were actually using the Hammond to try to block some of the weapons fire that was directed at the planet, and even then they weren't in any real danger. The issue wasn't whether the Ha'taks could be destroyed...they easily could've been. The problem was, between them and all the small ships, the Hammond couldn't destroy them fast enough to save the planet. It was never implied that the Hammond itself was in any danger at all.

[jimbeamjunior]

thank goodness they did only have/use railguns and lost the battle

if they wiped out the LA and the icarus base was kept safe, then SGU wouldnt have happened like we all loved

[Nth Chevron]

I think it was meant to be mentioned somewhere that, due to the info stolen by Telford, LA ships shields are now heavily resistant to the APBW's.

I was a bit iffy on that as a legitimate reason as Telford could have stolen much more.

The only reason i barely tolerate it, is that it wouldnt make for much suspense about the LA attack on Earth if all 5 304's could bring more power to bear than the entire LA fleet.

N.C

[Calluna]

I think the answer is basically "Because TPTB said so". Most of them were never interested in power capbabilities of various civilsations in comparison to Earth e.g Wraith tech was a threat or not depending on the episode. That goes for even less about the secondary plots. Need a couple of SG1 personnel to destroy an entire LA station? Done. Need the LA to suddenly become a threatening intergalatic messianic-cult? Done. Just handwave Earth getting the Asguard tech as "Everyone has upgraded".

If it was supposed to be because Telford stole info for the LA then I wish they would have shown that he was indeed a traitor for his own reasons as that could have been interesting, not just retconned as "Brainwashed".

[Quizziard]

If it was supposed to be because Telford stole info for the LA then I wish they would have shown that he was indeed a traitor for his own reasons as that could have been interesting, not just retconned as "Brainwashed".

Is there a difference between retconned and "has occurred but we've not been shown yet"?

[Aesop]

I've heard it said that the Lucian Alliance somehow managed to upgrade their Ha'tak's to better match the Tau'ri ships. How, I don't know. Maybe in the post-Goa'uld/-Ori galaxy Asgard weapons are less effective..?

Also, if we just go by air dates, then 9-10 months have passed between the events of Enemy At The Gate and Air, Part 1, so unless the hull was the only thing completed on the Hammond it doesn't seem like it would still be incomplete 9-10 months later. Seeing as how the Odyssey was also rushed into service in Off The Grid, yet it seemed to be fully operational within a short amount of time. I could be wrong though.

[KEK]

Where did you 'hear' that?

[Snowman37]

Not dialogue, but this post on Joseph Mallozzi's blog says that "Air" took place a few days after "Enemy at the Gate."

That blog is excessively long. Can you quote the paragraph so that I may find it in the blog entry?

In other words, at that point, the Sun Tzu and Apollo were disabled in intergalactic space, the Daedalus was still weeks away in or near Pegasus, and the Odyssey may well have still been off on its "secret mission"; even if the Odyssey was back, it was the only ship that Earth had at its disposal and, for all of Atlantis's advanced tech, Atlantis is a city not a warship.

Overall, the Hammond was the only working ship that they could spare.

Perhaps, but there's nothing in the episode to support this, is there? Not everyone is going to go reading Mallozzi's blog. If I didn't come here to ask about this, I would have just assumed bad writing. I hate bad writing.

Also, I've said this before and I'll say it here: the only reason that you think that it was a bad idea to send the unfinished Hammond is because you have the benefit of hindsight, knowing that something did go wrong.

It's the U.S. Military and the fictional SGC. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. It's downright idiotic and incompetent to go on a mission without being fully prepared.

[Quadhelix]

That blog is excessively long. Can you quote the paragraph so that I may find it in the blog entry?

Sure:

Ruffles writes: “ 1. How much time has passed since Enemy at the Gate?

. . .

Answers: 1. Well, it aired January 9th, so almost three months. Oh, if you’re wondering about in relation to SGU – maybe days. And if you’re wondering in relation to the Atlantis movie – maybe a week.

Perhaps, but there's nothing in the episode to support this, is there? Not everyone is going to go reading Mallozzi's blog. If I didn't come here to ask about this, I would have just assumed bad writing. I hate bad writing.

Okay, there isn't anything in the episode either way, but you have to remember that the show was partially written to absorb a new audience.

If they are going to explain that the Asgard weapons weren't installed, then they have to explain to the new views that the ship has Asgard weapons, whose only role in the episode is not to be there. That, itself, would have been bad writing.

They could, of course, have mentioned in the episode that Atlantis arrived at Earth a few days earlier, but I'm not really sure where.

In any case, it's not a continuity error. Whether they could have explained things better in the episode is another question.

It's the U.S. Military and the fictional SGC. Anything that can go wrong will go wrong. It's downright idiotic and incompetent to go on a mission without being fully prepared.

Again, it was a milk run - of course it can go wrong, but it is not necessarily likely.

Moreover, even if they were aware of a decent risk of an armed attack on Icarus, it could still be a legitimate decision to focus on defending Earth and let Icarus be destroyed if it's attacked.