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Thread: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

  1. #1
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Good lord. Our guys have done some underhanded things in the past, whether intentionally or not, but this is really a new low. Use the comm stones to take over a guard captain and president so you can experiment with a potentially world-destroying experiment (on a planet of thousands to millions of people!) when the locals have already said "hell no"? Holy hell guys.

  2. #2

    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    You gotta admit thou, it was a pretty clever thing to do

  3. #3
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Good lord. Our guys have done some underhanded things in the past, whether intentionally or not, but this is really a new low. Use the comm stones to take over a guard captain and president so you can experiment with a potentially world-destroying experiment (on a planet of thousands to millions of people!) when the locals have already said "hell no"? Holy hell guys.
    An your point is? I personally thought it was a pretty smart move but they should have took over someone less high profile say a guard, and they should not have taken over the facility until they had confirmation that Langara has negotiated some sought of deal for use of the facility with the alliance.

    Apart from that is was nice to see SGC use alien technology for there advantage for once and not in a emergency life or death situation.

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant Kaiphantom's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    One thing I liked about Stargate, was that our guys tried to be the best they could be. They really tried to be good guys, when all was said and done. SG-1 got as far as it did because it portrayed the Air Force positively.

    This episode doesn't just throw it out the window, but then goes outside after it just it can squat and take a dump on it. Sorry for the grotesque language, but Woolsey just said "we'll have no part in it" only to go right along with it shortly thereafter. I mean, seriously, WTF?

    Congrats, Earth. You're just another group of bullies in the neighborhood, when I expected so much better after 17 years.

  5. #5
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiphantom View Post
    One thing I liked about Stargate, was that our guys tried to be the best they could be. They really tried to be good guys, when all was said and done. SG-1 got as far as it did because it portrayed the Air Force positively.

    This episode doesn't just throw it out the window, but then goes outside after it just it can squat and take a dump on it. Sorry for the grotesque language, but Woolsey just said "we'll have no part in it" only to go right along with it shortly thereafter. I mean, seriously, WTF?

    Congrats, Earth. You're just another group of bullies in the neighborhood, when I expected so much better after 17 years.
    It was underhanded. It was devious.

    I loved it. Not because I condone it. Because frankly, it's just the sort of thing I think the US military would probably do. Western powers have a habit of being devious. Castro and Cuba anyone?

  6. #6
    Brigadier General
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by darkthunder84 View Post
    You gotta admit thou, it was a pretty clever thing to do
    True... BUT i would hate to be the IOA after this Frak up.

  7. #7
    Remata'Klan jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    It wouldn't be SGU it we didn't do questionably moral things.

  8. #8
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    I think it goes beyond morality to idiocy. 2 planets exploded doesn't translate into "we think it should work" just to save a small crew. Sorry but I don't buy anyone in hwc signing off on this. It would of been more plausible if they wrote it that the real plan was to show the ambassador and top military guy the "poor people" of destiny to illicit sympathy and young and Scott while swapped desire to take extreme measures.

    Bad writing is all this one comes down to IMHO.

    Tim

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant Kaiphantom's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    I loved it. Not because I condone it. Because frankly, it's just the sort of thing I think the US military would probably do. Western powers have a habit of being devious. Castro and Cuba anyone?
    While I agree about real life... the lure of Stargate is the same for most other sci-fi shows: escapism. We watch because it's not reality. In this universe, we are the good guys, or at least try to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by timmciglobal View Post
    I think it goes beyond morality to idiocy. 2 planets exploded doesn't translate into "we think it should work" just to save a small crew. Sorry but I don't buy anyone in hwc signing off on this. It would of been more plausible if they wrote it that the real plan was to show the ambassador and top military guy the "poor people" of destiny to illicit sympathy and young and Scott while swapped desire to take extreme measures.

    Bad writing is all this one comes down to IMHO.
    This. A thousand times, THIS.

    A better Stargate episode, would have Earth going: "The Langarians aren't going for our proposal. As much as we don't like it, the IOA isn't prepared to put billions of lives and diplomatic relations at risk for 70 people on a ship, since even in the best case scenario, we'd still not be able to bring anyone back."

    Telford isn't content with this, and run his own rogue operation. He's doing it to get back on Destiny, so as long as he can make a connection, he can jump through. However, the LA really does show up and take over the facility, and Telford (along with possibly a body swapped Scott and and young), works with Langaran personnel to help retake the facility before the LA can dial out. They succeed, but the Langarans are spooked and disconnect the gate from the core, since the LA method was going to blow up the planet. However, they are grateful for Earth's help, and might be willing, in time, to try Earth's method. But for now, it's too risky politically to risk dialing with the gate hooked up to the core.

    Earth comes out looking like the good guys, and the result is the same: they don't get a lifeline to Destiny... yet. A season or two down the road, the Langarans may finally allow an attempted dialing.

  10. #10
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    I think it was an ingenious use of the stones. Was really impressed with it when it happened. Exactly the kind of thing I can see black-ops doing. I do have to wonder what's going on in Telford's head though as he seems to be the one getting all the buttons pushed.

    Kinda shocked at Woolsey's involvement though.

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  11. #11
    First Lieutenant Starsaber's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    I think it was an ingenious use of the stones. Was really impressed with it when it happened. Exactly the kind of thing I can see black-ops doing. I do have to wonder what's going on in Telford's head though as he seems to be the one getting all the buttons pushed.
    If he keeps this up, what I hope goes through his head is a staff blast. He wasn't this much of a dick when he was brainwashed. Maybe some side effect of his jump to this reality. Clearly not Entropic Cascade Failure (probably since "our" Telford's body was destroyed), but something.

