Atlantis Rising: The Virtual Series

[Eri13]

Sorry have to do it in two posts, too long in one.

Not always, or do you really consider their actions in CONDEMNED (a lot of innocent people got culled and criminals escaped), OUTCAST OR MC as the best they could do?

Well, the way Shen and Strom were portrayed you could also just see it as ignorance and that it was not really true what they said. Now we could argue but I just say it was simple luck that TPTB provided. 2x two hive ships conveniently explode, never any consequences when they get caught, their hive ship was heavily damaged in SoW but they still can outrun the other ship and destroy the cloning facility, Ronon with his superhero act in TLT ..., I could go on and on.
And sadly you did a bit the same with your second part when Atlantis launches the PJ to attack vulnerable parts of the hive ships. The Wraith have fought the Ancients for over 100 years, I'm sure they have developed some counteractions against cloaked PJ. And even if not, they KNOW Atlantis has cloaked PJ, they could simple have a swarm of protective Darts around their sensitive systems. Please, don't make the Wraith as dumb as TPTB made them. I hope, you give them a chance to show their ingenuity. I had hoped a bit you would let the Wraith make use of the Hoffan drug research Todd acquired or the PJ they got in CONDEMNED or at least put that experiment of PHANTOMS into good use because obviously the device worked well.

Yes, I can imagine that is some hard work to clean up the mess of TPTB.
Well, you could evolve them into the treated enemies they should have been as they were beings that rivaled the powers of the Ancients and they had never before encountered a race which had this ability.

I'm sorry but why do you consider getting those ZPMs a betrayal? There was never an agreement about those ZPMs. They agreed to defeat the replicators together and that's what happened. What would have really been betrayal, if they had some other hive ships in store, which did not participate in the battle, and went with them to the meeting point and attacked the humans but they DID NOT DO THAT. It's not Todd's fault if Atlantis never thought of the opportunity to acquire some ZPM's. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't consider Atlantis taking some ZPM's and eventually use them against the Wraith as betrayal, would you? No I think the viewers would congratulated them for this brilliant move. It was a temporary alliance they both knew that and you would be naive to think this alliance would hold because as Todd agreed with Sam, in the end they will be enemies again. Both sides knew and accepted that fact.

As I pointed out before, those benefits were marginal to say the least.

It's probably about 90% luck and 10% achievement the way TPTB wrote the plot. And the funny thing is, the Wraith never have luck. Just look at Todd, he gets betrayed three times by one of his underlings (MW, SoW, EATG), that's quite some bad luck and oh, in SoW and EATG it helped Atlantis a lot, funny isn't it.

He didn't tell her that they would kill the queen but he probably knew that the primary would never accept the plan. And he didn't tell Atlantis because they would probably think it's too dangerous and maybe didn't believe him because they don't know anything of Wraith society (sadly never really explored). His plan was very risky for himself because if it failed his life would be at stake like Teyla's, that is not really betrayal. And he wouldn't be the head of the alliance but Teyla and Teyla uses this fact to threaten him later. And look what Teyla did, she betrays him a lot more by killing all those Wraith which are her subjects. Pretty stupid move considering they want an alliance with the Wraith, not very convincing if you kill them right in front of Todd. Probably that is why Todd was very reluctant afterward to agree to the retrovirus.

No, he couldn't have come up with it because his original plan was to deploy the virus against the replicators but thanks to Atlantis some part was missing and that's probably why it didn't work. And it wasn't his plan to attack the planet of the replicators and use the hive ships to assist them that was Sheppard. So he really helped them and had no hidden agenda. After he knew the plan he saw the opportunity to act but it's not his fault if Atlantis didn't think of it and it would certainly be dumb to tell them "Oh guys, BTW did you think about taking some ZPMs?". And he pointed out in SoW that he wanted to use the cloning facility to wipe out the other Wraiths. Of course he could have lied but I got the impression he was sincere when he said that.

Excuse me but the reason why he was starving was Atlantis. I think it's only fair in his point of view to provide him with food because Atlantis KNEW EXACTLY what they got themselves into when they took Todd prisoner. That move still doesn't make any sense to me. They just could have taken him to another planet through the gate, question him and then release or kill him without risking to reveal the location of Atlantis or maneuvering themselves into the dilemma of how to feed a Wraith.
According to INSTINCT "It feeds three, four times a year, takes two or three people each time." Sorry, but I'm not going to buy that he simply hold out 9 months without feeding. Hope, you have a better explanation.

Well, same with Atlantis. Didn't they twice suggest to betray him after they had an agreement in THE SEER, oh yes they did!

