Religious Help Desk

[escyos]

what kind of rituals do you practice?

Mostly beer drinking and payign tribute to the porcelain goddess (Toilet)

[SF_and_Coffee]

And I get the feeling that ritual is more of man then of God.

This, yes, exactly.

[jelgate]

I've never supported the notion of religion being behind wars. Its just a scapgoat and without religion cruel hearted people would just find something else to justify war

[SF_and_Coffee]

I've never supported the notion of religion being behind wars. Its just a scapgoat and without religion cruel hearted people would just find something else to justify war

Even when it's being used as a scapegoat, that still amounts to religion being used as a tool, in this case as a tool for promoting violence and destruction.

[Col.Foley]

I'm neither. The primary component of my personal faith approach these days is Earth-centered, which is also mentioned.

As is explained on the site, there is no one clear answer to that. "Unitarian" as a term was first chosen by its adherents during the time of the Reformation because they were not Trinitarian; that is, they believed that God was one being, rather than a trinity, and that Jesus was not an incarnation of a Deity in the sense that the Trinitarian faiths (such as the RCC) believed. I agree with that statement regarding Jesus.

Because we celebrate together the things that we have in common, and respect together the things that make us different. Faith is ultimately a very personal matter, and even within a Roman Catholic congregation, not every individual is going to have exactly the same set of beliefs right down to the least little detail. We just have differences at a larger level of resolution, and our whole religion centers on looking for the common ground that unites people of varying backgrounds, rather than looking for what divides us.

I actually have a good friend who is Jewish and Buddhist... and she is not a UU. Meanwhile, within the UU faith, we neither ask nor expect that each of our members personally espouse all aspects of the elements that go into our religion. If that were required, then I couldn't be one, because I do not espouse elements of Judaism.

Believe me I appreciate both the need for coming to God individually and having an individual belief, that is the point of religion I believe, and I do appreciate the need for uniting and building a coalitions and finding common ground and the divine principles writ large. But I think that is a matter for a coalition and not a religion. Religions need to have something to base themselves on. Now I am not saying that it is NOT a religion, you are free to believe what you want, I am saying it seems way too general for my personal tastes. And I do not have an answer still to 'Earth Centered' which I believe could be highly dangerous but I need to know the context.

Well maybe that was a bad example because a Jew is both an ethniticity and a religion....but you do not espouse certain elements of Judaism?

[DocWhoGater]

I must hold up the atheist flag here. I find most religions full of contradictions and holes and don't understand how anyone can follow a god who makes them jump through hoops. I also find the heart of most religions to be selfish, that you be good to your fellow man in order to get into heaven and that is the only reason. I also think that religion has a big part in the worlds problems, the extremists scare me, the fact that they truly believe they are doing right by their religions and they will be rewarded for killing people.
All in all, massive sceptic and believe most religions came about as scams

You seem to have had a bad past experience? I do not follow a god who makes me jump though hoops. I follow God, who only requires one simple thing from his People that we belive that His Son died on the cross for our sins. It's not about how good you are, or what good deeds you do, it's about how much you love His Son and belive in Him. Make any sense?

[Col.Foley]

This, yes, exactly.

And so is religion really. I mean yes it is important in the end but I do wonder if God cares what religion you are as long as you follow His Law, and thus also believe in Him. Let people be judged on their own.

I've never supported the notion of religion being behind wars. Its just a scapgoat and without religion cruel hearted people would just find something else to justify war

Well religion has caused war but you are right I think more then not. Its more about power

Even when it's being used as a scapegoat, that still amounts to religion being used as a tool, in this case as a tool for promoting violence and destruction.

[Col.Foley]

You seem to have had a bad past experience? I do not follow a god who makes me jump though hoops. I follow God, who only requires one simple thing from his People that we belive that His Son died on the cross for our sins. It's not about how good you are, or what good deeds you do, it's about how much you love His Son and belive in Him. Make any sense?

no but that is a whole nother ball of wax

[SF_and_Coffee]

Believe me I appreciate both the need for coming to God individually and having an individual belief, that is the point of religion I believe, and I do appreciate the need for uniting and building a coalitions and finding common ground and the divine principles writ large. But I think that is a matter for a coalition and not a religion.

