well there's the problem right there....crazy wacko's the lot of 'em.....Originally Posted by loserinc
Re: Religious Help Desk
well there's the problem right there....crazy wacko's the lot of 'em.....
“Only an idiot fights a war on 2 fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on TWELVE fronts!” - Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
http://www.youtube.com/user/hamenthotep - YT channel for PH's bot renderings...
Re: Religious Help Desk
Okie dokie.
You see I misread your post at first so I had this awesome response all dreamed up to you but then I read your post the correct way and...well I do not think that God created the entire universe and just created little ole us on little ole earth.
In light of a grammar and clarification issue as espoused by a friend of mine, God created the universe, then he filled it with life, including us, and a lot of aliens, though we have not met them yet....or have we?...muhahaha
Last edited by Col.Foley; July 21st, 2011 at 07:26 PM.
Re: Religious Help Desk
sorry for the length, but I tried to cram in a lot (of examples or clarifications) in here...
(EDIT---by the time I posted more postings popped up with a slight change of the subject being inquired)
No. Not for myself. I can't speak for others, but I do know many folks who believe in the Biblical version of creation, yet also know that science and applied sciences cannot be separated from reality, since we all live and work with some sort of connection to what makes the universe actually function and continue in whatever shape or form it is on a daily basis.
To exclude all fields of science, just because most scientific fields are taught by the secular world is to (severely) limit one's knowledge of the world and universe around them.
I have found that even tho I felt science is too complex of a field for me to get myself involved in (individually speaking, and above my IQ in spots), the makings of it can actually be exciting, when taught in *inspiring* ways (meaning, don't put me to sleep talk type of studying =)
I'm not into science, but I *love* most "how do they DO *that*" Tv specials/programs..
Maybe I'm just an anomaly, but whatever secular science (without putting "God" into the equation), I've tended to just ignore the secular hype (called "FACTs") and listen to the rest of whatever is being presented and enjoy the show. Some oil company at Epcot (Disney) in Florida had or still have a wonderful science exhibit about the world. It starts out with the dinosaurs, and then takes the visitor on a ride with a curved (more than 180 degree) viewing movie feature. It's awesome, and WELL worth the adventure. Epcot in itself is a science exhibit on many levels, so even to someone who has placed their own restrictions on scientific discoveries, it's just an amazing place to see and absorb. I craved for my family to take me back at least 3 more times, because I wanted to see the things I missed. Just as vast as our own universe is, there was just too much to see in a one day walk thru Epcot.
and squeezing some of this post into spoiler space --
To understand Science, one needs to understand the definition of science and all that it encompasses.
Therefore, according to (www) thefreedictionary.com/science, summarizing the definition(s) of science is basically this--
Spoiler:
Science channel..
I recently found one on our Cable TV system -- and since NASA gets boring now and then, the Science channel has some very fascinating and interesting stuff on it. I might not agree with some of the theories on the origins of life, but there is plenty out there to study that makes this field so vast and beyond simple understanding, that to someone who is not a scientist, but is fascinated with the universe and how it works in various ways and forms, this is a GREAT educational tool.
NASA used to be my favorite TV channel, until our Cable system took it away to a higher viewing tier.
Learned about Saturn's unique HEXAGON that seems to be a rather steady phenomenon at one of the poles. I've learned that geographical formations on Mars doesn't just include the infamous "FACE on MARS," but that the little face is actually part of a more giagantic feature that when one of our probe camera's caught it -- the photo shows a LION's face! Yes, the face is formed by mountain and valley ranges, but it still shows up as a LION's Face -- complete with ears, eyes, nose, mouth, and mane..
When I thought that Lion face on Mars was so awesome, it had some competition with the earth's magnetosphere. When some of the illustrated drawings trace the lines of the magnetic fields around the earth, it appears in a larger view as either a giant bug, or a space angel (protecting the earth!). Because I didn't want to believe my eyes were playing visual tricks, I had to find other web sites confirming the outlined shapes, and they all showed up with similar space angel features (or some person wearing a space helmet and protective gear, and shielding the earth by surrounding it with the (space) creature's own body.