Completely agree with you.

Wow...you know your Wraith eppies! You've made some excellent arguments on behalf of the Wraith and given many good reasons why they were underused in the series. I hope you take advantage of the pro-Wraith forums on GW because you're obviously a good fan.

However, this thread is probably not the best one for trying to justify why the Wraith are morally 'better' than the humans. Not because the argument isn't a compelling one to consider, but because this thread is for this particular virtual series, which isn't a pro-Wraith re-writing of Atlantis.

For one thing, we're trying to keep (as best we can, anyway) continuous with the series. In SGA, while there are any number of problems created by TPTB stylistically that cause issues for fans (let's not even get started on show ships!), in the mainstream telling, the TPTB created the Wraith to be the enemy. And while they did give that enemy more depth by creating characters such as Todd, at the end of the day it was clear they wished the Wraith to remain the bad guys, and Atlantis's humans to be the main good guys, whatever your opinion of them and their choices might be. I, for one, am glad Atlantis isn't full of cookie cutter good guys, because it makes them more complicated and darker characters--which we hope to take advantage of later on.

But bearing that in mind, we made the choice, as SouthernRed says, of continuing the series with general canon as a base and without diverging too far in one specific direction. We can't please everyone, we know this. And while I hope people will enjoy our take on the Wraith, which was a heavily discussed arc, I think we also understand that fans devoted to certain aspects of the series will find issues, as we have often done with the specific parts of the show that we love. I can honestly say that some of our writers had to be dragged kicking and screaming into writing some of what they're writing in order to stick with canon. But we're all making compromises to try and do the best we can.

I don't mean to sound like I'm brushing this aside; I'm not. But my personal opinions of how I feel about Wraith as a fan of the SGA show I don't feel like I could adequately answer in this thread, because it's not really a thread about my opinions, it's more one to answer questions about the virtual series, and the best answer I can give you about the Wraith is that, as a group, we discussed what had been done on the show and the general arc of the Wraith story and built what we're doing from there. We really couldn't 'fix' particular aspects of things (like why the heck the Wraith never built shields into their ships--believe me, I asked that question as I was developing my stories and the canon answer was that they were never there!!), but instead to do the best with what we were given. That was a team decision, rather than an individual's decision, and that's the way our entire series was--it was a series built completely by a group. In some cases, the majority overruled a minority in story planning. But we've done the best we can, and I hope people can appreciate that.

[Falcon Horus]

Jumping in to bow to Skie's Wraith knowledge - and episode knowledge.

And to announce that the next part of episode 2 is online - that would be act 4.
Link is in the first post - or here if you're feeling lazy.

[Anuna]

@ Skie - I am going to echo what my fellow wroters have already said here - this season is a product of joint effort. Hours and hours of discussion and brainstoriming went into this project; and every single plot point has been discussed from several and many aspects. We weren't anything if not incredibly detailed and dedicated. At the very beginning of this project we have decided to stick with the canon of the show, even if that meant setting aside some of our personal preferences, and now we're trying to create the best we can do, with the material we were given. Had we set out to correct everything we didn't like about the show, we could have done some sort of massive plot reset nad go back to earlier seasons, but we didn't do that. We chose to take everything PTB did into account and create the best with what we got.

I appreciate your passion about the show, and about the characters (and trust me we have respect for all of them and we discussed each and every one of them in detail), but one thing is certain if we take show canon into account - Wraith are the enemy. They are the bad guys. The team belongs to good guys. Yes, good guys don't always do the right thing, but no living human being does. In my personal opinion, writing about imperfect, flawed characters who make mistakes is a lot more interesting, then writing about someone flawless.

[Skie]

Skie, I didn't see your two in depth posts before I wrote the above. You obviously want a more Wraithcentric season. That is not what we envision. To us, the Wraith are the bad guys and we agree with Ronon and Teyla that they are never to be trusted too far. That is canon and how we chose to view them. Your ideas are very interesting and I think you need to get a team together and make your vision a reality. Find good writers that agree with your ideas and make a plan. We'll look forward to your finished product.

