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Thread: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    I don't think that's clear at all. Didn't she reply "She knows"? - i.e. replying to something like "tell River that I love her". It would be an odd reply to being told his name. And "tell her that John Smith loves her" is an awkward way of phrasing it. We've already had (Shakespeare Code) that someone's name is powerful - leading up to the unknown question for The Silence.
    Would it? Really?

    She's evidentally impotant in his life, after all 'Mels' thinks hes calling out to her for help. So if he whispers to her 'tell her my name is.... XXXXX', of course she'll look at him funny and say 'I'm sure she knows'. It was a patronising, condescending comment, not, 'I'm sure she knows you love her', which would have been more likely said in a soft way to put his mind at ease.

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    River's regeneration history doesn't make any sense.

    • She's the girl in 1969
    • Suspected of somehow killing the Doctor in 2011 (but I doubt it's her in the suit that kills him, possibly a future pre-Library River if he's the "good man" she goes to Prison for killing, but I think the suit is Amy and the person killed is Rory).
    • Regenerates into "a toddler in the middle of New York" (which would have been 1970)
    • Is able to amazing slow down her age because somehow finds her way to Leadworth in 1997 where as a girl of about 8 she beings to age normally with Amy and Rory.


    There is either two people in the suit, or someone is helping Melody travel through time so I think there has to be a regeneration between the 1970 regeneration and 1997 that ultimately results her being taken to Leadworth and being able to fit in with Amy and Rory.

    As for giving up her regenerations to save the Doctor, I saw her giving up regeneration energy to save him but I didn't expect her to give up all regenerations. Bit of a cheat really because we know she'll never use them (so seemed pointless) but an easy way to extend the Doctor's regenerations, which makes me wonder if the entire story of Amy, Rory and River was ultimately about keeping the show on the air as the Doctor should have one regeneration left. After this, I've given up all expectations they'll ever find Melody as a baby.



  3. #43
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carter1994 View Post
    Holy Cow.

    That was... wow.

    Figured out Mels was River as soon as she came out of the cell. Mels's swagger was EXACTLY like River's. River's regeneration scene was great as well (and the banana! ); evil!River was kinda intriguing.
    Yes Nina Toussaint-White did mange to match Rivers swagger and persona very well.
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  4. #44
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydiver View Post
    anyone know, the 'immune system' of the robot...sounded like James Earl Jones......was it him or a soundalike?

    this was just an enjoyable episode, just when I thought they were setting aside some arc stuff for regular episodes, they do this. But it's fine.

    what i wonder about the 'silence'.....silence comes from nothing. what if the silence is the end....death of everything. (Unless it ties back to 'silence in the library'
    I thought it sounded like Tom Baker

    It was a great episode imo, but a tad predictable. i guessed Mel was River and guessed she'd "give" the doctor her remaining regenerations.

    although did they say she gave them to him? i thought she said she "used up her remaining regenerations to heal him"?


  5. #45
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by SaberBlade View Post
    River's regeneration history doesn't make any sense.

    • She's the girl in 1969
    • Suspected of somehow killing the Doctor in 2011 (but I doubt it's her in the suit that kills him, possibly a future pre-Library River if he's the "good man" she goes to Prison for killing, but I think the suit is Amy and the person killed is Rory).
    • Regenerates into "a toddler in the middle of New York" (which would have been 1970)
    • Is able to amazing slow down her age because somehow finds her way to Leadworth in 1997 where as a girl of about 8 she beings to age normally with Amy and Rory.


    There is either two people in the suit, or someone is helping Melody travel through time so I think there has to be a regeneration between the 1970 regeneration and 1997 that ultimately results her being taken to Leadworth and being able to fit in with Amy and Rory.

    As for giving up her regenerations to save the Doctor, I saw her giving up regeneration energy to save him but I didn't expect her to give up all regenerations. Bit of a cheat really because we know she'll never use them (so seemed pointless) but an easy way to extend the Doctor's regenerations, which makes me wonder if the entire story of Amy, Rory and River was ultimately about keeping the show on the air as the Doctor should have one regeneration left. After this, I've given up all expectations they'll ever find Melody as a baby.
    I also dont think her timeline has been completely shown, because if we are following in the timeline of each time the Doctor meets River/Mels, River is younger, next time we see River, it should be Mels...
    And we know the Doctor has never met Mels before this point as she would have recognised him in the cornfield...

    I also agree with Alan regarding the spacesuit being River that kills the Doctor. If it is her killing the Doctor, shouldnt she remember this while watching and so she would know what happened next to herself. Why would she attempt to shoot at herself? She also seemed genuinely shocked when it happened, like she wasnt expecting it, either she was acting because she knew, or she genuinely didnt know that was going to happen...

    Also, shouldnt River remember it was her in the spacesuit, or recognise it? If Alans timeline is correct, the Silence come after her being inserted into the spacesuit so shouldnt she remember or atleast recognise it? Or does she remember and she doesnt want to reveal 'Spoliers' to the Doctor.
    Corr, this timeline stuff is confusing!
    Sorry if that makes no sense...
    Last edited by Teddybrown; August 28th, 2011 at 04:07 AM.

