'Twin Destinies' (212) General Discussion

[KEK]

He's a total freaking rock star, from Mars.

[The Destiny]

I hate you.

* spits drink *

haha, that made me laugh due to it's unexpectedness... is that a word?

[RedXian]

Here's my thoughts

*If Telford jumped back 12 hours ... then why didn't he bump into Eli while he was swapped with Dr Lee? I'm guessing that it took longer than 12 hours to packup everything and get ready. But it didn't feel like 12 hours. Unless I missed a reference early on.

* I kind wished that either AltRush or Alt Telford stayed on for a bit longer than one episode. It would have been really interesting look at the differences between the two Rush characters. Especially after one saw all his shipmates pass into oblivion. to my recollection only Farscape has allowed a clone of the main character exist longer than an episode and kept that character part of the major plot (so Tom Riker doesn't count)

* I have to wonder if Telford is a little more mellowed, especially as the only survivor from that offshoot time.

* I thought AltRush went to the chair to see his wife again. And that Rush didn't tell the others about it because then he'd have to talk about his wife.

* As of motives for staying aboard Destiny:
- Rush: It's obvious why Rush wants to stay.
- Young: He has no more ties back home after his divorce, so I think he sees the value of this mission.
- Greer: Totally loyal to Young and will not abandom his Commander.
- Volker: Pprobably there for the mission.
- Varro: Along with the other Lucien Alliance leftovers, he probably faces incarceration back on Earth, besides they all committed to the Destiny Mission as soon as they came aboard.
- Chloe: It's possible that Chloe's decision could be influences by the Blue aliens (assuming that influence still exists) but perhaps she's honoring her father.
- Lt Scott: Only stepped forward after Chole did. Some would say he's pussy whipped
- Lt James: She followed only after Scott did... so I think her decision was becasue she is still carrying a torch for him.
- TJ: She probably hopes that she will find her baby again, going back to Earth will mean giving up on that hope.
- Eli: He really dragged his feet of the decision, he's only got his mother back home, yet ALL of his friends (whom he wanted to keep in touch on a regular basis) with have chosen to stay.

That's all my thoughts at the moment.

[Lahela]

Here's my thoughts

*If Telford jumped back 12 hours ... then why didn't he bump into Eli while he was swapped with Dr Lee? I'm guessing that it took longer than 12 hours to packup everything and get ready. But it didn't feel like 12 hours. Unless I missed a reference early on.

Eli went back when there were at least 18 hours left - during the "meeting of the elders" Young says Destiny was heading to a star roughly 18 hours ahead and Wray says that Eli had stoned to earth to discuss the math.

I like your idea about TJ - it certainly fits the character.

[antipodal]

Original Source: MGM

Stargate Universe - MGM Video Featurette: "Personal Sacrifice" - Twin Destinies

Executive producer Brad Wright discusses what it means if the crew decides to stay on Destiny.

[rushy]

1. I don't get that chair anymore. Until Sabotage, I thought that the chair was a combination of the Head-Grabber(you know, the thing that gave O'Neill knowledge) and the chair in Atlantis, but now it can make people disappear?
2.Why the hell did they have to dump Telford back to Earth(maybe cos they're starting to get rid of characters as they're approaching the end of the Mission)?
3.Why haven't the Blue Aliens reappeared(did only the 3 ships in Divergence make it to this galaxy)?

[MattSilver 3k]

1. I don't get that chair anymore. Until Sabotage, I thought that the chair was a combination of the Head-Grabber (you know, the thing that gave O'Neill knowledge) and the chair in Atlantis, but now it can make people disappear?

But when Rush interfaced with it in Human, and after what it did to Franklin, you maybe didn't think it was a little different than the Head-Grabbers? Basically, from what I get, it's sort of a neural interface thing, with the knowledge of the master code only accessible by humans and stuff - it apparently strips alien DNA according to Rush (Which may be bull****, as Pathogen shows, but for all we know it works but not on Chloe's level). I personally think it's some kind of magical thing that has its own smoke machine, and Franklin's just hiding somewhere (Or his mind was prepared by the chair the first time around, and the second time around, he was crystallised into the fog thingie and became a neural interface for the ship to use against Rush later (As well as Gloria, who's information was taken from Nick's head in the Human encounter, hence her appearing at the start of this season)).