Yes, I have to confess, as you already found out (not so difficult I guess) that I do like the Wraith and found them poorly underused in SGA.
Hm, maybe not so much Wraith centered but I wouldn't mind an episode with a Wraith POV. I'm happy if you can decently resolve the human-wraith "problem" without letting either side looking stupid or weak or the plot too contrived for reality. And I agree that certainly there are Wraiths, which can't be trusted but the same goes for humans. I just hated how TPTB made everything black (Wraith) and white (SGA/humans). But the Todd we saw in CG was one I would trust to keep a bargain and I hoped to see more of this in the series but unfortunately not.
We have to fight the Wraith as long as they need us for food and naturally that makes them the bad guys and us the good ones if you tell the story in the humans POV.
But I hope you didn't think that I couldn't fully enjoy your excellently written story because of missing Wraiths. As I stated before, I had a lot of difficulties with the decisions certain SGA characters made, which led for example me loosing respect for Sheppard and liking him less. And it's a bit disturbing to see them still as the good guys in your story but as you pointed out they are supposed to be the good guys and the mess TPTB created, is doubtless not helping. So if you want to be canon you have to write like that and I fully accept that, I even admire you for having the guts to go on with McKeller for the sake of canon.

Wow...you know your Wraith eppies! You've made some excellent arguments on behalf of the Wraith and given many good reasons why they were underused in the series. I hope you take advantage of the pro-Wraith forums on GW because you're obviously a good fan.

Thanks!

However, this thread is probably not the best one for trying to justify why the Wraith are morally 'better' than the humans. Not because the argument isn't a compelling one to consider, but because this thread is for this particular virtual series, which isn't a pro-Wraith re-writing of Atlantis.

Yes, you're totally right. I already thought I should stop now before you wrote this. My discussion here goes off-topic way too much.

And while they did give that enemy more depth by creating characters such as Todd, at the end of the day it was clear they wished the Wraith to remain the bad guys, and Atlantis's humans to be the main good guys, whatever your opinion of them and their choices might be. I, for one, am glad Atlantis isn't full of cookie cutter good guys, because it makes them more complicated and darker characters--which we hope to take advantage of later on.

Yup, I'm VERY sure I wouldn't like the Wraith either if I happened to be in the PG. I do like series in which the "good" characters struggle and sometimes fail to make the right choices. But as I wrote before then I would like to see the consequences for those characters and unfortunately that didn't happen in the series, so I'm very much looking forward to your character development.

I can honestly say that some of our writers had to be dragged kicking and screaming into writing some of what they're writing in order to stick with canon. But we're all making compromises to try and do the best we can

And you certainly do story wise!

I don't mean to sound like I'm brushing this aside; I'm not.

Don't worry I got you.

That was a team decision, rather than an individual's decision, and that's the way our entire series was--it was a series built completely by a group. In some cases, the majority overruled a minority in story planning. But we've done the best we can, and I hope people can appreciate that.

Your project is great and I definitely appreciate your efforts in giving Atlantis a decent ending.

@ Skie - I am going to echo what my fellow wroters have already said here - this season is a product of joint effort.
I appreciate your passion about the show, and about the characters (and trust me we have respect for all of them and we discussed each and every one of them in detail), but one thing is certain if we take show canon into account - Wraith are the enemy. They are the bad guys. The team belongs to good guys.

Uh uh, I really think now I got carried away a bit and overshoot the mark. As said to Eri13 I will stop now discussing the Wraith because as he correctly pointed out this is about your series, which goes with canon having the Wraith as the baddies and SGA as the goddies.

We chose to take everything PTB did into account and create the best with what we got.

And I have to say again I admire you for this decision.

Yes, good guys don't always do the right thing, but no living human being does. In my personal opinion, writing about imperfect, flawed characters who make mistakes is a lot more interesting, then writing about someone flawless.

Yes, totally agree. *looks forward to flawed characters*

[Skie]

Jumping in to bow to Skie's Wraith knowledge - and episode knowledge.

Thanks for that FH!

[Falcon Horus]

Thanks for that FH!

I actually wanted to green you but apparently I need to spread it around more. Go figure!

[Scary Kitty]

I think everyone else has covered everything admirably, but there was one little note I'd like to make...

I don't mean to sound like I'm brushing this aside; I'm not. But my personal opinions of how I feel about Wraith as a fan of the SGA show I don't feel like I could adequately answer in this thread, because it's not really a thread about my opinions, it's more one to answer questions about the virtual series, and the best answer I can give you about the Wraith is that, as a group, we discussed what had been done on the show and the general arc of the Wraith story and built what we're doing from there. We really couldn't 'fix' particular aspects of things (like why the heck the Wraith never built shields into their ships--believe me, I asked that question as I was developing my stories and the canon answer was that they were never there!!), but instead to do the best with what we were given. That was a team decision, rather than an individual's decision, and that's the way our entire series was--it was a series built completely by a group. In some cases, the majority overruled a minority in story planning. But we've done the best we can, and I hope people can appreciate that.