I've seen the drawings, and they are amazing! Wikipedia has one from NASA, and there are several other web sites on the internet that show similar images, and also with Jupiter and any other planet that has a magneticsphere (probably iron / iron-ore in the core of the planet).
My grandfather used to collect rocks, so our family got well educated with the minerals and mining in the area. My favorite is probably the hollow geode. It grows crystals within it, and there is a cave in Mexico where there are six-sided crystals over 30 feet long. The cave is hot and humid, and obviously hollow, but the crystals have been forming for probably thousands of years in there. Our local mineral shows sold little geodes up to a foot in size. It wasn't until National Geographic did the Tv special on this Crystal Cave, when my family finally realized that just maybe the cave is actually an oversized GEODE that is at least 2 miles wide (because that is the estimated size of the cave).
Anyway, I haven't even touched on the nebulas, quazers or other things *out there*.
The Sci-Fi Channel (before it became SyFy) once did an interesting commercial. It was a creature within a creature within a creature, thus illustrating structure of the micro-world within a macro-world (being). Our bodies are composed of cells and organs that do their own thing and operate on a level that our emotional brains usually rarely think about.
one more---
As far as the Bible goes, it only refers to humans living on earth. It is basically the study of humans on earth and their encounters with a "divine being" from *somewhere*. The Bible does not explain anything about the other planets or galaxies other than those being describe in a general "heaven" or the heavens above (includes stars and the moon at night). So, we don't know about what exists beyond earth. Our genius level scientists and astronomers are slowly discovering that there is more than just stars in the sky at night -- Because of the (scientific instrument) Hubble telescope, some of those stars are actually entire galaxies with more stars and planetary bodies within.
Re: Religious Help Desk
be nice or i will bann you to the nth degree where my ravenous birds will have at youwell there's the problem right there....crazy wacko's the lot of 'em.....
Re: Religious Help Desk
ooooh, ravenous birds, I'll pay to see that
Wraith Invasion Site**********LoserInc-dA
Re: Religious Help Desk
http://www.thelordstruth.com/Did_You_Know_.html
Hey heard a rather awesome radio add today about such stuff on this and it led to this website. Just checked it out...some nutty... a lot that makes some sense. At least after a fashion
Anyways just thought I would share, and either way it does provide some rather interesting takes on Christian doctrine and certainly food for thought. Just showing that apparently Christian Doctrine is a lot more credit then we give it credit for.
(Of course a lot of Christians here might say thats not Christian doctrine! But ah well here we go.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Golden bell, possibly from Temple priest's robe, found in J'lem
Right from Exodus
The fancy word we use nowadays is "empathy"--entering into the emotions of others. I had appreciated and admired individual refugees but realized I had felt no blanket empathy for the Palestinian refugees, and finally I knew why... It is hard to sorrow for those who only sorrow over themselves. It is difficult to pity the pitiless. To wring the heart past all doubt, those who cry aloud for justice must be innocent. They cannot have wished for a victorious rewarding war, blame everyone else for their defeat, and remain guiltless.
Martha Gellhorn.
Re: Religious Help Desk
NiceThanks for Sharing.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Thanks for sharing this too...and I read through it. I cannot go along with this in it's entiretyhttp://www.thelordstruth.com/Did_You_Know_.html
Hey heard a rather awesome radio add today about such stuff on this and it led to this website. Just checked it out...some nutty... a lot that makes some sense. At least after a fashion
Anyways just thought I would share, and either way it does provide some rather interesting takes on Christian doctrine and certainly food for thought. Just showing that apparently Christian Doctrine is a lot more credit then we give it credit for.
(Of course a lot of Christians here might say thats not Christian doctrine! But ah well here we go.there are things that are just wrong. Like I had to giggle when they said....don't take other men's interpretations of the Bible....read it for yourself...that God get's mad that people refuse to open up the word for themelves and just take the lazy way out and take another man's interpretation on it....then it goes on to say.....but read this other Book that we put together so you can see where you've been deceived...
