Day of the Moon (3202)

[Blencathra]

River's time line makes my brain ache. God only knows how the Moff keeps it straight in his head. Perhaps he has a chart or something?

So am I getting this right? From our perspective, River is moving away from the Library. But from River's perspective she's moving closer. That means that sometime soon, the Doctor will take her to the Singing Towers and give her his screwdriver. ???? No that's not right. HELP!

Just occurred to me, and sorry if this has been suggested already, but could the little girl be River?

It's just that there was that whole scene in the opening episode where she says that the Doctor appeared to her when she was younger (but I know - it's a bit of a jump) and knew everything about her (next episode with the girl in, maybe?).

It only occurred to me when I remembered Moffat saying that River's identity would be revealed this series, I'm guessing all or most of it in episode 7 (before it retires until autumn).

I think that the young girl is River as well. I'm also coming to believe that River is Amy & Rory's child complete with "time head".

We know that Alex Kingston says that

Spoiler:

River lies, and that Steve Moffat said in a tweet that River remembers Rory in the Big Bang but pretends that she doesn't. I wonder what else she is lying about.

My own wild & wacky theory is that the Silence have been manipulating things for a very long time, perhaps even to the extent of getting Amy and Rory on board the TARDIS together in order to produce this "time child" It might explain why the Doctor doesn't recognise River as a Time Lord. Because essentially she isn't.

[Sealurk]

Yeah, River pretending she hasn't met Rory before...she must know in TPA that she's met Rory before, probably many times and that it is the last time they'll meet from her perspective, but he hasn't yet met her from his perspective so she's making things simpler for him and Amy by acting like she doesn't know them, because it's early days for them in terms of time travel and they may not yet be used to the way of thinking it demands.

Moffat should get a knighthood just for keeping this all straight in his head, let alone the rest of his writing!

[Mr Evil 37]

It can't be absolutely in reverse order, I agree, and from our perspective River is moving away from the Library (since the Doctor is, as it's already happened to him), but since River hasn't been there yet, and she dies there, SHE is moving towards it, not away from it. And Time of Angels cannot be the story directly before the Library, because afterwards she didn't have the screw driver.

[Flyboy]

It can't be absolutely in reverse order, I agree, and from our perspective River is moving away from the Library (since the Doctor is, as it's already happened to him), but since River hasn't been there yet, and she dies there, SHE is moving towards it, not away from it. And Time of Angels cannot be the story directly before the Library, because afterwards she didn't have the screw driver.

I disagree.

I think that it's all happening in reverse order, and when the Doctor meets River for HER first time, THEN he'll nip into HER future to give her the screw driver. From our perspective she's moving backwards in time, not forwards.

[Nth Chevron]

OK, after that episode i think i'll open with an obligatory Eli phrase -

"Ok, what the F-"

Almost nothing answered and more questions thrown up

As for theories on, well anything thats happened these past 2weeks, heres my share

We have a few clues and pointers as to whats going on,

The Suit

As per what River said, the suit is meant to keep you alive, like the Pandorica, you dont even need to eat. We also know from S4, that a human-timelord metacrysis is impossible. Donna burnt up.

What if the suit is designed to keep a half human half Timelord body alive until it can find its own equilibrium, Donna was an adult and the girl was a child so it stands to reason any biological changes would be easier for her system adapt to being a child.

The Silence

Who. What. When. Where. Why.

The 5 W's that we still havent had answered, they have been controlling Humanity since the wheel, they are for all intents and purposes, invisible in society. They even have an effect on the Doctor, which is unusual, that also asks a question "What if the Silence has been on Gallifrey before?"

They appear to want something time related as per the Time-engine, but if they have the tech to create a pseudo TARDIS, why do they need to stay on Earth, couldnt they just go somewhere else and forge an empire that no-one knows is there?

Also, why forge your invisible empire on a planet known to attract trouble regularly, and from the worst of the worst? - The only answer to that would be they know the Doctor, he would come and he would save the planet and by extension the Silence.

The Girl

A little girl, possibly engineered, most likely fostered by the Silence. Looks human but can also regenerate.

Two possibilities that i can see

1 - The girl is the Doctors granddaughter or Rani, if the Silence have been on Earth that long then its possible they know of those 2.

2 - The girl is a Timelord/Human hybrid, somehow hidden from the innate ability other Timelords have of detecting each other. Which makes me wonder, IF she was created (as these 2 species combining cannot happen naturally(which doesnt explain the Doctor) then what if the Silence are attempting to a make semi new Timelord race open to their influence, and thus the Silence will then control time and space LITERALLY.

If that is the case, why didnt they use the original Timelords, unless the Timewar has something to do with this.

As for the TARDIS, a good point was made about her being sentient, which could mean the Silents have an affect on her, but if there have been Silents in the TARDIS, since the Lodger and 11th Hour as has been speculated and pointed out, then what does this mean for the TARDIS, and how much of the Doctors actions of wiping out MASSIVE threats could actually be credited to him?

I hate this show sometimes, my heads to small for all these thoughts ..

N.C

*P.S - After much thinking and deliberation i have discovered the most important line in this weeks episode.

"The Silence wanted a spacesuit, so they built a rocket to goto the moon"

Makes no sense on that scale, its like buying a car for a Radio.