That bit I've bolded is what I believe to be the key point on which this whole virtual series hinges. People have asked us, "Why not just do an AU or a reset?" Personally, I think that's too easy of a way out. I believe that as writers, it is more fulfilling for us to find a way to solve the problems/mistakes that TPTW created, but without ignoring what came before. Yes, that makes it more difficult to fix storylines gone bad, but I think in the long run, we'll be able to look back on it and say, "Hey, we figured out how to fix it, and it doesn't suck!"

The point is, we don't want to do the cheap cop out just to get out from under stories we may not have liked. We want to take those stories as they were presented on TV, and further develop them into what we believe to be their most logical (and hopefully positive!) conclusions. It's as simple as that.

[Skie]

I hope you take advantage of the pro-Wraith forums on GW because you're obviously a good fan.

I do not glorify the Wraiths as some tend to do and I'm certainly not a wraith worshipper. BUT if I feel the story gets too one-sided (only black and white) or the Wraith are treated unfairly (*points to Ronon*), I will defend them.

I can honestly say that some of our writers had to be dragged kicking and screaming into writing some of what they're writing in order to stick with canon.

McKeller comes to mind.

We really couldn't 'fix' particular aspects of things (like why the heck the Wraith never built shields into their ships--believe me, I asked that question as I was developing my stories and the canon answer was that they were never there!!), but instead to do the best with what we were given.

Don't worry, I won't start with another Wraith discussion here but merely point out that in S1 Wraiths having shield is canon. It does get mentioned twice in the season:

CE
McKAY: I'm sorry, perhaps I'm not being clear. Nothing works here, not their stunners, their Darts... even their shields wouldn't function correctly.

TDO
SHEPPARD: Seriously, the amount of intel we could gather from their weapons system -- codes, shields ...

I could imagine that TPTB originally planned for the Wraiths to have shields but because they wrote themselves into a corner with THE SIEGE, they needed weaker Wraiths in order for the DAEDALUS to stand a chance against the Wraiths and delivering those nukes.


I got a question concerning this statement in Part 2:

“General, the agency on Earth that oversees matters here in Atlantis has ordered Doctors Beckett and Keller to continue their research into the retrovirus that is the basis of Hoffan Plague, to use it as a medium to make the Wraith incapable of feeding on humans.”

The retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague are two completely different things. The retrovirus is well, a retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague is caused by a vaccination. Or did I not understand what you wanted to say with this sentence?

I have to disagree. I admit, I do like the notion that SGA characters get pissed off and take/steal Atlantis back, but it's simply too OOC for me.

I don't think that is too much out of character because in THE RETURN four main characters hijack a PJ to get to Atlantis. Actually, didn't Laundry say and O'Neill say that Shepp would get fired for his actions, why do we never here of it again.

The point is, we don't want to do the cheap cop out just to get out from under stories we may not have liked.

Personally I wouldn't consider that cheap. On the contrary, I consider the rewrite of SGA a lot more difficult than to continue with what we got because you would need to a) write more episodes/seasons and b) develop a lot more ideas/story arcs as you don't have the previous background to draw from.
But as always that is quite a subjective topic.

[Skie]

I actually wanted to green you but apparently I need to spread it around more. Go figure!

I got that problem too, strange.

[WraithRichard]

I'm having the same problem, Skie!

[Falcon Horus]

Actually, didn't Laundry say....

- It's Landry.

[Skie]

- It's Landry.

Ups, you're right. Well, maybe in his free time, he does help out at the laundry service.


BTW, sorry Eri13 for the "he", should have been more thorough.

[Scary Kitty]

I got a question concerning this statement in Part 2:

“General, the agency on Earth that oversees matters here in Atlantis has ordered Doctors Beckett and Keller to continue their research into the retrovirus that is the basis of Hoffan Plague, to use it as a medium to make the Wraith incapable of feeding on humans.”

The retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague are two completely different things. The retrovirus is well, a retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague is caused by a vaccination. Or did I not understand what you wanted to say with this sentence?

I may be misremembering, but I had the impression that Michael (and thus Clone!Carson while he was under Michael's control) might have been working towards ultimately combining elements of the two. Considering how much of a sick and twisted puppy Michael was at the end, I wouldn't put it past him to think along those lines. And I really wouldn't put it past those shameless opportunists at the IOA to push to continue such work after Michael's demise. Never underestimate people like that.

I don't think that is too much out of character because in THE RETURN four main characters hijack a PJ to get to Atlantis. Actually, didn't Laundry say and O'Neill say that Shepp would get fired for his actions, why do we never here of it again.

Sheppard saved the day, not to mention O'Neill's and Woolsey's butts. Kinda hard to justify firing him when he keeps coming out smelling like a rose and is that darn useful to them.