I just had to laugh.
Unfortunately I had to stop there cuz it appeared to be a glorified commercial for another "Book"
And they said some things from this "Book" that I just don't agree with....some of the stuff we have already discussed here ad nausem so I won't bring them up again....but yeah.. I mean again....I agree with their opening argument that don't take the words of men and be deceived...read it in the Bible for yourself....but that is where it ends.. I mean it makes no sense to send a man onto read another book from another man about the Bible.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Wow
Well I think the point was...just use your noggin.Thanks for sharing this too...and I read through it. I cannot go along with this in it's entirety
And they said some things from this "Book" that I just don't agree with....some of the stuff we have already discussed here ad nausem so I won't bring them up again....but yeah.. I mean again....I agree with their opening argument that don't take the words of men and be deceived...read it in the Bible for yourself....but that is where it ends.. I mean it makes no sense to send a man onto read another book from another man about the Bible.
Re: Religious Help Desk
TrueWow
Well I think the point was...just use your noggin.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Well just learn from life period. Again the bible Et all other formal religious texts are important and they are guides and pointers but I think you can find Divine Inspiration in the regular fabric of the universe and reach conclusions about your theology/religion/ spirtuality.
Re: Religious Help Desk
yeah of course and there are very many motivational speakers who can inspire you to change and/or look deeper into things and affect your journey as well. I just think we need to check our resources ...especially if we feel something doesn't pass the sniff test.
Re: Religious Help Desk
in other words if it smells like a sweaty armpit don't buy into it....
“Only an idiot fights a war on 2 fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on TWELVE fronts!” - Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
http://www.youtube.com/user/hamenthotep - YT channel for PH's bot renderings...
Re: Religious Help Desk
in other words if it smells like a sweaty armpit don't buy into it....
Gosh this place is boring now we are all agreeing with eachother.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Well, hurrah for me, I finally have time to reply to everything! Many thanks for not bombarding the thread will hundreds of posts during my absence.
To follow up on this, Why don't some Christians/Catholics/Religious/People-in-general approve of condoms, etc.? Here is a brief analogy:
You are going to school today, and the teacher has decided to start off the morning by giving The Talk... about cheating. The teacher drones on about why you shouldn't copy out of your book, shouldn't steal the answer sheet, etc., etc. ...And then suddenly said teachers says, "But if you DO decide to cheat, then the best way to do it is by surreptitiously staring at the sheet belonging to the smart student on your left and copy his or her answers; just as long as you don't get caught everything's cool..."
Doesn't quite give the same, "This is a BAD idea!" message that a lecture about No Cheating Period would, aye?
*is glomped*Carter you are an awesome saint
yes you are very valued.
Heh, you asked a writer about semantics. Run while you still can.Just that I think it should be and in my research and feelings about the matter it should be God, in the beginning, created the heaven and the Earth. Or whatever...sure in the long run its probably nothing but semantics, but I think its important, though I need an expert or someone to try and attempt to explain why its important
One possible explanation: This could be a case of Restrictive vs. nonrestrictive (Restrictive clauses limit the possible meaning of the subject. Nonrestrictive clauses tell you something about a preceding subject, but they don't limit or restrict the meaning of said subject). The original verse is Restrictive: there is no other way to interpret "In the beginning God created..." other than it happened at the beginning. By placing the phrase in the middle of the sentence and after the subject, the clause is not as imperative to the meaning of the sentence overall.
How am I doing so far?
Greetings, Dr. First off, good questions. And ones I'm sure I can't answer satisfactorily, for I certainly do not, by any means, hold all the answers. But I hope this will be somewhat useful.
1. I use the parallel of a writer because, as a writer, it is something that makes sense to me; that being said, it is not a perfect analogy (imperfect, finite vs. perfect, infinite). It does give a framework for me to build around and hopefully make some sort of reasonable explanation. If it does not help you, then feel free to ignore it.
2. You are quite correct. If God is the Author of the universe, then He knows the outcome; He knows where the characters came from, where they will go, where they will wind up. He made them, they are His.
