Closing Time (3212)

[SaberBlade]

That's right. If you recall, the River that was invited to the beach along with Amy and Rory was already locked up in the Stormcage for murder. So why River on the beach doesn't recognise the circumstances surrounding the murder and seems to be genuinely surprised by it all is something that is yet to be answered.

River may not have known the circumstances surrounding his death, as The Silence could have erased it from her memory.

Just after The Doctor dies she shoots at the Astronaut and nothing happens. She says something like "no, of course not". It's very possible that River knows she killed The Doctor and was doing time for it, but never knew the circumstances surrounding it, such as when, where or how.

So she knows she kills him, but it wasn't until she witnessed it that everything came together.

- Why would the 1103 doctor choose to contact the Rory and Amy from BEFORE he left them for 200 years?

The Doctor knows the circumstances surrounding his death (maybe not all of it, but enough) so he knows that Amy, Rory and River were there when it happened (not sure about Canton). As a result he knows that he needs to invite them again or else he'll be changing his own past and future which could be catastrophic.

If it's River in the Space Suit the kills him, and she is in prison for killing him, then the version of her that goes to Utah/1969 is a version from after those events?

Yes. The version of River of who kills the The Doctor is still early in her regeneration, so barring any unexpected adventures she'll have been studying at Luna University for a few years in order to earn her doctorate. So none of the other episodes she's appeared in has happened for her yet, with the killing of The Doctor being much later in her life (but before Ten meets her).

[aintright]

I was completely surprised at seeing River. But I still don't think she is going to kill the Doctor. It far too obvious for the Moff IMO.

me either ... i am stepping wayyyyyyy out and think that Daddy (Rory) will take her place! .... ok i know it is a stretch. but, would Rory or The Dr. want River to have to live with that? Don't you think as much as she loves the DR. she would remember that? wouldn't it be in her diary(well i guess it was but, no notes of what the occasion was?)

could it be something that Rory and the Dr. worked out?

The Silence will fall when the questions is asked? Question - why do I have to die? then the silence will fall. does the Dr. have to die to fulfill some squashing of the Silence? He has spoken an awful lot about how much he invested into saving the earth from the Silence.

dunno ... but, agree ... can't see Moffitt being so obvious. Yet, could see him changing original intentions if he thinks it would be a twist and too much chatter of it not being River.

*headdesk*


will wait patiently to find out ... will wait patiently to find out ... will wait patiently to find out.


one more point .... seemed person by the beach hut in UTAH ... second Silence guy "they are your handlers"?

patience ... patience ....


teehee!!

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

He likes being called "Alfie" now. Attachment 32041

But The Doctor did call him Stormageddon a lot... more often than seemed necessary.. *thinks Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All might be coming back at some point*

[Quizziard]

"they are your handlers"?

I thought Kovarian said, "They are your owners!"

[Quizziard]

- Why would the 1103 doctor choose to contact the Rory and Amy from BEFORE he left them for 200 years?

Apart from logic/maths, was there anything in the episode to confirm that he's just been away for two hundred years - almost a fifth of his life, "off screen" - adventuring without the audience, just to fill the gap before coming back to Craig's house?

[rosey_angel]

GAH! Young people! I've been watching a few fan reviews of "Closing Time" and I am amazed at how many young fans think that the Cybermats were called "cyber rats" and that they are brand new characters. No sense of Who history.

I think if I heard anyone calling them cyber-rats I'd kick them in the shins.

Yes, and then tell them that the pain they just felt must have been caused by CYBERMATS!

...

I haven't read the forums elsewhere, but yeah -- no sense of D.WHO history. Or, maybe they've just never seen any Patrick Troughton (Doctor #2) eppies yet.
I think the biggest difference between the latest Cybermats and the ones during Tom Baker's era is that the teeth don't look like a cartoon of felt glued onto the mouth. Plus, they now light up red in their underspines like Cylons (of the newest BSG series). =)

If I may speak on behalf of some of the 'newbies' to Dr Who, a simple mistake of calling them cyber-rats over cybermats isn't that bad when you consider that they look like rats and the woman at the shop referred to it as a mouse. And as for no sense of Who history- it's a very long history that has been changed around a tad over the years (thanks in part to RTD) and it can be very hard getting a hold of all of the old Who eps and finding time to watch them all.
I know none of you were being rude or mean to us new-vians (whovians, new-vians... get it... oh ) and it's nice to have threads with people who have sene the old eps and can recall when old characters make appearances.

[rosey_angel]

oops in all that I forgot to write a review lol. Great ep, I love the chemistry between Craig and the Doctor and now that Craig is a dad the humour level was so high it was hilarious. Stormy/Alfie was great but I kept thinking that he was going to have something to do with the cybermen, the way he kept talking about humans as peasants for example.

