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Thread: Why would anyone want to ascend?

  1. #1
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    Default Why would anyone want to ascend?

    The Ancients/Alterans are a bunch of ***holes and aren't much better morally than the Ori. They have all that power and just sit back and do NOTHING while the galaxy burns in S9 and 10.

    If being ascended means being what they are...I'll pass.

  2. #2
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Actually I think that not interfering in season 9 and 10 was the right call by the Ancients.
    The way I see it, Earth going around telling people not to believe in the Ori is exactly the same as the Ori telling people to believe in them. Both sides were imposing their beliefs on people in order to service their own agendas. The Ancients didn't attempt to sway anyone to their cause or convince people Origin was a lie, they let people believe what they chose to believe.

    The whole mess with Anubis though is a little different, I get that Oma deserved to be punished, she broke the rules and kept breaking them even admitting to Daniel that she had no intention of stopping. Allowing Anubis to cause the chaos he would normally have been able to do is one thing, but sitting back and letting him destroy all life in the galaxy is where I feel it went a bit too far.

    I don't know how you can say that the Ancients are morally no better then the Ori. They have the power to destroy things with a thought and could easily get involved and shape the universe to their liking, that would make them like the Ori. The Ancients do the only moral thing that beings of that power can . . .they don't interfere.

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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    I get it that they don't interfere in what the Goa'uld are doing. However, I find it unacceptable that they don't interfere in the actions of other ascended beings, the Ori, and the Priors who are their sledgehammers.
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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Toccs View Post
    Actually I think that not interfering in season 9 and 10 was the right call by the Ancients.
    The way I see it, Earth going around telling people not to believe in the Ori is exactly the same as the Ori telling people to believe in them. Both sides were imposing their beliefs on people in order to service their own agendas.
    Wrong. The Ori were systematically LYING to the people. They never helped anyone ascend, they just parasitized off of their faith. They were no better than the goau'uld in that they enslaved humanity for their own empowerment.

    Earth was doing the RIGHT thing by informing the galaxy about the Ori's lies.

    I don't know how you can say that the Ancients are morally no better then the Ori. They have the power to destroy things with a thought and could easily get involved and shape the universe to their liking, that would make them like the Ori. The Ancients do the only moral thing that a beings of that power can . . .they don't interfere.
    Bull. They knew what the Ori were up to. They had the power to stop it. And they did NOTHING! They sat on their oh-so-"enlightened" ***es and let the Ori enslave their descendents. When you see evil and do noting to stop if when you have the power to do so, YOU are evil.

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by maneth View Post
    I get it that they don't interfere in what the Goa'uld are doing. However, I find it unacceptable that they don't interfere in the actions of other ascended beings, the Ori, and the Priors who are their sledgehammers.
    Because who are the Ancients to tell people what they can and can't believe or whats good for them or whether or not they can travel to a certain galaxy.

    Unless the ascended Ori themselves show up in the Milky Way, the goings on of the humans and other lower plains beings is not any of the Ancients business.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    Wrong. The Ori were systematically LYING to the people. They never helped anyone ascend, they just parasitized off of their faith. They were no better than the goau'uld in that they enslaved humanity for their own empowerment.

    Earth was doing the RIGHT thing by informing the galaxy about the Ori's lies.
    We will have to agree to disagree on this point because as far as I'm concerned, actively trying to convert people away from a religion you dislike is the same as actively trying to convert people to the religion. Everybody has to make up their own minds.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    They knew what the Ori were up to. They had the power to stop it. And they did NOTHING! They sat on their oh-so-"enlightened" ***es and let the Ori enslave their descendents. When you see evil and do noting to stop if when you have the power to do so, YOU are evil.
    And what would you have the Ancient's do? Swoop down and destroy the Priors and all of the warships thus setting themselves up to be worshiped as the "all powerful gods who saved the galaxy"?
    There were no ascended beings in the Ori invasion fleet, these were human beings fighting for what the believed in. Were they mislead? Sure, but so were the Jaffa. It's not the Ancients place to interfere in the business of the lower plains.

    What's the Ancients number 1 rule? No ascended being shall help a lower being ascend. The Ori never broke that rule, all the evidence we have says that Oma Desala interfered in the lower plains and broke the rules far more than the Ori ever did, which indirectly led to the deaths of millions of people . . . and everyone thinks that she's just tops.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Toccs View Post
    Because who are the Ancients to tell people what they can and can't believe or whats good for them or whether or not they can travel to a certain galaxy.