3. However, any author will tell you that a character is not a mindless cut-out one can do anything with. If one tries to make a character do something that is against his nature, he will fight, kick, and generally make one's life miserable (I can attest to this, as I recently had to deal with such a situation. "Lynn" and I had an all out shouting-match over one scene and refused to speak to each other for two weeks. We're finally back on speaking terms as of yesterday). These characters have such will, and yet they are not even truly real! How much more then can we, as living, breathing people made after God's image, have will?
4. Okay, so: Here I have said that yes, God is sovereign, and yet still we have free will. Where is the evidence for this? Well, there are multiple passages on God's sovereignty, here are two:
- "The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33)
- "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11, emphasis added)
- Here is also an interesting article on God's Sovereignty.
5. Interestingly enough, free will is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible. However, common sense dictates that we must have some will, else we could not be held culpable for our actions.
6. If God is the writer, and thus in control of everything, what about our sinful nature? Does God make us sin? That, my friend, is a crazy hard question, and one that I think can better be explained by this article.
--Excerpt--"The ability of humans to sin has four historical stages. First, Adam and Eve were initially able to sin. Second, after their fall, all unregenerate humans (i.e., those who are spiritually dead) are not able not to sin. Third, regenerate humans (i.e., those whom God has given spiritual life) are able not to sin. Fourth, glorified regenerate humans are not able to sin."
____________________________________________________________________________
Aaaaaand drat. I've still got to reply to several things, and I've run out of time (I've been here for like an hour and a half folks). I shall have to make another very long reply, hopefully sooner this time, if you don't mind waiting. Again.
Tah for now!
EDIT: Heh, ah Foley... I'm sure this will make it... ah... interesting, again!
Re: Religious Help Desk
Great analogyWell, hurrah for me, I finally have time to reply to everything! Many thanks for not bombarding the thread will hundreds of posts during my absence.
To follow up on this, Why don't some Christians/Catholics/Religious/People-in-general approve of condoms, etc.? Here is a brief analogy:
You are going to school today, and the teacher has decided to start off the morning by giving The Talk... about cheating. The teacher drones on about why you shouldn't copy out of your book, shouldn't steal the answer sheet, etc., etc. ...And then suddenly said teachers says, "But if you DO decide to cheat, then the best way to do it is by surreptitiously staring at the sheet belonging to the smart student on your left and copy his or her answers; just as long as you don't get caught everything's cool..."
Doesn't quite give the same, "This is a BAD idea!" message that a lecture about No Cheating Period would, aye?
*is glomped*
Heh, you asked a writer about semantics. Run while you still can.
One possible explanation: This could be a case of Restrictive vs. nonrestrictive (Restrictive clauses limit the possible meaning of the subject. Nonrestrictive clauses tell you something about a preceding subject, but they don't limit or restrict the meaning of said subject). The original verse is Restrictive: there is no other way to interpret "In the beginning God created..." other than it happened at the beginning. By placing the phrase in the middle of the sentence and after the subject, the clause is not as imperative to the meaning of the sentence overall.
How am I doing so far?
Greetings, Dr. First off, good questions. And ones I'm sure I can't answer satisfactorily, for I certainly do not, by any means, hold all the answers. But I hope this will be somewhat useful.
1. I use the parallel of a writer because, as a writer, it is something that makes sense to me; that being said, it is not a perfect analogy (imperfect, finite vs. perfect, infinite). It does give a framework for me to build around and hopefully make some sort of reasonable explanation. If it does not help you, then feel free to ignore it.
2. You are quite correct. If God is the Author of the universe, then He knows the outcome; He knows where the characters came from, where they will go, where they will wind up. He made them, they are His.
3. However, any author will tell you that a character is not a mindless cut-out one can do anything with. If one tries to make a character do something that is against his nature, he will fight, kick, and generally make one's life miserable (I can attest to this, as I recently had to deal with such a situation. "Lynn" and I had an all out shouting-match over one scene and refused to speak to each other for two weeks. We're finally back on speaking terms as of yesterday). These characters have such will, and yet they are not even truly real! How much more then can we, as living, breathing people made after God's image, have will?