2. Why the hell did they have to dump Telford back to Earth(maybe cos they're starting to get rid of characters as they're approaching the end of the Mission)?

Why'd they kill Ginn, Perry, Riley, Spencer and stuff? Who the hell knows? It happens. If they really wanted to sweep the ranks of people before the end of the mission, I think we would've lost the redshirts in one fell swoop.

3. Why haven't the Blue Aliens reappeared(did only the 3 ships in Divergence make it to this galaxy)?

And how, pray tell, would they be tracking them now with Chloe all de-alien-ified?

[traylormatt]

The chair always seems an anomaly to me. But so did the repository of ancient knowledge. With the repository why did they make multiple ones? Surely it would have been more practical to have made one in a hidden location that could only be accessed by humans of a certain intelligence. Similar to the tests the Asgard put in place that SG1 worked out.

We have to assume that Destiny was only ever meant to be accessed by the ancients, not by just some randomers. So the people gating on board were always designed to not actually need the knowledge of the ancients, as by the time they gated on board, that knowledge would be like their ancient history.

Perhaps the chair is a mix between things one and two. to get to Destiny you needed to have enormous power sources and know the exact address, meaning you would be plenty clever enough to get there and interface with the chair. It would tell allow that crew to continue the mission as though they were basically ancients, BOOM they can fly the ship, fix it, be all round clever cloggs.

What went wrong?

We as humans have advanced technology far beyond our natural capabilities because we have not progressed as we naturally should have due to help from technology from the Goa'uld, ancients, Asgard, other allies. So we should not be aware of all of this yet and are not evolved enough yet to be able to interface with the chair, or even make it to Destiny as we shouldn't have the power to get there of technical know how.

[Skiznot]

Another GREAT episode. Brings back to memories of what made the SG-1 & SGA successful. The CGI is AWESOME. Looks like the lighting has dramatically improved which is especially noticeable in the shuttle interior and bridge scenes.

Note To Producers: Americans have short attentions spans. Don't produce a new series with episodes that start slow, drag out or become boring. The SGU episodes is just now hitting it's stride. You took too long to kick in the gear and because of this thinking will get more great franchises like this one canceled.

I think the show hit its stride in season 1 episode 4 and never found it slow or boring. I've always found it compelling. But I think you are right about many of my fellow American TV watchers having short attention spans. If they want to do the cerebral, intelligent story telling they did on SGU I guess they would have had to find a way to make it cost less. Although I feel the show was written as a gift to long time science fiction fans like me, I'm sure they could have found a way to give it broader appeal and still keep the sense of wonder and exploration I've enjoyed about the show from the beginning.

[Skiznot]

Another crack-pot theory for fun. The Destiny crew that disappeared in the stargate were sent to earth so far back in time that they end up helping the ancient Egyptians over throw RA and bury the stargate.

[JackO'Neill]

Telford now has Tiger Blood since he is back home

[Kilgharrah]

Another crack-pot theory for fun. The Destiny crew that disappeared in the stargate were sent to earth so far back in time that they end up helping the ancient Egyptians over throw RA and bury the stargate.

Hasn't SG- 1 already done that in Moebius?
What's the point of sending them back there other than ruining everything that SG- 1 did?

[Ben 'Teal'c would WIN!!' Noble]

Awesome ep for me best of season 1 and 2 so far.

I hate the fact I still don't understand the time line usually I get the time travel ones. I think someone needs to spell out (slowly ) the time line of the ep.

[The Destiny]

Awesome ep for me best of season 1 and 2 so far.

I hate the fact I still don't understand the time line usually I get the time travel ones. I think someone needs to spell out (slowly ) the time line of the ep.

I was about to post my lengthy breakdown, but then I realised you already saw it in that other thread

[howwow]

Hi all.

One of the BEST episodes of SGU, no doubt, like most of you felt too!

With so many responses, mine is definitely going to have some similarities so bear with me!

Definitely have to watch all over again to catch those parts or details I missed!