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  6. #46
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    [QUOTE=Teddybrown;12869286]In real life, no, but in the Whoverse, anythings possible!

    Looks like they are doing the secret messages in the Fourth Dimension again...
    Heres what was found
    “When Reason Slept
    Not sure what this one means. But the has not been reasonable for a long time with his enemies.
    When Mothers Wept
    When Amy cried in the episode before last when her daughter was taken.

    When soldiers Crept
    The solders under the doctor command crept into that asteroid base.

    The Monsters came”
    That sound like the next episode. Which was looking like a self contained story, but may be it is not self contained after all and is part of the bigger story.


    As for the Doctors death, I will stand my ground till proven wrong =P lol
    Good for you.
    Last edited by knowles2; August 28th, 2011 at 04:35 AM.

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Teddybrown View Post
    I also dont think her timeline has been completely shown, because if we are following in the timeline of each time the Doctor meets River/Mels, River is younger, next time we see River, it should be Mels...
    And we know the Doctor has never met Mels before this point as she would have recognised him in the cornfield...
    She did say it was the first time they had met, so would have been rude to kill him then. We also know that Amy created small Doctor dolls so I don't think she'd have any trouble recognising him especially when he's the only person there (other than her parents) standing in front of a blue police box.
    --
    Anyone got any ideas on the fish custard or tuxedo? The TARDIS voice interactive program pointed this out, as I thought it would have been a cure but he still died, so I'm wondering when that will be explained because bit strange that with 32 minutes left to live, he'd rush off to do something.



  8. #48
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Also, shouldnt River remember it was her in the spacesuit, or recognise it?
    She did connect a few of the dots after she fire her gun at it, she said "of cause not" this points to her putting together the events an recognising what is happening. So river from that point onwards, knows who kills the doctor.

    Which given the info at the moment the most sensibly answer is Meloney.

    Memory wipes or memory manipulation could also explain why she attempted to do the same thing in the future or it could just be the simplistic programming of her, so even through she kills the doctor once, when she sees him alive she attempts to do the same thing again, and will do so every time she meets him, until the programming is remove.

    Anyone got any ideas on the fish custard or tuxedo? The TARDIS voice interactive program pointed this out, as I thought it would have been a cure but he still died, so I'm wondering when that will be explained because bit strange that with 32 minutes left to live, he'd rush off to do something.
    I thought the same as you, that it would be a cure.

    The only idea I can come up with, is that the events of that evening was enough to make Amy fall in love with him and spends her entire life running after him. Perhaps it was the Tardis way of telling the doctor he needed to do something similar with Mel/River Song, so that she feel in love with the doctor there and then and sacrifice her own immortality to bring him back alive.
    In a way it was a cure, just not directly. The tux is then the equivalent of the custard and fish fingers.

    Love the voice interface mode of the Tardis, I think this season has given us more information and features of the Tardis than any other season I have watch.
    Last edited by knowles2; August 28th, 2011 at 04:34 AM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    I thought the same as you, that it would be a cure.

    The only idea I can come up with, is that the events of that evening was enough to make Amy fall in love with him and spends her entire life running after him. Perhaps it was the Tardis way of telling the doctor he needed to do something similar with Mel/River Song, so that she feel in love with the doctor there and then and sacrifice her own immortality to bring him back alive.
    In a way it was a cure, just not directly.


    Love the voice interface mode of the Tardis, I think this season has given us more information and features of the Tardis than any other season I have watch.
    as for the tux, the doctor wanted to go out in style ?


  10. #50
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Billz View Post
    I'm looking forward to seeing that.
    There is no evidence to prove at the moment that

    a) The person in the spacesuit coming out of the water is Melody, and isn't in fact someone else

    b) The Spacesuit found in that warehouse is the same one that came out of the water.

    It's all based on assumptions. There is no proof, sorry .

    But i'm sure we'll find out by the end of the season.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoniser View Post
    There is no evidence to prove at the moment that

    a) The person in the spacesuit coming out of the water is Melody, and isn't in fact someone else

    b) The Spacesuit found in that warehouse is the same one that came out of the water.

    It's all based on assumptions. There is no proof, sorry .

    But i'm sure we'll find out by the end of the season.
    except the tesselecta crew said, melody pond was the person who killed the doctor, and that the doctors death was a fixed point, destined to happen at the lake in utah


  12. #52
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Demoniser View Post
    There is no evidence to prove at the moment that

    a) The person in the spacesuit coming out of the water is Melody, and isn't in fact someone else

    b) The Spacesuit found in that warehouse is the same one that came out of the water.

    It's all based on assumptions. There is no proof, sorry .