4. Okay, so: Here I have said that yes, God is sovereign, and yet still we have free will. Where is the evidence for this? Well, there are multiple passages on God's sovereignty, here are two:
- "The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33)
- "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11, emphasis added)
- Here is also an interesting article on God's Sovereignty.
5. Interestingly enough, free will is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible. However, common sense dictates that we must have some will, else we could not be held culpable for our actions.
6. If God is the writer, and thus in control of everything, what about our sinful nature? Does God make us sin? That, my friend, is a crazy hard question, and one that I think can better be explained by this article.
--Excerpt--"The ability of humans to sin has four historical stages. First, Adam and Eve were initially able to sin. Second, after their fall, all unregenerate humans (i.e., those who are spiritually dead) are not able not to sin. Third, regenerate humans (i.e., those whom God has given spiritual life) are able not to sin. Fourth, glorified regenerate humans are not able to sin."
____________________________________________________________________________
Aaaaaand drat. I've still got to reply to several things, and I've run out of time (I've been here for like an hour and a half folks). I shall have to make another very long reply, hopefully sooner this time, if you don't mind waiting. Again.
Tah for now!
EDIT: Heh, ah Foley... I'm sure this will make it... ah... interesting, again!
Aye
YYou just made my head explode is how you are doing
I see I am rubbing off on you.
Either that or you are just insane.
No I know what this is like to some extent not too much because I do not have this problem. An analogy (since I am about to attempt to write another SWs fic) that a certain Jedi Healer, may fight from time to time, but is generally nice and peaceful and prefers using the Force to heal suddenly goes on a Force ramapge and kills everyone in a city. Now if there was a reason why this character did this there would have to be a reason, you can't go from point A perfect loving girl and then go to point C homicidal maniac without a progression. Even though you are the 'God' of your universe there are literally things you cannot justifiably do or else you run the risk of getting turned into a laughing stock.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Well, hurrah for me, I finally have time to reply to everything! Many thanks for not bombarding the thread will hundreds of posts during my absence.
To follow up on this, Why don't some Christians/Catholics/Religious/People-in-general approve of condoms, etc.? Here is a brief analogy:
You are going to school today, and the teacher has decided to start off the morning by giving The Talk... about cheating. The teacher drones on about why you shouldn't copy out of your book, shouldn't steal the answer sheet, etc., etc. ...And then suddenly said teachers says, "But if you DO decide to cheat, then the best way to do it is by surreptitiously staring at the sheet belonging to the smart student on your left and copy his or her answers; just as long as you don't get caught everything's cool..."
Doesn't quite give the same, "This is a BAD idea!" message that a lecture about No Cheating Period would, aye?
*is glomped*
Heh, you asked a writer about semantics. Run while you still can.
One possible explanation: This could be a case of Restrictive vs. nonrestrictive (Restrictive clauses limit the possible meaning of the subject. Nonrestrictive clauses tell you something about a preceding subject, but they don't limit or restrict the meaning of said subject). The original verse is Restrictive: there is no other way to interpret "In the beginning God created..." other than it happened at the beginning. By placing the phrase in the middle of the sentence and after the subject, the clause is not as imperative to the meaning of the sentence overall.
How am I doing so far?
Greetings, Dr. First off, good questions. And ones I'm sure I can't answer satisfactorily, for I certainly do not, by any means, hold all the answers. But I hope this will be somewhat useful.
1. I use the parallel of a writer because, as a writer, it is something that makes sense to me; that being said, it is not a perfect analogy (imperfect, finite vs. perfect, infinite). It does give a framework for me to build around and hopefully make some sort of reasonable explanation. If it does not help you, then feel free to ignore it.
2. You are quite correct. If God is the Author of the universe, then He knows the outcome; He knows where the characters came from, where they will go, where they will wind up. He made them, they are His.