  12. #12
    Colonel Replicator Todd's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post

    Kinda shocked at Woolsey's involvement though.
    Woolsey and I suppose to a lesser extent Mckay seemed to be the only ones against it. But I suppose Earth did expect the Lucian Alliance to be with the Langarans, and boy they were wrong!

    But yeah, I'm slightly confused on how Earth or Homeworld Command was willing to do this. It was neat how they did it though.

  13. #13
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiphantom View Post
    While I agree about real life... the lure of Stargate is the same for most other sci-fi shows: escapism. We watch because it's not reality. In this universe, we are the good guys, or at least try to be.
    That is not why I watch. I like watching realism in my sci-fi. Realism in terms of how people and institutions act.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiphantom View Post
    This. A thousand times, THIS.

    A better Stargate episode, would have Earth going: "The Langarians aren't going for our proposal. As much as we don't like it, the IOA isn't prepared to put billions of lives and diplomatic relations at risk for 70 people on a ship, since even in the best case scenario, we'd still not be able to bring anyone back."

    Telford isn't content with this, and run his own rogue operation. He's doing it to get back on Destiny, so as long as he can make a connection, he can jump through. However, the LA really does show up and take over the facility, and Telford (along with possibly a body swapped Scott and and young), works with Langaran personnel to help retake the facility before the LA can dial out. They succeed, but the Langarans are spooked and disconnect the gate from the core, since the LA method was going to blow up the planet. However, they are grateful for Earth's help, and might be willing, in time, to try Earth's method. But for now, it's too risky politically to risk dialing with the gate hooked up to the core.

    Earth comes out looking like the good guys, and the result is the same: they don't get a lifeline to Destiny... yet. A season or two down the road, the Langarans may finally allow an attempted dialing.
    Not a bad idea.

  14. #14
    Beyond Loch Ness Aurora24's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    In Stargate we have several cases of our people doing something that is underhanded or in a morally gray area with the best of intentions. Take what happened with Michael for example. The people on Atlantis wanted to find a way to eliminate the Wraith as a threat by taking away their need to feed. That experiment blew up in their faces and the Pegasus galaxy suffered the consequences.

    In this case only one planet was affected, and given that Telford was determined to take the Langeran facility by force, it could be argued that this was a more peaceful solution to the problem. However, just because it was more peaceful does not make it the right call. Sadly, even with the Administrator and Captain of security being shown around Destiny I don't think it'll be enough to convince the Langerans to help us. All we've managed to show is that if we feel that another world has something we need than we're perfectly willing to stoop to depths below what the Lucian Alliance is willing to do. It's really sad when Earth comes off looking worse the a brutal criminal organization.


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    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Squeaky clean heroes are sooooo 20th Century.

    They're also very dull.
    I write articles/features/reviews for I'm With Geek.com now.
    Check out our stuff if you get a minute!

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    General the fifth man's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Squeaky clean heroes are sooooo 20th Century.

    They're also very dull.
    Squeaky clean they are not. I still can't believe that Stargate Command was willing to go to those lengths.

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  17. #17
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    I can definitely see people like Telford, Maybourne or even Young being prepared to go through with the mission.

    But for Jack O'Neill to authorize a mission like that, just flies in the face of 17 years of character development.

  18. #18
    Phil Davis Cold Fuzz's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    That is not why I watch. I like watching realism in my sci-fi. Realism in terms of how people and institutions act.
    Hear, hear! Was it a devious move on the part of Homeworld Security? Hell yes. And General O'Neill himself signed off on this. Was it a shrewd move? Hell yes. And Woolsey himself pointed out of course that sovereign states serve their own interests. Do I condone the act? Definitely not. But at the same time it was great to see SGU bring that kind of realism to the screen. Let's be real here. The entire Stargate program started off as black ops. In black ops, nobody keeps their hands clean. Whether he was saying this directly or not, Telford was all about the ends justifying the means.

    Edit: If SGU had gone forward past this season, I wonder about the political fallout of this incident with Langara and Earth's other allies in the Milky Way.
    Last edited by Cold Fuzz; April 5th, 2011 at 08:30 PM.


  19. #19
    First Lieutenant Kaiphantom's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora24 View Post
    In Stargate we have several cases of our people doing something that is underhanded or in a morally gray area with the best of intentions. Take what happened with Michael for example. The people on Atlantis wanted to find a way to eliminate the Wraith as a threat by taking away their need to feed. That experiment blew up in their faces and the Pegasus galaxy suffered the consequences.
    I'd argue things were different. They were directly modifying an enemy, no different than when the SGC was experimenting on Goa'ulds. It raised some interesting moral questions once they became humans, though. However, they were at war, and facing annihilation, and thus their actions understandable. It was no more morally deplorable then shooting an enemy soldier.

    I don't mind morally gray heroes; Garak on DS9 was one of the fascinating characters I've ever seen. I really liked him. I have a problem with our SGC people dipping into that realm. Yeah, it may be cliche, but it seems to be all the rage these days to have morally gray heroes; SGU should not be trying to be BSG. Part of what made SG-1 and Atlantis stand out, was that they really tried to be the good guys.

    And everyone here did like that, because they liked SG-1 and SGA. Or perhaps we have some people here that weren't really fans of those two shows, but became hooked on SGU. ;p

  20. #20
    Miami Metro Forensic Analyst spinny magee's Avatar
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    Default Re: So that was pretty much the most underhanded thing we've ever done

    I never thought i would say this

    But no wonder it was cancelled

    To plan a great episode and make it a steampile of a particular s word.
    Tst

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