- Star Trek Voyager did it (duplicated ship, Harry Kim and baby died…), Enterprise did it with her duplicated "generations" ship in the Xindi territory

- But somehow SGU's Twin Destinies seem darker, less hopeful… and yet the end, left us with questions… at least for me… We still don't quite get Rush… what is he up to, what is he thinking

- When they are duplicates, they won't last longer than an episode, normally, one of them has to go. What brilliant way, and what sudden abrupt way to kill off Telford, I didn't expect that

- I like the scene where the rest of the people saw the other crippled Destiny, until then, they were all in the Gateroom probably very impatient, wondering why they aren't dialling the gate yet.

- Yes, when you have a duplicated ship, you'll have spare parts. Script/Story solved… the ship will not die, and their mission can continue…

- At least this is a good way, of "once and for all", shut down the idea of dialling the gate in a star while recharging, to try and get back home. Perhaps now they can concentrate on surviving the mission, and really explore what's out there.

So this is truly really fully sad, that the show is cancelled.

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

SGU [212] Twin Destinies


18 March 2011 xxxevilgrinxxx


The wrong people in the wrong place. That was the premise when this whole thing began. Bit by bit, episode by episode, that initial belief has been chipped away as the story unfolded and everyone had a place, a part to play. Destiny was no longer simply a name but had a deeper meaning.


In and of itself, the idea of destiny isn't a bad one and if we were anything but who we are, maybe that would be enough. But people aren't content to leave everything up to some unnamed, unseen force, no matter what it gets called in the end.


The force of human choice, of free will, comes from what would probably be an unlikely source, if we hadn't seen him insist on choice, time after time. While Rush is willing to ask for volunteers, if it came down to a matter of force, I have no doubt that, as he has suggested once before, he would have people rounded up at gunpoint. No, it is through the military, through Col. Young, that the choice is given strength.


After all this time, all this adversity, to choose to stay and complete the mission, to support the others, changes the survivors into something more than simply stranded. The mission becomes theirs.


Of the choice itself, having Young be the first to stand beside Rush, after all that has happened between them, was a deeply moving act. It is quite clear that Rush was surprised and touched, first by Young's agreement to stand beside him and lend his authority when he addressed the crew and, most potently, when Young was the first to volunteer to stay, as though there were never anything else he would do. Rush acknowledges this aloud when he states in a quieter voice that Young stood by him all the way. Such an experience would have to be rare for Rush who, with his acerbic nature, has kept so many at arm's length.


There was some awkwardness when Rush addressed the crew as “my friends”, but there was no outward display of derision. No one laughed, no one snorted, and no one shouted him down, as was done on one other occasion when Rush addressed the whole crew.


In the storyline, if this choice had been made earlier, I can't imagine very many people choosing to stay. I don't think it would have been believable. This is where the strength in building these characters over all this time really pays off. With everyone that stepped forward, I knew why they chose to stay and with each person that crossed that line, I had a lump in my throat, as though their choice was mine.


In contrast to the choice to stay was Telford's opposition, which also felt completely natural. Opposition to the idea in general and to Rush in particular. This opposition would have carried a great deal of weight at one point and I believe that Telford would have had no problem at all using whatever force he could – by rank, threat or gun – to try to enforce his will, but no one seems to be giving him much heed. Greer sums it up succinctly with a “good luck with that”.


There has always been something distasteful about the way Telford has thrown his weight around and his actions in this episode cement this. Telford doesn't lead, he orders. Furthermore, even though he began the episode as trapped as any of them, I never doubted that when the going got tough, that Telford would find a way to get himself out of it, and everyone else be damned. This tendency was shown once before, when dialling within a star was first attempted. He ran and left the Destiny crew to their death and it didn't surprise me at all that Telford was the only one that managed to make it back to Earth.


There was an interesting snippet of dialogue that came between Telford and Rush in relation to both of these events: about Rush not being above sabotaging ships and that it had possibly occurred at other times. Is this where the heart of the animosity between them lies? I wonder if we will find out more about that before the end of this season or if that storyline is lost forever?