Personally I wouldn't consider that cheap. On the contrary, I consider the rewrite of SGA a lot more difficult than to continue with what we got because you would need to a) write more episodes/seasons and b) develop a lot more ideas/story arcs as you don't have the previous background to draw from.
But as always that is quite a subjective topic.

Well, I believe that casually dismissing what came before just because one didn't like some aspects of it (and believe me, there's plenty of stuff that happened on the show that we don't like!) is an insult to the audience's intelligence. We'll just have to agree to disagree, then.

[ShipperWriter]

I got a question concerning this statement in Part 2:

“General, the agency on Earth that oversees matters here in Atlantis has ordered Doctors Beckett and Keller to continue their research into the retrovirus that is the basis of Hoffan Plague, to use it as a medium to make the Wraith incapable of feeding on humans.”

The retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague are two completely different things. The retrovirus is well, a retrovirus and the Hoffan Plague is caused by a vaccination. Or did I not understand what you wanted to say with this sentence?

Given that the person who was speaking isn't a medical expert, it could've been a slip of the tongue.

*shrug* And, whatever else everyone said.

Personally I wouldn't consider that cheap. On the contrary, I consider the rewrite of SGA a lot more difficult than to continue with what we got because you would need to a) write more episodes/seasons and b) develop a lot more ideas/story arcs as you don't have the previous background to draw from.
But as always that is quite a subjective topic.

I really do have to admire you guys. You're such sticklers for following canon and portraying it in a realistic light (as realistic as sci-fi can be ) and you've done a great job so far! Can't wait for the rest of RtP Chapter 2 to be posted!!!

[Skie]

I may be misremembering, but I had the impression that Michael (and thus Clone!Carson while he was under Michael's control) might have been working towards ultimately combining elements of the two.

They just say that Carson was forced via blackmail to help Michael with hybrid research (from KINDRED II):

BECKETT: He wanted me to help with his research, combining Wraith and human D.N.A.

You can't really combine those two things because the hybrid research deals with DNA and the Hoffan drug with proteins. You could probably administer them both together into the blood stream but not combining this two elements.

Sheppard saved the day, not to mention O'Neill's and Woolsey's butts. Kinda hard to justify firing him when he keeps coming out smelling like a rose and is that darn useful to them.

But O'Neill said also:

SHEPPARD: We’ve got a plan, sir ... a good one.

O’NEILL: Yes, Colonel, I’m sure you do. But in the unlikely event you don’t fail miserably, you’re fired."

Well, I believe that casually dismissing what came before just because one didn't like some aspects of it (and believe me, there's plenty of stuff that happened on the show that we don't like!) is an insult to the audience's intelligence.

I don't see it as an insult if you clearly state your reasons why you reboot SGA, then you don't just brush things carelessly aside. But yeah,

We'll just have to agree to disagree, then.

seems so.

[Bane]

I love your series, it started out a little slow but man its like old times! I can't wait for the 3rd installment.

[JT-2]

I was totally surprised with the

Spoiler:

renegade Asgard

showing up. Great plot twist! Didn't see that coming!

And poor Teyla!

Looking forward to more!

[Scary Kitty]

You can't really combine those two things because the hybrid research deals with DNA and the Hoffan drug with proteins. You could probably administer them both together into the blood stream but not combining this two elements.

One of the key functions of DNA is to regulate the creation and function of proteins. In fact, proteins and DNA work together to perform many specialized tasks in the human body. But that's a discussion better suited to a molecular biology textbook, not here.

Besides, Stargate is science fiction, not science fact. So let's get back to discussing the story, shall we?

[Scary Kitty]

I love your series, it started out a little slow but man its like old times! I can't wait for the 3rd installment.

Glad to hear you're enjoying it so far, and we hope you'll like the next episode! If you thought this one was a roller coaster, the next one will definitely leave your head spinning!

I was totally surprised with the

Spoiler:

renegade Asgard

showing up. Great plot twist! Didn't see that coming!

And poor Teyla!

Looking forward to more!

Hahahah! Yeah, that was quite a surprise, wasn't it?

Poor Teyla, indeed. Just wait until you see what she does in the next episode!

[Belmene]

Ep 1 and 2 read. You've done a fantastic job! Thank you for having revived the series I love. You know, there will always be critics and people who will try to find a small flaw in the script. I am not an inveterate fan but just someone who loves good stories with his favorite characters. And here I was not disappointed. In addition, English is not my native language, yet it is with pleasure that I will follow this epic saga ahead. And one more time, thank you !.