FTL vs HYderdrive

[oniel193]

I do not know the differnce between the FTL drive and a Hyperdrive

It sounds like Hyperdirve is better. but im not sure.

[themeatcleaver]

welp, here's the nuts and bolts of it:

FTL: Faster than light travel. It's in our own space time, just ridiculously fast travel. Destiny and the Galactica use FTL technology.

Hyperdrive: Ridiculously fast travel but through section of subspace(almost like a wormhole) rather than in our own space-time. Daedalus, Odyssey, all Asgard, and most Goa'uld vessels use this technology for faster than light travel.

The easiest way to tell which type is being used, especially in Stargate, is if there is a hyperspace window opened when they begin travel.

As an example, when the Daedalus jumps into hyperspace in SGA there is a green blob that forms in front of it that the ship flies into and disappears. This is the hyperdrive being used.

Destiny, on the other hand, does no such thing. When it's FTL is engaged the ship just starts flying ridiculously fast. Destiny's FTL graphics are actually beams of light washing over the hull. Also, if you look into the background you can see stars moving by in the distance very slowly.

Realistically, Hyperdrive should usually be the faster of the two. There are no obstacles in the way to avoid such as planets and meteors, etc. Destiny's computer has to detect and plot a course around such things where as Daedalus does not have to do such a thing. Hyperdrive is generally much more advanced and can be pushed further with more power, such as if you engage a ZPM with it.

Destiny may be the exception to the rule of Hyperdrive being faster however, since it uses something like 16 FTL drives working in sync to achieve the speeds that it does.

Enjoy!

[Archaeis]

I've always considered the FTL that Destiny uses to essentially be the same as the Warp technology in Star Trek or the more realistically conceived Alcubierre Drive, where an energy field surrounds the object, compressing space-time in front of the vessel and expanding it behind it. This propels it more quickly through the compressed space-time.

The seems to be a more basic form of the technology, since it was used in earlier craft than the Alterans used later in their existence. Since it modifies existing space-time, rather than opening a gateway to another level of reality, as Stargate's hyperspace technology does.

[garhkal]

DO we know which the altera used when they left the ori home galaxy?? FTL or hyperdrives?

[traylormatt]

I do not believe that we KNOW what technology they used. Only that they came upon the MW after some time. This could be to say they knew where the MW was and it just took time to get here, or it could mean that they explored other galaxies before eventually finding MW and keeping it as their home galaxy.

Perhaps the sensors for detecting planets, other gates that have been built on Destiny's course or any other things it may wish to factor in, coupld possibly not work in Hyperdrive? Similar to how ships can't be tracked in hyperdrive? So by using FTL they are able to detect what they need to on Destiny's mission???

[Greenfire32]

welp, here's the nuts and bolts of it:

FTL: Faster than light travel. It's in our own space time, just ridiculously fast travel. Destiny and the Galactica use FTL technology.

Hyperdrive: Ridiculously fast travel but through section of subspace(almost like a wormhole) rather than in our own space-time. Daedalus, Odyssey, all Asgard, and most Goa'uld vessels use this technology for faster than light travel.

The easiest way to tell which type is being used, especially in Stargate, is if there is a hyperspace window opened when they begin travel.

As an example, when the Daedalus jumps into hyperspace in SGA there is a green blob that forms in front of it that the ship flies into and disappears. This is the hyperdrive being used.

Destiny, on the other hand, does no such thing. When it's FTL is engaged the ship just starts flying ridiculously fast. Destiny's FTL graphics are actually beams of light washing over the hull. Also, if you look into the background you can see stars moving by in the distance very slowly.

Realistically, Hyperdrive should usually be the faster of the two. There are no obstacles in the way to avoid such as planets and meteors, etc. Destiny's computer has to detect and plot a course around such things where as Daedalus does not have to do such a thing. Hyperdrive is generally much more advanced and can be pushed further with more power, such as if you engage a ZPM with it.

Destiny may be the exception to the rule of Hyperdrive being faster however, since it uses something like 16 FTL drives working in sync to achieve the speeds that it does.

Enjoy!

Almost. The computer does have to calculate enter/exit points. You wouldn't want to come out of hyperspace in the middle of a planet.

On a related note: Hyperdrives, being outside of our space-time, allow for entire ships to pass through objects such as the planet in SGA. Destiny couldn't do that because she travels in FTL, which is in our space-time, and would have smashed into the planet.

[oniel193]

ok i get it now btw i think the ancients used FTL to get to the MW from Ori

[Quadhelix]

Realistically, Hyperdrive should usually be the faster of the two. There are no obstacles in the way to avoid such as planets and meteors, etc. Destiny's computer has to detect and plot a course around such things where as Daedalus does not have to do such a thing. Hyperdrive is generally much more advanced and can be pushed further with more power, such as if you engage a ZPM with it.

I feel it necessary to point out that Gou'uld ships take decades to travel between galaxies (re "Enemies") and that at least some Wraith War-era Ancient warships were equipped with similarly slow hyperdrives (re: Aurora).