    But i'm sure we'll find out by the end of the season.
    There no proof, apart from everything we have been told so far saying Rive Song/meloney is that one that kills the doctor, the people in the robots thought so, the doctor thinks so, it the only explanation that makes any sense, and anything else will just add more story and more details to a story that is already pretty complicated story for what essentially a kid programme. Last night episode simplified that story a little and connected the dots together.
    It makes little sense in my mind that the writers would throw in more plot twists on this thread of the story.
    Last edited by knowles2; August 28th, 2011 at 06:05 AM.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    There no proof, apart from everything we have been told so far saying Rive Song/meloney is that one that kills the doctor, the people in the robots thought so, the doctor thinks so, it the only explanation that makes any sense, and anything else will just add more story and more details to a story that is already pretty complicated story for what essentially a kid programme. Last night episode simplified that story a little and connected the dots together.
    It makes little sense in my mind that the writers would through in more plot twists on this thread of the story.
    FAMILY show.
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  14. #54
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan View Post
    FAMILY show.
    its a good point, regardless of its audience its getting mighty complicated


  15. #55
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by stargatefan234 View Post
    its a good point, regardless of its audience its getting mighty complicated
    But thats Moffats style though! Lol

    By the way Knowles2, just to point out, its Melody, not Meloney Unless your talking about someone else?

    As most of you probably know, Im part of the camp who think its not River in the suit killing the Doctor.
    Your points are valid on how it could be River, some of the evidence is pointing towards her, but consider this, has history been wrong before? What Im trying to say is, could all the historical records on that days event be wrong? Maybe all the records say it was River Song who did it, but really, it wasnt... Maybe the Tesselectar crews data is wrong?

    There is no evidence to prove at the moment that

    a) The person in the spacesuit coming out of the water is Melody, and isn't in fact someone else

    b) The Spacesuit found in that warehouse is the same one that came out of the water.

    It's all based on assumptions. There is no proof, sorry .

    But i'm sure we'll find out by the end of the season.
    I agree with these points.

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  16. #56
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by knowles2 View Post
    There no proof, apart from everything we have been told so far saying Rive Song/meloney is that one that kills the doctor, the people in the robots thought so, the doctor thinks so, it the only explanation that makes any sense, and anything else will just add more story and more details to a story that is already pretty complicated story for what essentially a kid programme. Last night episode simplified that story a little and connected the dots together.
    It makes little sense in my mind that the writers would throw in more plot twists on this thread of the story.
    Even though it isn't actually a kids show, it has been my experience that Kids understand the temporal shinanigans of the Doctor even better than most adults.
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  17. #57
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    So the Silence is also a religious order. Bloody hell there's a lot of those about this series.......

    A religious sect who believe that the Universe ends when a question is asked..

    Well what if the question really is
    Spoiler:
    "what is the Doctor's name"


    Why should he be more important then any other Timelord from Galifrey? I find that a bit egotistical to think he and only he could have such power over the whole universe where there were other Timelords who had done far more powerful things like Rassilon and such. And yet we know his name so why is there no drama when you mention the name Rassilon out loud?
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  18. #58
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    I wouldn't mind seeing Jenny come back. I wonder where in space/time she is?
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  19. #59
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    So the Silence is also a religious order. Bloody hell there's a lot of those about this series.......

    A religious sect who believe that the Universe ends when a question is asked..

    Well what if the question really is
    Spoiler:
    "what is the Doctor's name"


    Why should he be more important then any other Timelord from Galifrey? I find that a bit egotistical to think he and only he could have such power over the whole universe where there were other Timelords who had done far more powerful things like Rassilon and such. And yet we know his name so why is there no drama when you mention the name Rassilon out loud?
    In the Season 25 stories Remembrance of the Daleks and Silver Nemesis, there were hints that the Doctor was far more than just another Time Lord...that he might have had a bigger part to play in Gallifreyan history and also particularly during The Dark Times and The Time of Chaos.

    If indeed the question is "Doctor who?" then the answers: the Doctor's secrets, his history and his very name might be terrible enough for him to want to keep as hidden and as buried as possible.
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  20. #60
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    Default Re: Let's Kill Hitler (3208)

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    So the Silence is also a religious order. Bloody hell there's a lot of those about this series.......

    A religious sect who believe that the Universe ends when a question is asked..

    Well what if the question really is
    Spoiler:
    "what is the Doctor's name"


    Why should he be more important then any other Timelord from Galifrey? I find that a bit egotistical to think he and only he could have such power over the whole universe where there were other Timelords who had done far more powerful things like Rassilon and such. And yet we know his name so why is there no drama when you mention the name Rassilon out loud?
    I don't think that is the question as people have asked it before I'm sure unless it has to be asked at a specific point. Now as for why we know the name of Rassilon and other time lords such as Romana but not The Doctor's name is because The Doctor and others similar to him were rebellious renegade Time Lords who didn't observe the non interference policy of the majority of Time Lords and as a result gave up their names and took on titles such as The Master, The Rani, The Corsair and The Doctor.

    By all means that may be the question but I would hope it was something less obvious and as this series so far has shown that is more than possible.

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