This was a great ep for Matt Smith because it really showed off his comedy and tragedy side and how quickly he can swap between them.

[Alan]

Cybermat: http://www.forbiddenplanet.co.uk/ind...ducts_id=66667

[Draygon]

Cybermat: http://www.forbiddenplanet.co.uk/ind...ducts_id=66667

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE*takes breath*EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

[SaberBlade]

Cybermat: http://www.forbiddenplanet.co.uk/ind...ducts_id=66667

I could never get that. My cat would attack it and it would scare the crap out of my dog.

[Davros]

I'm new here...but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Has anyone noticed the changing jackets? All season long the Doctor has been switching between jackets...his normal one, and the western long coat. The long coat would seem to be the older doctor who is slated to die in Utah. Just like the ganger and the shoes...Moffat could be playing switcheroo between the doctors. Also...what if Kovarian isn't River, but Amy? The old Amy who hates the doctor? Somehow regenerated or altered in someway? Thus...Old Amy steals young Amy's daughter for the purpose of killing the man she hates for leaving her behind.

Also...what if the Doctor who dies is actually a Ganger? And what if that Ganger built the machine in last season's The Lodger?

Just things to think about.

Thanks for your time.

[Cold Fuzz]

I'm new here...but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Has anyone noticed the changing jackets? All season long the Doctor has been switching between jackets...his normal one, and the western long coat. The long coat would seem to be the older doctor who is slated to die in Utah. Just like the ganger and the shoes...Moffat could be playing switcheroo between the doctors. Also...what if Kovarian isn't River, but Amy? The old Amy who hates the doctor? Somehow regenerated or altered in someway? Thus...Old Amy steals young Amy's daughter for the purpose of killing the man she hates for leaving her behind.

Also...what if the Doctor who dies is actually a Ganger? And what if that Ganger built the machine in last season's The Lodger?

Just things to think about.

Thanks for your time.

The events and underground architecture we saw in "Day of the Moon" pretty much indicate that the TARDIS-like machine we saw in "The Lodger" last season was likely something that belonged to the Silence.

[Alan]

I could never get that. My cat would attack it and it would scare the crap out of my dog.

Such is the order of animals. The cat attacks the Cybermat...the Cybermat scares the dog...the dog chases the cat...and the cycle repeats.

[aintright]

I'm new here...but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Has anyone noticed the changing jackets? All season long the Doctor has been switching between jackets...his normal one, and the western long coat. The long coat would seem to be the older doctor who is slated to die in Utah. Just like the ganger and the shoes...Moffat could be playing switcheroo between the doctors. Also...what if Kovarian isn't River, but Amy? The old Amy who hates the doctor? Somehow regenerated or altered in someway? Thus...Old Amy steals young Amy's daughter for the purpose of killing the man she hates for leaving her behind.

Also...what if the Doctor who dies is actually a Ganger? And what if that Ganger built the machine in last season's The Lodger?

Just things to think about.

Thanks for your time.

i had been pondering the switcheroo of the two doctors and somehow that would allow for appearance of the Dr. dying in Utah and yet, the Dr. lives on.

something along Aslan in chronicles.




teehee!!

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I've been thinking about how the universe was rebooted.. could a version of the Doctor have crossed over into the new universe? He did go through the crack in the wall.. ceasing to exist in that universe.. but things can't just disappear.. everything has to go somewhere

[4thDoctor]

I've been wondering if they may not still be in the realm of the Dream Lord and that none of this is even happening.

[Cold Fuzz]

I've been thinking about how the universe was rebooted.. could a version of the Doctor have crossed over into the new universe? He did go through the crack in the wall.. ceasing to exist in that universe.. but things can't just disappear.. everything has to go somewhere

I think that if there were issues about how the universe was rebooted, they'd have dealt with them by now. But then again, with Moffat, I think he's got one final rabbit to pull out of his hat.

I've been wondering if they may not still be in the realm of the Dream Lord and that none of this is even happening.

I doubt that. I don't think that Moffat would pull a Bob Newhart on us and write off the entire 6th season as a dream.

[Ian-S]

I dunno, we didn't even meet the real Amy until half way through the series...

I see also they have a picture of the Doctor on the BBC site now with the eye patch... I still think that's a way to stop you forgetting the Silence.

[Cold Fuzz]

I dunno, we didn't even meet the real Amy until half way through the series...

I see also they have a picture of the Doctor on the BBC site now with the eye patch... I still think that's a way to stop you forgetting the Silence.

Actually, that's what I was thinking about the eye patch.

[Sealurk]

Me as well. Not sure quite how they work, but it seems to make sense given the prequel clip, at least one trailer and the publicity shots we've seen.