Well, we feel differently about it.

Religions need to have something to base themselves on. Now I am not saying that it is NOT a religion, you are free to believe what you want, I am saying it seems way too general for my personal tastes.

Well, from what I've told you and what's at the links I've posted, what we base ourselves on should be clear. It may be different from what your beliefs are (which makes me wonder why you say you considered UUism, if you knew nothing about it) but we do have some pretty clear beliefs. It may simply be that what we consider important may not be what you consider important. That probably goes both ways.

And I do not have an answer still to 'Earth Centered' which I believe could be highly dangerous but I need to know the context.

Dangerous how? It's simply another type of belief. Good grief, the only time religion is dangerous is when it's used as a tool to make people miserable or a justification for killing them or enslaving them.

Well maybe that was a bad example because a Jew is both an ethniticity and a religion....but you do not espouse certain elements of Judaism?

I don't espouse any elements of Judaism. Jewish beliefs don't form a portion of my personal theology.

[squirrely1]

You seem to have had a bad past experience? I do not follow a god who makes me jump though hoops. I follow God, who only requires one simple thing from his People that we belive that His Son died on the cross for our sins. It's not about how good you are, or what good deeds you do, it's about how much you love His Son and belive in Him. Make any sense?

YAY!! *high fives* Makes sense to me

[SF_and_Coffee]

And so is religion really. I mean yes it is important in the end but I do wonder if God cares what religion you are as long as you follow His Law, and thus also believe in Him. Let people be judged on their own.

Well, just remember that the identification of God as a "he", the identification of a particular body of "law" as "his" and the idea that "he" will "judge" anyone are themselves portions of a particular religion -- or rather, a group of religions: the Abrahamic faiths.

Those of us whose personal theologies don't really jibe with most of the Abrahamic elements tend to think that God, whoever He, She, or They might be, really doesn't give a fig about religion per se, only about how people treat one another.

Which, ironically, does go right back to something that is also present in Christianity and Judaism: the idea that the Law is subordinate to Love.

[Col.Foley]

Well, we feel differently about it.

Well, from what I've told you and what's at the links I've posted, what we base ourselves on should be clear. It may be different from what your beliefs are (which makes me wonder why you say you considered UUism, if you knew nothing about it) but we do have some pretty clear beliefs. It may simply be that what we consider important may not be what you consider important. That probably goes both ways.

Dangerous how? It's simply another type of belief. Good grief, the only time religion is dangerous is when it's used as a tool to make people miserable or a justification for killing them or enslaving them.

I don't espouse any elements of Judaism. Jewish beliefs don't form a portion of my personal theology.

Well UUism two things attracted to me about it first that I had heard which inspired my initial inquiry: One the Founding Fathers a good many of them were it, or the base religion way back when, and two it was more aout individual belief and it firmly recognized the individual belief to come to God in their own unique way.

Answer my question and I might answer yours...so your post already has part of what my answer is going to be.

Gotcha.

[Col.Foley]

Well, just remember that the identification of God as a "he", the identification of a particular body of "law" as "his" and the idea that "he" will "judge" anyone are themselves portions of a particular religion -- or rather, a group of religions: the Abrahamic faiths.

Those of us whose personal theologies don't really jibe with most of the Abrahamic elements tend to think that God, whoever He, She, or They might be, really doesn't give a fig about religion per se, only about how people treat one another.

Which, ironically, does go right back to something that is also present in Christianity and Judaism: the idea that the Law is subordinate to Love.

Well I am not sure that Jews really assign him a gender either I just tend to go with He. Though I should probably cut that out.