    Unless the ascended Ori themselves show up in the Milky Way, the goings on of the humans and other lower plains beings is not any of the Ancients business.
    Horsecrap! The Ori are exploiting the same knowledge that the Ancients developed for ascension and using it to lie to, and enslave other beings. 1) those with power have an absolute DUTY to help others with that power. 2) esp in this case, because the Ori could not be doing what they are doing without Ancient knowledge.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Toccs View Post
    We will have to agree to disagree on this point because as far as I'm concerned, actively trying to convert people away from a religion you dislike is the same as actively trying to convert people to the religion. Everybody has to make up their own minds.
    Then Earth should not have fought the goua'uld. Same schtick, different bad guys. The Ori were evil. They were lying. Their "religion" was demonstrably FALSE, just like the goua'uld. "Opinion" doesn't enter into it at all.

    And what would you have the Ancient's do? Swoop down and destroy the Priors and all of the warships thus setting themselves up to be worshiped as the "all powerful gods who saved the galaxy"?
    Yes, to everything but the "setting themselves up to be worshipped" part. It's the least they could do, since it was THEIR knowledge that created the Ori.

    It's not the Ancients place to interfere in the business of the lower plains.
    "All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for Good to do nothing..."

    The Ancients had the power, therefore if they wanted to be classed as Good, they had the duty.

    What's the Ancients number 1 rule? No ascended being shall help a lower being ascend.
    So? That doesn't excuse them from their moral duty to end the threat THEY unleashed on the Universe by not stopping the Ori in the first place.

    all the evidence we have says that Oma Desala interfered in the lower plains and broke the rules far more than the Ori ever did, which indirectly led to the deaths of millions of people . . . and everyone thinks that she's just tops.
    She TRIED to make things better, but was actively prevented by the other Ancients from stopping Anubis as "punishment". MORE blood on the Ancients' hands. Anubis was only able to get away with his crap because the group prevented Oma (and later Daniel) from stopping him.

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    Yes, to everything but the "setting themselves up to be worshipped" part. It's the least they could do, since it was THEIR knowledge that created the Ori.
    The very act of using their ascended powers to destroy an armada would have cause people to worship them.
    What do you mean that the Ancient's knowledge created the Ori, that makes absolutely no sense at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    So? That doesn't excuse them from their moral duty to end the threat THEY unleashed on the Universe by not stopping the Ori in the first place.
    Again how exactly did the Ancients "unleash" the Ori on the universe?
    They have no moral duty to do anything for the lower plains. The Ancients have the power to save everybody in the universe, they could end hunger, cure all disease and remove any negative influence that ever were to exist. They don't do these things because to do so would be to play god.
    Again, with the kind of power they have you can't just save one group of people from one disaster and not another, save Earth from destruction but not Dakara, stop the spread of Origin but not Christianity or Hinduism. The only moral thing to do with that kind of power is to not interfere with those beneath you. To interfere for any reason would make them no better then the Ori

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    She TRIED to make things better, but was actively prevented by the other Ancients from stopping Anubis as "punishment". MORE blood on the Ancients' hands. Anubis was only able to get away with his crap because the group prevented Oma (and later Daniel) from stopping him.
    Oma was not ever prevented from stopping Anubis. She could have done what she did in Threads at any time, she could have done it thousands of years ago when she first ascended Anubis. Instead she chose to keep breaking the very same rule which had led to the whole situation, she knew she could be tricked, she had seen the risks that ascending a lower being posed and she kept doing it. Also it was Oma who stopped Daniel, not the Others.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Wrong. The Ori were systematically LYING to the people. They never helped anyone ascend, they just parasitized off of their faith. They were no better than the goau'uld in that they enslaved humanity for their own empowerment.

    Earth was doing the RIGHT thing by informing the galaxy about the Ori's lies.
    I too have to humbly agree to disagree.First of all many people saw normal men b turned into Priors and this caused a lot of them to believe, especially after seeing the Priors power.At least the Ori were advancing people instead of having them stick their heads into god knows where.
    Secondly many civilizations didn't care if they were lied to......they just needed something to believe in........check out ''Red Sky'' and ''Its Good To Be King''.heck even the Jaffa ;after being enslaved for years by ''false gods'' were still willing to accept the Ori.
    Thirdly........earth was going around preaching their own beliefs......going into ppls lands and telling them Ori are bad ...wen most of these ppl were blessed by the ori .......how many civilizations were wiped out by the Ori due to earth's interference?

    The ancients could have used the ark long time ago but using it meant that people wouldn't have free will.
    Oh and another thing.......earth been hiding the stargate program from its own ppl...but want to go to other worlds and ask others to disclose their program to the entire populace......how is that right?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    I think that they have begun to fear Humans and other species ever since Oma, Daniel and Morgan Le Fay. They cut all ties with us to protect themselves and their rules.