Destiny, on the other hand, was able to travel between two galaxies in roughly a month or two.

Destiny may be the exception to the rule of Hyperdrive being faster however, since it uses something like 16 FTL drives working in sync to achieve the speeds that it does.

We have no idea how the speed of a ship correlates to the number of FTL drives that it has.

For all we know, ships of a certain size need a certain number of FTL drives in order to enter FTL, and any number above that is just extra.

[General Jumper One]

I feel it necessary to point out that Gou'uld ships take decades to travel between galaxies (re "Enemies") and that at least some Wraith War-era Ancient warships were equipped with similarly slow hyperdrives (re: Aurora).

In "Enemies" they were blown several galaxies away not just one so, yes it would take them a long time, the Aurora's hyperdrive was damaged so they modified their ship to go as close to the speed of light running on normal engines as they could.

[Quadhelix]

In "Enemies" they were blown several galaxies away not just one so, yes it would take them a long time

A galaxy is not a unit of distance. The galaxy in "Enemies" was roughly 4 million light-years away, and it would take over 120 years to get back to the Milky Way (both of these facts were stated at the end of "Exodus"). That is, on average, 30 years to travel 1 million light-years.

In "Sabotage," a range boost of 5% was able to overcome a 50 thousand light-year shortfall. This puts the distance at 1 million light-years or more.

In other words, Destiny was able travel in a few months a distance that would take a Goa'uld mothership at least 30 years.

the Aurora's hyperdrive was damaged so they modified their ship to go as close to the speed of light running on normal engines as they could.

You are thinking of the Tria from "The Return," not the Aurora from "Aurora."

[General Jumper One]

You are thinking of the Tria from "The Return," not the Aurora from "Aurora."

Aren't they both the same class of ship?

[Quadhelix]

Aren't they both the same class of ship?

Yes, but the Tria was the only one that was being modified to travel quickly without its hyperdrive. The Aurora's crew thought that their hyperdrive was working just fine, but it was - as I have said - a slow hyperdrive and thus needed to be upgraded if their were to get anywhere quickly.


From "Aurora":

He's trying to modify the hyperdrives in order to get back to Atlantis faster...

The Aurora is a fine ship, but she was never built for speed. Without the drive modifications, it'll take months to return to Atlantis. If we are to use this new intelligence to our advantage, we need to reach the city within days.

Well, according to the Atlantis database, there are two different types of Ancient hyperdrive: there's the more basic interstellar kind, like the one the Aurora has; and then there's the more powerful intergalactic kind, similar to the one the Asgard provided us for the Daedalus.

[Greenfire32]

I feel it necessary to point out that Gou'uld ships take decades to travel between galaxies (re "Enemies") and that at least some Wraith War-era Ancient warships were equipped with similarly slow hyperdrives (re: Aurora).

Destiny, on the other hand, was able to travel between two galaxies in roughly a month or two.

The feeling I'm getting from this is you're thinking the Destiny should be slower than the Gou'ld ships. If I'm wrong, ignore this post.
But then you quoted this:

Well, according to the Atlantis database, there are two different types of Ancient hyperdrive: there's the more basic interstellar kind, like the one the Aurora has; and then there's the more powerful intergalactic kind, similar to the one the Asgard provided us for the Daedalus.

I'm pretty sure the Destiny's FTL drive is just a precursor of the Intergalactic drive. It could even be the intergalactic drive for all we know.

[Quadhelix]

The feeling I'm getting from this is you're thinking the Destiny should be slower than the Gou'ld ships.

Actually, I'm arguing against the idea that Destiny's FTL is less advanced than hyperdrives: Goa'uld hyperdrives, and even some later Ancient hyperdrives, are slower than Destiny's system of FTL.

Of course, I might be falling prey to the bias that a more advanced drive should be faster - although, if it isn't faster, than I have to ask how it is more advanced.

I'm pretty sure the Destiny's FTL drive is just a precursor of the Intergalactic drive.

That wouldn't surprise me at all.

[Nth Chevron]

I think the best way to compare the two is to look at Destiny's FTL drive as the ABSOLUTE best Diesel car that we could make today compared to the PURE electric cars that are on the market.

The diesel car has been used continuously for longer and so we have almost perfected what we can achieve from it, whereas, the pure electric cars cannot match the speed or operational range of the diesel (both running on 1 tank of diesel and 1 full charge of electricity)

Ancients had most likely been using FTL (guesstimate) for a long enough time for them to be able to build Destiny with the speed and efficiency she has over long distances, where as the Goa'uld BASICALLY understood hyperdrive technology hence their slow speed.

Its kind of like comparing old but perfected technology to a brand new discovery which COULD be better than the old but it will take time to get there.

N.C

[Quadhelix]

Ancients had most likely been using FTL (guesstimate) for a long enough time for them to be able to build Destiny with the speed and efficiency she has over long distances, where as the Goa'uld BASICALLY understood hyperdrive technology hence their slow speed.

If hyperdrives are primitive enough for the Goa'uld to build them - and for Earth to reverse engineer them (re: "Redemption") - then they can't be that much more advanced than Destiny's FTL.

