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Why would anyone want to ascend?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Raven Gold View Post
    Those prior devices were only a temporary solution and were introduced far to late make the difference. If the Ancients blocked the very first prior, it would all have been a much more boring show to watch.
    yeah, i think part of the reason they didn't have the ancients interfer was that they would lose the underdogs against the powerful enemy.

    however i do think it would be cool if daniel managed to convince the ancients to put aside their laws and stop the ori.
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      #17
      Originally posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
      Horsecrap! The Ori are exploiting the same knowledge that the Ancients developed for ascension and using it to lie to, and enslave other beings. 1) those with power have an absolute DUTY to help others with that power. 2) esp in this case, because the Ori could not be doing what they are doing without Ancient knowledge.
      The Ori ascended and gained the knowledge on their own, they didn't use any of the ancient's knowledge in anything they did.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Raven Gold View Post
        The whole point of the entire SG-1 series from the goa'uld through to the Ori is to know the truth and not believe in something when it is confirmed to be a lie. Comparing Origin to our Earthly religions like Christianity is no comparison, because there is nothing to disprove the faith, while with Origin, there is proof that the Ori lied to their people.
        Earth had absolutely no proof at all that the Ori were lying.
        The only evidence ever given that the Ori didn't ascend people was the word of Orlin. That may have been enough for Earth and it may be enough for us the viewers, but it is by no means a convincing argument to make.

        Going around telling people the Ori are lying because an Ancient told them as much, is equivalent to saying, "Your gods are bad, because our gods say so".

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          #19
          Originally posted by Raven Gold View Post
          There needs to be a middle ground here. One side says if the Ancients acted out against the Ori, they would be worshipped in the same way. The other says it's the Ancients duty to help.

          OK, the ancients help and remove the priors, now suddenly everyone worships them. The Ori also probably helped out in their galaxy, but than they lied and proclaimed themselves as gods. The Ancients don't have to do that, they can tell people not worship them as gods. If there are people who would still continue regardless, that would be their choice.

          The whole point of the entire SG-1 series from the goa'uld through to the Ori is to know the truth and not believe in something when it is confirmed to be a lie. Comparing Origin to our Earthly religions like Christianity is no comparison, because there is nothing to disprove the faith, while with Origin, there is proof that the Ori lied to their people.

          Also a note: The Ancients and the Ori ascended independently of each other, and thus the rules of one does not apply to the other as long as they keep it within their own territories.

          Also another option for the ancients. They could simply have nullified the Priors powers and then when they tried to preach, they'd simply look like fools and get themselves kicked back to their home galaxy.
          What makes you think the ascended ancients aren't receiving "worship energy" from all of the religious people on earth. If that worship energy is radiating from billions of people, how hard would it be to direct it where you want it?

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            #20
            Because that energy isn't directed at the acended ancients. Only the worshipers controll where it's going.
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            Weapons At Maximum!

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              #21
              Originally posted by D Toccs View Post
              What's the Ancients number 1 rule? No ascended being shall help a lower being ascend. The Ori never broke that rule, all the evidence we have says that Oma Desala interfered in the lower plains and broke the rules far more than the Ori ever did, which indirectly led to the deaths of millions of people . . . and everyone thinks that she's just tops.
              Helping someone ascend isn't against the rules. Ascension only seems to have one rule, you can not interfere in the lower planes of existence. There is of course a line and the Ori danced on that line's grave when they ordered the construction of ships, the formation of an army and decided on a Milky Way purge.

              That's not to say the Ancients were any different because helping those unable to ascend could be considered interference. The real issue is when is it considered interference. Daniel tried to stop Anubis from killing everyone on Abydos but Oma stopped him before he took action. Anubis killed everyone on Abydos but Oma saved them all because she'd already taken them through the ascension process.

              So it's really a matter of catch 22. Can't stop Anubis to save the people on Abydos, yet they were saved because Oma helped them ascend.

              Originally posted by D Toccs View Post
              Earth had absolutely no proof at all that the Ori were lying.
              The only evidence ever given that the Ori didn't ascend people was the word of Orlin. That may have been enough for Earth and it may be enough for us the viewers, but it is by no means a convincing argument to make.

              Going around telling people the Ori are lying because an Ancient told them as much, is equivalent to saying, "Your gods are bad, because our gods say so".
              It was never about who said what, but who did what. Saying the Ancients told them something gave a bit of credibility, although I do admit I am not sure why. It's not like anyone knew the Ancients were still around, had ascended, could help others ascend or would lift a finger to help even if the universe decided to implode.