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  12. #12
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    I don't think the ascended beings would fear us... I agree with their policy of non interference, it's not their job to clear up our mess. The only exception is Anubis as that was an ascended interfering with the lower plains, I don't agree with them sitting back and letting Anubis wipe out all life to punish Oma though.
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    There needs to be a middle ground here. One side says if the Ancients acted out against the Ori, they would be worshipped in the same way. The other says it's the Ancients duty to help.

    OK, the ancients help and remove the priors, now suddenly everyone worships them. The Ori also probably helped out in their galaxy, but than they lied and proclaimed themselves as gods. The Ancients don't have to do that, they can tell people not worship them as gods. If there are people who would still continue regardless, that would be their choice.

    The whole point of the entire SG-1 series from the goa'uld through to the Ori is to know the truth and not believe in something when it is confirmed to be a lie. Comparing Origin to our Earthly religions like Christianity is no comparison, because there is nothing to disprove the faith, while with Origin, there is proof that the Ori lied to their people.

    Also a note: The Ancients and the Ori ascended independently of each other, and thus the rules of one does not apply to the other as long as they keep it within their own territories.

    Also another option for the ancients. They could simply have nullified the Priors powers and then when they tried to preach, they'd simply look like fools and get themselves kicked back to their home galaxy.
    Last edited by Raven Gold; March 31st, 2011 at 12:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Gold View Post
    Also another option for the ancients. They could simply have nullified the Priors powers and then when they tried to preach, they'd simply look like fools and get themselves kicked back to their home galaxy.
    No need for the ancients to do this when we could just use the anti prior device. The ancients have no obligation to help out, we were the ones who went to the Ori galaxy and stirred up trouble.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jcvalo View Post
    No need for the ancients to do this when we could just use the anti prior device. The ancients have no obligation to help out, we were the ones who went to the Ori galaxy and stirred up trouble.
    Those prior devices were only a temporary solution and were introduced far to late make the difference. If the Ancients blocked the very first prior, it would all have been a much more boring show to watch.

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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Gold View Post
    Those prior devices were only a temporary solution and were introduced far to late make the difference. If the Ancients blocked the very first prior, it would all have been a much more boring show to watch.
    yeah, i think part of the reason they didn't have the ancients interfer was that they would lose the underdogs against the powerful enemy.

    however i do think it would be cool if daniel managed to convince the ancients to put aside their laws and stop the ori.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devlin Kyle SG-9 View Post
    Horsecrap! The Ori are exploiting the same knowledge that the Ancients developed for ascension and using it to lie to, and enslave other beings. 1) those with power have an absolute DUTY to help others with that power. 2) esp in this case, because the Ori could not be doing what they are doing without Ancient knowledge.
    The Ori ascended and gained the knowledge on their own, they didn't use any of the ancient's knowledge in anything they did.

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant D Toccs's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Gold View Post
    The whole point of the entire SG-1 series from the goa'uld through to the Ori is to know the truth and not believe in something when it is confirmed to be a lie. Comparing Origin to our Earthly religions like Christianity is no comparison, because there is nothing to disprove the faith, while with Origin, there is proof that the Ori lied to their people.
    Earth had absolutely no proof at all that the Ori were lying.
    The only evidence ever given that the Ori didn't ascend people was the word of Orlin. That may have been enough for Earth and it may be enough for us the viewers, but it is by no means a convincing argument to make.

    Going around telling people the Ori are lying because an Ancient told them as much, is equivalent to saying, "Your gods are bad, because our gods say so".

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Gold View Post
    There needs to be a middle ground here. One side says if the Ancients acted out against the Ori, they would be worshipped in the same way. The other says it's the Ancients duty to help.

    OK, the ancients help and remove the priors, now suddenly everyone worships them. The Ori also probably helped out in their galaxy, but than they lied and proclaimed themselves as gods. The Ancients don't have to do that, they can tell people not worship them as gods. If there are people who would still continue regardless, that would be their choice.

    The whole point of the entire SG-1 series from the goa'uld through to the Ori is to know the truth and not believe in something when it is confirmed to be a lie. Comparing Origin to our Earthly religions like Christianity is no comparison, because there is nothing to disprove the faith, while with Origin, there is proof that the Ori lied to their people.

    Also a note: The Ancients and the Ori ascended independently of each other, and thus the rules of one does not apply to the other as long as they keep it within their own territories.

    Also another option for the ancients. They could simply have nullified the Priors powers and then when they tried to preach, they'd simply look like fools and get themselves kicked back to their home galaxy.
    What makes you think the ascended ancients aren't receiving "worship energy" from all of the religious people on earth. If that worship energy is radiating from billions of people, how hard would it be to direct it where you want it?

  20. #20
    Staff Sergeant Raven Gold's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why would anyone want to ascend?

    Because that energy isn't directed at the acended ancients. Only the worshipers controll where it's going.

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