[_WraithQueen_]

You seem to have had a bad past experience? I do not follow a god who makes me jump though hoops. I follow God, who only requires one simple thing from his People that we belive that His Son died on the cross for our sins. It's not about how good you are, or what good deeds you do, it's about how much you love His Son and belive in Him. Make any sense?

No, I just grew up in a really non-religious environment. The hoops I was referring to were things like giving stuff up for lent, or not eating pork or, most annoyingly, not mixing dairy with meat. Those little things just make me lose faith in religions as they just don't make sense. Also the modern interpretation of the bible in some cases, like people yelling about how being gay is wrong, but then ignore the things in the same bit of the bible about how eating shellfish is wrong, or wearing nylon is wrong. I think what annoys me most is people using religion to justify doing evil things. I am just too cynical to enjoy religion

Also, it is hard to believe him when he can't decide who he is. He is god, and Jesus, and the holy spirit, and they are the same person, but then separate as well. Cannot get my head around that.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Well UUism two things attracted to me about it first that I had heard which inspired my initial inquiry: One the Founding Fathers a good many of them were it, or the base religion way back when, and two it was more aout individual belief and it firmly recognized the individual belief to come to God in their own unique way.

That is also one of the things I like about it.

Answer my question and I might answer yours...so your post already has part of what my answer is going to be.

What, the Earth-centered thing? Basically, some of the ideas that relate to Divinity from faiths older than the Abrahamic faiths, especially from portions of the world where the Abrahamic faiths, as represented by Christianity and Islam (since Judaism doesn't proselytize) are relative latecomers. I believe that the Divine can and does choose to be approached in whatever manner people find approachable, whether that be as an image of Christ on a cross, an imageless concept, or anything else. I believe that the Divine answers to many names, including those from outside the Abrahamic tradition.

In short, I believe that the Divine, or God if you prefer, is far too large to be fully encompassed by human understanding, or to be fully defined/described by human language, and will never fit in any box that is small enough to be understood by human beings, let alone made by them.

[Col.Foley]

No, I just grew up in a really non-religious environment. The hoops I was referring to were things like giving stuff up for lent, or not eating pork or, most annoyingly, not mixing dairy with meat. Those little things just make me lose faith in religions as they just don't make sense. Also the modern interpretation of the bible in some cases, like people yelling about how being gay is wrong, but then ignore the things in the same bit of the bible about how eating shellfish is wrong, or wearing nylon is wrong. I think what annoys me most is people using religion to justify doing evil things. I am just too cynical to enjoy religion

Ahem 21 Percent of Jews in the US only do Kosher...ahem.

[SF_and_Coffee]

Heh, I have Jewish friends who eat pork all the time. I also have an Orthodox Jewish friend who keeps a strict kosher home.

[Col.Foley]

That is also one of the things I like about it.

What, the Earth-centered thing? Basically, some of the ideas that relate to Divinity from faiths older than the Abrahamic faiths, especially from portions of the world where the Abrahamic faiths, as represented by Christianity and Islam (since Judaism doesn't proselytize) are relative latecomers. I believe that the Divine can and does choose to be approached in whatever manner people find approachable, whether that be as an image of Christ on a cross, an imageless concept, or anything else. I believe that the Divine answers to many names, including those from outside the Abrahamic tradition.

In short, I believe that the Divine, or God if you prefer, is far too large to be fully encompassed by human understanding, or to be fully defined/described by human language, and will never fit in any box that is small enough to be understood by human beings, let alone made by them.

but what does that have to do with the Earth?

[Col.Foley]

Heh, I have Jewish friends who eat pork all the time. I also have an Orthodox Jewish friend who keeps a strict kosher home.

I have Jewish friends that celebrate Xmas.

[_WraithQueen_]

Ahem 21 Percent of Jews in the US only do Kosher...ahem.

That also confuses me, why do only some follow it? Are you a bad jew if you don't, or are the people who do reading too much into the Hebrew bible? Should all religious texts be taken as metaphor and just the key moral points be taken out and followed?