Immortal Sins (407)

[Flyboy]

I missed that reference completely. Fill me in?

The "Goa'uld" was put into the hands of the 'bad guys' by the Trickster's Brigade, according to Jack. The Trickster's first appearance was in The Sarah Jane Adventures episode: Whatever Happened to Sarah Jane?. The Trickster was named when Alan, Maria's father, first sees it and attempts to charge at it. So far the Trickster has only ever appeared in TSJA, but the Trickster's Brigade has been in Doctor Who, - Turn Left. It's the first Torchwood mention of The Trickster's Brigade, and it's not surprising, because the Trickster is actually quite laughable as a singularly entity, but quite chilling as a concept, hence why I think outside of TSJA the 'brigade' is utilised by writers, not the Trickster.

[DigiFluid]

Ahh okay. Yes, I remember the Trickster very well. I just missed the line in TW

[thecolouryes]

Flyboy: The small stuff gets me, too. I tend to use those little minor details to determine how much care/thought the directors, casting department, make-up and props, etc. invest in the realism of a show. Also, I completely don't understand why Jack has the coat. In all of the episodes that he was a companion in new series 1 of Doctor Who, he changed his outfit and -- get this! -- blended it. And then he comes back to life and suddenly has to look like he's from the 1940s?? I thought Torchwood would have offered some explanation by now for why he would keep that look past the '40s when he was happy to blend in with the outfits of the late 19th Century (I'm remembering a flashback in one of the first two seasons of Torchwood, don't remember which episode, but when Jack was explaining about the founding of Torchwood), but it just looks like their costume department is lazy now. *shrug* At least the plotlines aren't meaningless.

[Spimman]

The real question is...if Jack is\becomes The Face of Bo...does he still own the coat?

[thecolouryes]

The real question is...if Jack is\becomes The Face of Bo...does he still own the coat?

He's made it into some sort of special covering for that silly tank getup. Of course.

[Cairistiona]

Uh, a bit slow, but at least some explanations. And now I'm curious again who's behind it all and why. And the coat, of course

[Darren]

Just ended on BBC in the U.K. I appreciated the backstory and the fact that Jack has a relationship with the person who seems to be pulling the strings behind the Miracle (or is at least close to them). It's not just going to be a no-name who steps out from behind the curtain. And Angelo has a legitimate beef with Jack, even if from Jack's perspective the guy was a Judas.

The writing wasn't bad, if a bit slashfic-happy. I did have to avert my delicate eyes at one point (presumably the U.S. edit was wang-free?). I did appreciate the later car dialogue -- Gwen and Jack finally being honest about their relationship. It's kinda twisted and disfunctional, at the end of the day. Either the characters have no clue what it means to love someone (i.e. self-sacrificially, putting their needs before your own), or the writers don't. I'll assume they're just writing the characters as authentic, flawed human beings.

[DigiFluid]

I haven't seen the UK version, but I'm pretty sure I saw some sausage in the Starz version.

Can't say I have any desire to go back and double-check though

[Matt G]

1. Fair point about the coat in 1927. Bear in mind Jack went through WWII at least twice before he first joined Torchwood so he would certainly have had it. Possibly still lazy writing but it's plausible that there was a 1920 coat that looked similar enough to it that he thought he could give his favourite coat an early airing.

2. Angelo...I'm going for him becoming one of the first beneficiaries of immortality.

3. Gwen...interesting exchange but Torchwood was always dysfunctional so meh.

4. Generally liked the 1920s stuff...the reference to "family" foreshadowed something ugly happening given that "families" were referenced before.

Let's see what happens now...

[Naonak]

The story of the scorned lover in the 20s should have been told right near the beginning of the season, or else gradually in bits throughout each episode up till now. The way it's been handled now, I feel like I've been jerked around for six episodes guessing at something that couldn't possibly have been known till episode 7. Lame. Extremely lame.

Totally agree, it should have been spread through the season. Could have helped with the issue of a couple of episodes being notably Jack-light, too.


Not really happy with how easily Gwen just decided to hand Jack over. "If there was another way out I'd have thought of it!", then Rex and Esther are just like "Can we track them?" "Yes." Come on Gwen, sort it out.

Loved the Trickster's Brigade reference far more than is probably reasonable , but Pre-Utopia Jack using the "fixed point in time" line bugged the hell out of me.

[Flyboy]

Totally agree, it should have been spread through the season. Could have helped with the issue of a couple of episodes being notably Jack-light, too.


Not really happy with how easily Gwen just decided to hand Jack over. "If there was another way out I'd have thought of it!", then Rex and Esther are just like "Can we track them?" "Yes." Come on Gwen, sort it out.

Loved the Trickster's Brigade reference far more than is probably reasonable , but Pre-Utopia Jack using the "fixed point in time" line bugged the hell out of me.

Didn't notice that. Was that in 1927? God that's annoying.

*rages*

Matt G, as off 1927, Jack would have only lived in WW2 once, the Empty Child incident, and I doubt he still had his uniform from that.



Regarding Gwen not having any options, remember, they were in her EYES. All she could do was hope Esther and Rex would get suspicious.

[Naonak]

Didn't notice that. Was that in 1927? God that's annoying.

*rages*

Near the end, on the rooftop, when he was explaining why he was leaving Angelo. "... Time itself changed me to a fixed point." beckett_new022.gif

Regarding Gwen not having any options, remember, they were in her EYES. All she could do was hope Esther and Rex would get suspicious.

They don't have sound, all she's got to do is not look at them when they're talking.

[Matt G]

Didn't notice that.

Matt G, as off 1927, Jack would have only lived in WW2 once, the Empty Child incident, and I doubt he still had his uniform from that.

Nope. In "Captain Jack Harkness" It was at least implied that he picked up the "Jack Harkness" identity during a previous trip to WWII.

[mjwalshe]

Near the end, on the rooftop, when he was explaining why he was leaving Angelo. "... Time itself changed me to a fixed point." beckett_new022.gif


They don't have sound, all she's got to do is not look at them when they're talking.

yes when saw the preview clip I assumed that Gwen was setting up the bad guys - interesting that Both of them finally admitted that they Loved each other.

[mjwalshe]

Immortal Sins / Lets Kill Hitler cross-reference.

It just struck me that the Gould thingy was to disrupt Roosevelt to mess with WW2 is it just coincidence that this weekends Dr who is “lets Kill Hitler” set in 1930’s Berlin?

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

I liked it.

It seems to be pointing towards the whole scorned lover trying to be with Jack by making everyone immortal type-thing, as Jack said they couldn't be in a relationship because Angelos would die and Jack would live forever. Also - The Trickster's Brigade! I do love DW references. They were behind the insect/parallel timeline in Turn Left!

[Flyboy]

Btw, looked into it.

'New' style RAF uniform (inc the Great Coat) came about in 1924, so Jack could conceivably have picked one up from an airman he 'encountered' a year or so before...

[LtColCarter]

Btw, looked into it.

'New' style RAF uniform (inc the Great Coat) came about in 1924, so Jack could conceivably have picked one up from an airman he 'encountered' a year or so before...

I want a RAF Great Coat!

[Flyboy]

I want a RAF Great Coat!

Soon as I make Squadron Leader nothing will keep me away from Stores to sign one out!

[mathpiglet]

I want a RAF Great Coat!

My son has one (army/navy surplus store). He has dressed up as Captain Jack for a few Halloweens. It earned him many hugs at the train station.