[knowles2]

I'm just going to throw this out there: what if Amy's pregnancy is a result of Silence meddling in order to create their own Time Lord?

Consider:

• due to the nature of the Silence, the Doctor wouldn't have to remember any medical procedure
• the Silence held Amy, in their homebrew TARDIS for some amount of time and we don't yet know why
• the TARDIS was flashing between positive and negative....the TARDIS is also alive, and may be affected by the Silence in ways as yet unknown
• the 'homemade' TARDIS in The Lodger last year wouldn't work until it had a proper pilot, vis a vis the Doctor, but then he was too much for it. Perhaps a Time Lord 'diluted' with human DNA would do the trick

This has been Wild Theory #23492

All ready threw that one out there digifluid in my first comment on this thread.

[mr_kennedy]

That was simply amazing

River's storyline just gets more confusing with each passing episode

[Alan]

That was simply amazing

River's storyline just gets more confusing with each passing episode

But it will all straighten itself out as the series progresses. I say let it get more confused. Its gonna make the answer as to who River Song is all the much more of a bigger revelation.

[jameshawking]

Here's the short of it:

It's not absolute. Otherwise their diaries would be ENTIRELY useless, since if it was an absolutely inverse relationship, then they would NEVER, EVER have the same memories and history. So no, they could never reminisce on Jim the Fish.


Also, Nth: They were there since before humanity ever really lured the Doctor's eye. So it's fairly unreasonable to assume that they were drawn there because of him.

Also, if you never were in any real danger, why wouldn't you go to Earth? It's been established that they have technology from over a dozen different species, so I, personally, would picture Earth, and them staying there (if they have) as simply logical, since it is equivalent to an outer-space junkyard. You have Dalek technology, Cybermen technology, Syccorax technology, Silurian, Sontaran, and....how many others, exactly?

If you make your life off of being a technological parasite, why not be where it all seems to gather?

[Nth Chevron]

On a low-tech planet in a Linear timeline, instead of zipping across Space and Time and gathering the materials and tech you need in half the .. time...

Why set-up a slavage operation on Earth, when with their abilities, could conceivably find the biggest space empire out there and rule it from the Shadows.

N.C

[Galileo_Galilee]

I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

[Blencathra]

I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

Sorry I don't understand that bit about her being Merlin because she's going backwards in time. Can you explain? Are you talking about Battlefield?

[Sealurk]

Sorry I don't understand that bit about her being Merlin because she's going backwards in time. Can you explain? Are you talking about Battlefield?

In the myths, Merlin aged backwards, which is how he was able to tell the future.

The problem is I don't think River herself is moving backwards through time, it's just how she and the Doctor meet.

[Nth Chevron]

I think River might actually have some Timelady in her.

In the Time Engine of the Silents, she spins round and shoots about 5 in a spinning circular motion without seeing where they are.

The Doctor has shown this power, like when he stepped between the rotor blades of the massive fan in the Eccleston episode of the Sol star going supernova.

N.V

[Blencathra]

In the myths, Merlin aged backwards, which is how he was able to tell the future.

The problem is I don't think River herself is moving backwards through time, it's just how she and the Doctor meet.

I had to look it up as I've not heard that before. I can only find the reference to Merlin aging backwards in T H White's The Once and Future King. Unless someone knows of another source.

I agree though, I don't think River is solely moving backwards either.

[jameshawking]

Considering the fact that River said she "hates wizards from fairy tales, because they all end up being him [The Doctor]...and he HAS "aged backwards" with each regeneration being younger than the last, just about...

[Alan]

I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

In the 1989 story Battlefield, its already been addressed that the Doctor's future may very well be as Merlin.

[Zarius]

I just had a wild thought... since River is going backwards, could that make her.....


Merlin?

She pretended to be a male in order to foster an important historical event?

Hmmmmm.....

The Doctor is Merlin, watch the 1989 serial "Battlefield", at some point, the future Doctor (probably 11) travels to an alternate dimension and acts as Arthur's advisor and becomes an enemy of Morganna, when she and her knights travel to our dimension, they meet an earlier incarnation of The Doctor (7) who has to bluff his way into finding out more about the war there fighting and eventually discovers a warning from his future self.

I think River might actually have some Timelady in her.

In the Time Engine of the Silents, she spins round and shoots about 5 in a spinning circular motion without seeing where they are.

The Doctor has shown this power, like when he stepped between the rotor blades of the massive fan in the Eccleston episode of the Sol star going supernova.

Did it ever occur to you those scenes were just cheesy cinema-esque director's choices?

"Ah, Human beings...always seeing patterns in things that arent there"

-The Eighth Doctor.

[wise one]

maybe river shoots the doctor since "she killed the best man she ever known????

[Alan]

maybe river shoots the doctor since "she killed the best man she ever known????

I doubt it for this reason - at the beginning of The Impossible Astronaut, River is still locked away in a Stormcage Containment Facility for the death of whoever it is she killed as she revealed in The Time of Angels. If River was in the Astronaut gear and did kill the Doctor then the River on the beach that just escaped from the Stormcage and is watching from a distance along with Amy and Rory wouldn't have been surprised at what she saw because she's already been through it. Whoever River killed I don't think it was the Doctor and I don't think the Astronaut is River.