The double Rushes not only made for some great dialogue but also presented Rush with a vision of how his destiny very well could have unfolded, with himself watching from the front seat. Rush has always had issues with his anger and he has butted heads, literally and figuratively, with all sources of authority. Further, his arrogance has resulted in the deaths of people like Riley and it could be said that, in stranding them all aboard Destiny in the first place, that he is directly responsible for the deaths of everyone, whether he had a hand in it or not.


The difference with the death of Telford is that it comes directly at Rush's hands, and that it wasn't something Rush was able to control. Despite the anger between the two men, it is clear that Rush didn't want to kill him. Rush is a man of reason with a terrible problem, one that unfolded right before him, a vision of himself, of what he could be. It would be very easy to explain away as something the “other” Rush did but there is no way that Rush will believe that and knowing that he has the capability to kill people will hopefully change his character for the better.


There is one other character – or perhaps a character trait – that has been changed for the better and that is found in Eli's simple guilt about the effects wrought by his creations. This is rare in a genre which has generally been very easy on the sometimes cataclysmic aftereffects of great scientists. Whole worlds, whole people, have been wiped out with scarcely a nod to the ideas that birthed the act so it is really something to see Eli take responsibility for the alternate destiny and inevitable death that could have ensued.


In thinking of twin destinies, I can't help but think of the initial lottery, back in season one. Like the lottery, there are two preselected to go, this time: Rush and Young, who had excluded themselves from the first lottery. Here they are first to stay. There is a set number they are reaching for (although they would happily take more). About to go into the star to their certain deaths, they are assembled once again in the gate room, being addressed from the stairs. But in this lottery, rather than being chosen to leave, they are choosing to stay.


Dark humour continues to develop among the crew, especially between Brody and Volker, although the two Rushes have quite a few witty lines of dialogue. The hands on, amateur nature of the repairs comes off as completely real and I'm pleased that they haven't mastered the technology, although they have managed to make do. Using the second ship for salvage was brilliant and comes across as more believable than coming across a magic crate of parts or some font of knowledge aboard Destiny that would make everything happen easily. This has been a very human effort, all the way. No technobabble, no aliens. Just us.


Lastly, a word on the lighting during this episode. The Destiny set is easily the most beautiful set I have ever seen for this type of show. It has a depth and texture that doesn't simply present a setting but provides an atmosphere. The lighting during the “sun” sequences only increases this air, raising the visual experience to the level of exquisite. The lighting upon the cast and the set is the same, making the actors a part of the Destiny, instead of simply people standing before set pieces. It isn't simply a backdrop. It is this beautiful light that has me place “Twin Destinies” alongside “Darkness” and “Light” as a favourite episode, pulling in a very easy 10/10.


Rating: 10/10

[Gatefan1976]

Hey EG
I think you posted the above in the wrong folder

[xxxevilgrinxxx]

Nope, I post it in the Review thread and also in this thread, because people can't respond in the review thread, or did you mean something else? *scratches head*

[howwow]

A very long post, but I enjoyed your writing.

I very much agree with the last part. From the very 1st episode, I immediately notice SGU/Destiny has a very different set and lighting designs from the other SG series. It is darker, the layers and texture richer. I always love how a bright star would shine that yellowish light into the crew quarters… very detail and intrigue designs wherever you go, from the doors to the corridor, and the gateroom.

And even the exterior of the ship, as more episodes pass, we see more angles and views of Destiny, appreciating the design, size of the ship.

I am liking the ship more and more.

I also love the particular scene in 'Resurgence" when Destiny was under attack, and Telford and the seed ship came to the rescue at an angle, and ask Destiny to follow them into a star… that scene was very very beautiful.

Why oh why again, would SyFy, cancel such a good show? *scratches head* It is a very very sad thing that some exec sitting in his or her chair somewhere out there, and all they worried about was advertising dollar, ratings etc, same goes to their bosses.

Some shows are still on the air, and I doubt they have very good ratings either, and I wonder why SGU was a victim…

[The Destiny]

SGU is expensive.

The thing I cannot fathom is why it doesn't have more viewers than it does. And least of all I do not understand why ratings dropped after deliverance! Probably because the show was cancelled.. that's a big buzzkill...