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Thread: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

  1. #41
    Colonel iiradned's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    One grammatical error that always throws me out is the use of "could of", "would of" and "should of". Judging by the phrasing of the rest of the sentence I think the writer means "could've", "would've" and "should've".

    Another is the use of "drug" as a past tense of "drag". Unless the term is used by someone of the Redneck persuasion I always correct in it the fics I beta read.
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  2. #42
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by iiradned View Post
    One grammatical error that always throws me out is the use of "could of", "would of" and "should of". Judging by the phrasing of the rest of the sentence I think the writer means "could've", "would've" and "should've".

    Another is the use of "drug" as a past tense of "drag". Unless the term is used by someone of the Redneck persuasion I always correct in it the fics I beta read.
    I've seen the first one plenty of times, but never the second one. That's just odd.

  3. #43
    First Lieutenant Feast of the Muse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by iiradned View Post
    One grammatical error that always throws me out is the use of "could of", "would of" and "should of". Judging by the phrasing of the rest of the sentence I think the writer means "could've", "would've" and "should've".
    Oh wow. I used to have a friend who was a songwriter. (Ok, I have lots of those, but still, I don't hang with her anymore.) She is a year older than me, and we went to high school and college together. We even managed to get the same English classes (I got AP), in which we did kick major booty. Anyway, so one day I type up one of her new songs for a 'press kit' (for a class, not the real deal) and give it to her to proof.

    I had typed this:
    It must've been you, it must've been me...
    Which she changed to:
    It must of been you, it must of been me...
    So we argued about it for a bit, but in the end I turned in a PK with the correct version of the words and let her keep one she had 'corrected' for her own purposes. I'm still trying to figure out why she insisted that it be a preposition. I still wonder what she thought she was trying to say.

  4. #44
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Goose View Post
    I've seen the first one plenty of times, but never the second one. That's just odd.
    The second one seems to be endemic to certain parts of the United States. I don't think it exists anywhere else in the Anglophonic world.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

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  5. #45
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Dear Ghu, I think I'd have had to ask her that point-blank, Brooke.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

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  6. #46
    First Lieutenant Feast of the Muse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    The second one seems to be endemic to certain parts of the United States. I don't think it exists anywhere else in the Anglophonic world.
    You can certainly find it in these parts of the United States. For more fun, try Texas, Alabama, and Mississippi, as well. Or, anywhere else rednecks have moved and reproduced.

    Also @ SF, I don't bother with her anymore. She's very negative, always has to be right... and is not worth my energy.

  7. #47
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Oh yeah... I heard plenty of it in Northern Kentucky, too.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3

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  8. #48
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    the most common grammatical errors i see are the direct translations from another language.

    can get very hilarious

  9. #49
    First Lieutenant Feast of the Muse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Mathpiglet shared a link with me about using colors and shapes to help kids learn grammar, and it reminded me that I wanted to explore the topic of synesthesia that SF brought up.

    Now, I do relate colors to some letter and numbers, but honestly I think that is because I saw them that way a lot as a child, maybe above a chalkboard. I wonder this because they rhyme or otherwise correlate, such as same having the same number of syllables - two is blue, three is green, seven is yellow, for example.

    Anyone else relate letters, words or numbers to something like colors or flavors? I'd like to hear about that!

  10. #50
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    I'll explain my personal version of synesthesia, to the best of my ability. It's more difficult to describe then perhaps it should be...

    To me, letters have colors. Not when I read them on a page, or even when I write or type them. But they do when I think about them. A, for example, is red. B varies; some days it's kind of a burnt-orage, while on other days it's blue-green. C is always orange. D is dark brown. F is yellow, G is bluish, H is light blue... well, you get the picture. Honestly, I have no idea where these colors come from, or why they're there, but the entire alphabet is a colorful experience for me. Numbers are the same way.

    I also have spatial "maps" in my head for various things. The alphabet occupies one, and the numbers from 0 to several thousand occupy a different one. The months of the year map to a clockwise oval, and they also have colors. Days of the week have colors, too, though they're somewhat mutable.