              However SG1 has experienced ascension. They saw the monk on Keb ascend, they saw Orlin ascend, they saw Daniel ascend, they saw Skaara ascend and it was all the same pretty light show. Not once did a Prior ascend, not once did an Ori soldier ascend. SG1 knew they didn't ascend people, Orlin just explained why and as it so happened, turned out to be the truth when Adria returned, after she also ascending in the same pretty light show as before. Now Prior's deciding to go KFC on themselves looks cool, but doesn't have the same effect.

              Saying the Ori are bad because the Ancients told them is no different to what the Ori did to their followers, as the Ori said the exact same thing about those living in the Milky Way and any non Origin follower in general.

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                #22
                Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
                Helping someone ascend isn't against the rules. Ascension only seems to have one rule, you can not interfere in the lower planes of existence. There is of course a line and the Ori danced on that line's grave when they ordered the construction of ships, the formation of an army and decided on a Milky Way purge.

                That's not to say the Ancients were any different because helping those unable to ascend could be considered interference. The real issue is when is it considered interference. Daniel tried to stop Anubis from killing everyone on Abydos but Oma stopped him before he took action. Anubis killed everyone on Abydos but Oma saved them all because she'd already taken them through the ascension process.

                So it's really a matter of catch 22. Can't stop Anubis to save the people on Abydos, yet they were saved because Oma helped them ascend.
                I think you've really misunderstood all the ascension stuff. Ascension itself comes with absolutely no rules.
                The non-interference rule is of the Ancients making and they enforce it on every ascended being within their sphere of influence. Helping a lower being ascend is the highest violation of the non-interference rule, that is why Oma was being punished in the first place because by helping people to ascend she inadvertently ascended someone as evil as Anubis.


                Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
                Saying the Ori are bad because the Ancients told them is no different to what the Ori did to their followers, as the Ori said the exact same thing about those living in the Milky Way and any non Origin follower in general.
                Exactly, that is my point. That Earth trying to convert people away from Origin is the same thing as Priors trying to covert people to it. Both of them are just pushing their own beliefs.

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                  #23
                  Is there any proof ever given that being "Ascended" is really all that great of a situation?
                  I like Sharky
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                    #24
                    Originally posted by The Flyattractor View Post
                    Is there any proof ever given that being "Ascended" is really all that great of a situation?
                    Immortality, super powers,invisibility, able to enter people's dreams, ability to travel across the universe with minimal effort, better understanding of everything. The real problem is the non interference rule but it makes perfect sense to have it.

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                      #25
                      The Ancients (or at least "The Others") not only don't care what happens to the entire galaxy at all, they've actively destroyed an entire civilization in order to teach one of their own a lesson, so most of them are pretty bad.

                      That doesn't mean that being an ascended being in and of itself is bad though. Daniel and Oma were not like them, they were just restricted by the Others' rules.
                      "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

                      *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

                      "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

                      "Elizabeth..."

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                        The Ancients (or at least "The Others") not only don't care what happens to the entire galaxy at all, they've actively destroyed an entire civilization in order to teach one of their own a lesson, so most of them are pretty bad.

                        That doesn't mean that being an ascended being in and of itself is bad though. Daniel and Oma were not like them, they were just restricted by the Others' rules.
                        They didn't destroy a civilisation just to teach one of their own (Orlin) a lesson. When Orlin talks about what had happened, he says the race he gave that technology decided to use it for conquest. Chances are that Orlin would have been punished like Chaya, as she decided to protect a race from the Wraith as he decided to protect a race from the Goa'uld. So in the end, he could have been stuck on that world (like he was) defending them himself. It wasn't until they wanted to conquer others that The Others took action to restore the balance.

                        So in the end, what The Others did was for the best.

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                          #27
                          the immortality

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                            #28
                            The Others aren't really moral or immoral, it's like us looking at at a group of say Hunter gatherers and they also posses the belief that they don't have a right to interfere with lower plains.

                            The knowledge of the universe and the power are plenty of reason I'd want to ascend.

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                              #29

                              Why would anyone want to ascend?
                              For the x-ray vision.
                              Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.


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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
                                Horsecrap! The Ori are exploiting the same knowledge that the Ancients developed for ascension and using it to lie to, and enslave other beings. 1) those with power have an absolute DUTY to help others with that power. 2) esp in this case, because the Ori could not be doing what they are doing without Ancient knowledge.
                                Just my interjection here. People with power having a duty to help others is something that's taught, not necessarily true. The whole compassion for others and how you treat other people are all morals imposed by society. It doesn't mean its true.
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