[Nth Chevron]

True, but compare a basic Goa'uld hyperdive to what the replicators did to Cronus' Ha'tak (5x01) turned a 130 year trip in hyperspace into a journey that would take a few hours.

The Goa'uld understood the BASIC design and implementation of a hyperdrive, much like us now with electric cars, but they are nowhere near as efficient and powerful as we were shown the Asgard and Ancient variations and designs were.

The same thing would apply if Destiny was the first time we saw hyperspace, and all FTL travel during the 15 years if SG-1 and SGA was undertaken in Destiny style FTL.

All i am saying is that almost perfected FTL tech is superior to base model hyperdrives in both speed and efficiency.

Maybe the Goa'uld DID know of FTL tech but opted for hyperdrives instead due to the inherent dangers of FTL if you run into something at a high velocity. I just see hyperspace as a bit more technical, a little bit safer and depending on the design, faster or slower.

N.C

[Vancho]

travel. Destiny and the Galactica use FTL technology.

I think destiny and Galactica use entirely different drives

Galactica uses somethink similar to a wormhole drive

As for destiny, i think the ship uses some sort of gravity field or dark energy manipulation to deflect the matter or cut through it, this way the ship avoid the effects of relativity, technically i don't think the ship travels faster then light inside the "bubble"

or maybe the deflection field makes the ship's mass equal to zero and this allows the ship to push faster then light without increasing its mass or requiring insane amount of energy

[Quadhelix]

True, but compare a basic Goa'uld hyperdive to what the replicators did to Cronus' Ha'tak (5x01) turned a 130 year trip in hyperspace into a journey that would take a few hours.

I'm not saying that hyperdrives can't be fast. What I am staying is that they are almost certainly not that much more complicated a technology than Destiny-style FTL.

All i am saying is that almost perfected FTL tech is superior to base model hyperdrives in both speed and efficiency.

You are actually saying a bit more than that: "I think the best way to compare the two is to look at Destiny's FTL drive as the ABSOLUTE best Diesel car that we could make today compared to the PURE electric cars that are on the market...Its kind of like comparing old but perfected technology to a brand new discovery which COULD be better than the old but it will take time to get there." (here). This assumes too much.

I mean, for all we know, Destiny was the only Ancient ship ever to use its type of FTL. For example, if Destiny-style FTL is inherently faster than hyperdrives but also inherently riskier, that might explain why they used it on Destiny, which had to travel long distances, but would be watching were it was going anyway. For more normal, everyday travel, hyperdrives (which, in this scenario, are a more primitive technology) would be much slower, but also much easier to use.

In the scenario described above Destiny's FTL would be like a Gallium Arsenide computer, while hyperdrives would be like Silicon computers. Gallium Arsenide will always have better performance than Silicon, but Silicon is far cheaper and easier to work with.

I just see hyperspace as a bit more technical, a little bit safer and depending on the design, faster or slower.

I will agree about hyperdrives being safer, but how are hyperdrives "more technical"?

After all, we know that hyperdrives are "primitive" enough for modern Earth to duplicate fairly easily (re: "Redemption"). Indeed, the main problem that Earth had with hyperdrives was power consumption, not the device itself. This means that the technology cannot be too complex.

[Nth Chevron]

After all, we know that hyperdrives are "primitive" enough for modern Earth to duplicate fairly easily (re: "Redemption"). Indeed, the main problem that Earth had with hyperdrives was power consumption, not the device itself. This means that the technology cannot be too complex.

How long would it have taken us to discover hyperspace and then figure out a way to construct a drive, capable of ripping a hole into the subspace dimension, keeping a corridor of subspace stable enough to exist in, let alone travel at FTL speeds with only having to worry about intense gravity waves messing with the engine.

IF we hadnt been able to study Goa'uld designs for about 3 years prior to the Prometheus (Tel'tak/Ha'tak) and then again, being given Asgard assistance during its implementation and installation aboard the Prometheus and again having an Asgard watch over our shoulders during intergalactic hyperdrive runs (Hermiod on the Deadalous) and even then acquiring all the Asgard knowledge base at he end of that period of development, i dont think we would have any ships whatsoever.

IMO, if we hadnt had the Asgard training us to be able to operate on a galactic scale i am sure we would have 1, maybe 2 captured Ha'taks for Earth defense, but definitely, no Daedalous class ships, no Prometheus and definitely no ships capable of making it to Pegasus in 3 weeks as opposed to probably 10 or so years it would have taken Ha'taks.


As for the Destiny FTL question, as i have said in another thread, i thought that some part of the Destiny mission was kept tech-low for a purpose, like the Stargates being limited in range and Destiny's FTL vs Hyperdrive question. I stick by my original thought that the Ancients didnt want to send their most advanced tech into the unknown universe where god knows what lurked and could potentially backwards engineer they're own versions and make war upon the Alterans.

This was maybe before they're overconfidence in their technology kicked in and they still had some Earth paranoia in them.

N.C