    All in all, it's kind of an interesting way to experience the world, although when I was very young, I thought everyone experienced it this way.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3

    now also appearing on DeviantArt
    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

  11. #51
    First Lieutenant Feast of the Muse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    I also have spatial "maps" in my head for various things. The alphabet occupies one, and the numbers from 0 to several thousand occupy a different one. The months of the year map to a clockwise oval, and they also have colors.
    That is good to know about the calendar. Mine forms a circle with summer at the bottom, winter at top, and spring to the left, fall to the right, so mine goes counter-clockwise (as I envision it in front of me). I also see that with lots of colors, but those go with the colors in nature of the seasons, so I don't think much of it. I kinda thought I was strange for seeing it that way, though. Clocks feel like they go the wrong way to me, but I'm so 'weird' that I use a digital 24-hour clock anyway. (Doing twelve hours twice seems really silly to me.)

    Also, I have trouble with the alphabet. I know all the letters, but they don't want to stay in order in my brain. I have to recite a block of letters in order if I want to make something alphabetical. They just float around together and hang out, but they won't stay in parade formation like the numbers do.

    So, do your flavors or smells also come with an associated letter or number?

  12. #52
    Lieutenant Colonel SF_and_Coffee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    No, flavors and smells don't really seem to associate with anything other than they'd normally be associated with. Neither do sounds, for the most part.

    And yeah, winter at the top, summer at the bottom, and the colors of the month seem to be a combination of the seasons the month belongs to and the colors the letters that make up the name of the month.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3

    now also appearing on DeviantArt
    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

  13. #53
    First Lieutenant Feast of the Muse's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Ok, I just found a great example of proper punctuation.

    "Luckily all of your counterparts were as remarkable as you," she chuckled, trailing her fingers through short blonde hair. "Lord, you have no idea what it felt like to walk into that lab and have fifteen versions of you staring back at me. I felt like the ‘dish of the day’." She fanned herself, blushing again at the memory. Sam giggled.

    Please note the single quotes inside the double quotes, and the period placement. Yes, this makes me happy.

    Here is the link if you like Sam/Janet (which I propose we call 'Samnet', or perhaps just 'Jam').

  14. #54
    First Lieutenant Goose's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Feast of the Muse View Post
    Please note the single quotes inside the double quotes, and the period placement. Yes, this makes me happy.
    In British English, the common usage is single quotation marks, and double quotation marks for quotes within quotes. Both usages are acceptable however, and whatever way you do, alternate between single and double for quotes within quotes (within quotes with quotes, etc.). The wrong usage of quotation marks really bugs me, so good example there, Muse!

  15. #55
    Phil Davis Cold Fuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    No, flavors and smells don't really seem to associate with anything other than they'd normally be associated with. Neither do sounds, for the most part.

    And yeah, winter at the top, summer at the bottom, and the colors of the month seem to be a combination of the seasons the month belongs to and the colors the letters that make up the name of the month.
    Very interesting synesthesia experience. I don't experience anything like that but I've definitely got the Sound → color synesthesia going. I've always used visual metaphors to describe sounds before, much to everyone else's confusion. For example, the TRON: Legacy soundtrack by Daft Punk is generally quite murky, dark, and thick at times. The Doctor Who series 5 soundtrack is often very bright and transparent to my ears.

    Certain sounds also have corresponding colors to me. The biggest example I can think of this is if it's very late at night and very quiet and I turn off all the lights to that it's virtually pitch black, my mind will often generate... visual pulses of color that correspond to sounds that I might hear. This occurs even more if I close my eyes. A sound that startles me will create a bright red-orange "spot" that I can actually see when my eyes are closed. More soothing sounds tend to create a "haze" with a bluish-greenish tint.


  16. #56
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Okay, maybe I've got more of the sound thing going on than I'd really realized. It's probably overshadowed by the very pronounced manifestation of the other synesthetic aspects of my own personal experience. I do experience certain sounds, or sound qualities, as "dark" or "murky" or, yes, "thick" though I might be more likely to apply the term "dense". And some do come across as very light, or clear, or for that matter, brittle and/or crystalline.

    I think I tend to paint those as textural elements. And many of the "darker" sounds will come across to me as either midnight blue, deeply violet, or occasionally, so deeply crimson that they are nearly black. But again, it's something that isn't as strong an experience for me as letters and numbers having color, or my mental "maps" of things.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3

    now also appearing on DeviantArt
    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

  17. #57
    Phil Davis Cold Fuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Quote Originally Posted by SF_and_Coffee View Post
    Okay, maybe I've got more of the sound thing going on than I'd really realized. It's probably overshadowed by the very pronounced manifestation of the other synesthetic aspects of my own personal experience. I do experience certain sounds, or sound qualities, as "dark" or "murky" or, yes, "thick" though I might be more likely to apply the term "dense". And some do come across as very light, or clear, or for that matter, brittle and/or crystalline.