3. However, any author will tell you that a character is not a mindless cut-out one can do anything with. If one tries to make a character do something that is against his nature, he will fight, kick, and generally make one's life miserable (I can attest to this, as I recently had to deal with such a situation. "Lynn" and I had an all out shouting-match over one scene and refused to speak to each other for two weeks. We're finally back on speaking terms as of yesterday). These characters have such will, and yet they are not even truly real! How much more then can we, as living, breathing people made after God's image, have will?
4. Okay, so: Here I have said that yes, God is sovereign, and yet still we have free will. Where is the evidence for this? Well, there are multiple passages on God's sovereignty, here are two:
- "The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from the LORD." (Proverbs 16:33)
- "In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, (Ephesians 1:11, emphasis added)
- Here is also an interesting article on God's Sovereignty.
5. Interestingly enough, free will is never explicitly mentioned in the Bible. However, common sense dictates that we must have some will, else we could not be held culpable for our actions.
6. If God is the writer, and thus in control of everything, what about our sinful nature? Does God make us sin? That, my friend, is a crazy hard question, and one that I think can better be explained by this article.
--Excerpt--"The ability of humans to sin has four historical stages. First, Adam and Eve were initially able to sin. Second, after their fall, all unregenerate humans (i.e., those who are spiritually dead) are not able not to sin. Third, regenerate humans (i.e., those whom God has given spiritual life) are able not to sin. Fourth, glorified regenerate humans are not able to sin."
____________________________________________________________________________
Aaaaaand drat. I've still got to reply to several things, and I've run out of time (I've been here for like an hour and a half folks). I shall have to make another very long reply, hopefully sooner this time, if you don't mind waiting. Again.
Tah for now!
EDIT: Heh, ah Foley... I'm sure this will make it... ah... interesting, again!
Awesome Carter!!
WoW and sometimes my Google skills amaze even me
http://jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Up.../312_berry.pdf
I think there could very well be some merit to this.
I'm not even touching the Free Will thing again...but to say that it is not really mentioned in the Bible...not sure that is entirely true. The concept that man was intended to have a choice in things was set up in Genesis.....BUT it is contingent on OBEDIENCE. That is the qualifier that God added that he will give us Free will to choose but we must exercise our obedience to Him. And what commandments he put forth for us.
Here are the passages of the Bible that show this clear freedom of choice WITH God's contingencies:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...cus%2026:3-28;
Now because Adam and Eve exercised their free will and choose to eat of the tree of knowledge that was the first sin that came into the picture...thus set up this dichotomy of yeah you have a choice...but you MUST choose RIGHT. You must choose GOOD. Now then you are saying but how is that really having free will if we are expected to basically follow God's Will.
You are the parent of a teenager
And I guess I lied.... I did touch the Free will thing
Re: Religious Help Desk
Good post, squirrely.
Re: Religious Help Desk
Six of one, half dozen of the other.
I see no substantial difference in practice between teaching detachment and teaching to reject attachment.
Love for all is love for nothing. Love has no meaning in the absence of preference of some things over others.I've addressed the concept of asceticism. There are different levels, for people seeking different things. "Through living a life of compassion and love for all, a person achieves the liberation from selfish cravings sought by the ascetic and a serenity and satisfaction that are more fulfilling than anything obtained by indulgence in pleasure until everything that exists in the universe has attained Nirvana."
I don't really see the point of waiting until everything that exists in the universe has attained Nirvana. Those selfish cravings are there for a reason, you know. It goes to what I said earlier regarding the selfish inclination being essential to the continuation of life.
The fancy word we use nowadays is "empathy"--entering into the emotions of others. I had appreciated and admired individual refugees but realized I had felt no blanket empathy for the Palestinian refugees, and finally I knew why... It is hard to sorrow for those who only sorrow over themselves. It is difficult to pity the pitiless. To wring the heart past all doubt, those who cry aloud for justice must be innocent. They cannot have wished for a victorious rewarding war, blame everyone else for their defeat, and remain guiltless.
Martha Gellhorn.
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