    I think I tend to paint those as textural elements. And many of the "darker" sounds will come across to me as either midnight blue, deeply violet, or occasionally, so deeply crimson that they are nearly black. But again, it's something that isn't as strong an experience for me as letters and numbers having color, or my mental "maps" of things.
    As well as the textural elements, certain key signatures in music correspond to colors visually in my mind. They're usually pretty consistent too. For example, I'm listening to something in G-sharp minor right now (Daft Punk) and it's... purple to me, as strange as that sounds. I've almost always associated purple with that key signature for whatever reason. Whereas something in B-flat major always feels, um, orange or yellow/orange to me. C major is white. Certain compositions also evoke tastes. There's a Brahms piano intermezzo that makes me think of... chocolate because of its key signature and texture, though I'm sure that's not at all what someone else will think.

    I do have a little bit of the visual synesthesia going. For a long time, I've had a metaphorical "memory warehouse" (to borrow a metaphor from Stephen King) where I have an imaginary blackboard where the alphabet is stored. The warehouse also has lots of other junk in it as well, like a strange multicolored number table from 8th grade demonstrating how the Sieve of Eratosthenes works. There's also a large multicolored wheel where I visually think about the musical circle of 5ths.


  18. #58
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    "Memory warehouse". I like that term. (I don't read King, so I hadn't encountered it before.)

    On a related note, I have the sort of memory which relates things to the settings in which I first encountered or learned of them, at least much of the time. For that reason, certain historical facts are overlaid on the experience of being in, say, my 12th-grade history classroom, even as I also envision them in other ways. Certain pieces of music are forever tied to the time and place where I first heard them; in fact, that's probably one of the strongest cases of memory association for me, which is perhaps not surprising.

    Historical events that have taken place within my lifetime are overlaid upon the memory of where I was or what I was doing, and I don't mean just the big things like the Berlin Wall coming down, the Challenger disaster or what happened to the Twin Towers. Much smaller things will have the same sorts of associations.

    And as far as literature, I can't read a story without my mind insisting on setting large portions of it in places that correspond visually and in many other ways to places I've been, often to houses that I or my friends lived in during my childhood, or in the case of outdoor settings, my rural neighborhood as a child.

    (Yes, I'm female. Okay?)
    Sum, ergo scribo...

    My own site ** FF.net * All That We Leave Behind * Symbiotica ** AO3

    now also appearing on DeviantArt
    Explore Colonel Frank Cromwell's odyssey after falling through the Stargate in Season Two's A Matter of Time, and follow Jack's search for him. Significant Tok'ra supporting characters and a human culture drawn from the annals of history. Book One of the series By Honor Bound.

  19. #59
    Phil Davis Cold Fuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Ah, the beauty of associative memory. Sometimes associative memory is emotionally associated, like "memory warehouse" always makes me think of Dreamcatcher and everything associated with that book, especially its humor and bluntness. And then there are cases where associative memory is more of a "fact file" where I don't recall the emotion involved but just the details.

    And then there are the very emotionally charged memories, especially recalling dreams or deeply intense events. Dreams are murky by default. But really emotionally charged events in my waking life are etched in with blazing clarity, like the memories of people who threatened me.


  20. #60
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    Default Re: Grammar / Spelling / Punctuation Discussion and Appreciation (questions welcome!)

    Cannot or can not? I've seen both types, and as far as I'm aware, both are acceptable. Which do you prefer, and why? Personally, I like cannot, because, to me, words generally look better if written together rather than apart (which would probably explain why I love word nevertheless.) In Swedish, which is my mother language, words are mostly written together (fire engine, for example, would be spelt fireengine, though obviously in Swedish), and one of the worst 'sins' of Swedish is to spell a word as two words if they are supposed to be spelt as one. So that's why I tend to, sometime erroneously, prefer English spellings that are spelt as one rather than two words. Anyone else have any thoughts, or preferences?

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