'Malice' (208) General Discussion

[rcpadrick]

I know this is going to be unpopular, but this was -- in my opinion -- a simply terrible episode. The action wasn't sustained, the strategies were predictable, and the dialogue was flacid.

And now that we're an episode past this one, are they ever going to explore Eli's reaction and coping with Ginn's death? I mean, it seemed like he genuinely cared for her, and not one mention of it has bee made.

Maybe it's me, but these last couple episodes (Malice and Visitation) have been awful.

[Linda06]

Poor Ginn and Amanda, poor Eli and Rush, poor TJ, poor everyone...DAMN YOU SIMEON. I hope he rots in hell for this. He kills two good people with one cowardice act, not to mention those good soldiers who were just going about their business. That SOB deserved everything that was coming to him.

Seems a waste though killing not one but two interesting women, we don't really have any interesting women, maybe TJ but that's really about it. Most of the women don't really get all that much screentime, that's one of the things I'm a little disappointed at but it doesn't bother me as much as it did in SGA, because I think the other characters are really quite complex and interesting. I was hoping Ginn would at least stick around for a while, I was beginning to like her. even though we didn't get to see much of her

Overall though this was a very good episode.

And I don't blame Rush one bit for what he done in the end. Simeon was very dangerous, he had to be dealt with, It's just a damn pity they didn't deal with him sooner, all this might have been avoidable.

[Matt G]

1. Woah, an old-school Stargate style ep!

2. Woah, Rush showing emotion? In this reality? Can't blame him for wanting to kill Simeon really.

3. Was it the right thing to do in terms of the bigger picture though? Hell no. In a lot of ways killing Simeon made Rush look like Young after(ironically) stranding Rush in Justice. The morality of the action was murky but what made it stand out was the stupidity. One flaw I would have never pinned on Rush is stupidity.

4. Eli...careful you don't lose the plot mate!

5. If Chloe/the Blue presence in Chloe stays benign I'll be very surprised!

Very nice ep though! Best of the season so far!

[Darkside_Six]

The SGC really needs to be introduced to the concept of body armour.

[garhkal]

We should have lots of Kull warrior's armors out there..

[GateGhost]

I jumped when I watched this episode.

[polomare]

My Opinion: Best ep of Season 2, hands down. Might even be the best or second best of the entire series to date.
Most of what I like about the ep has already been said, so I won't repeat, but what I haven't seen is anyone commenting on the music. I think it was pure poetry and whoever scored this ep should get an award.

*thumbs up* for the animal justice at the end!
Oh, and when Rush is standing over Simeon and he lamely tries to buy his life by saying "I have information" and Rush raises his gun, I could just see him thinking: "And I have a gun." Bam! Take that dirtbag! MUHA! Loved that part.

It's the only ep to date that I have watched 3 times in a row.

[garhkal]

I was hoping we heard rush say "And..." bang.

[polomare]

I was hoping we heard rush say "And..." bang.

Hahaha! Yeah . . . .

[Jumper_One]

Shawna Buchanan writes: “Can you explain why Simeon was allowed to just wander around the ship menacing people in a clearly villainous way with only one guy guarding him when everyone else who they had even the least cause to suspect of potentially doing something bad was kept under lock and key?”

Answer: All of the Lucian Alliance members were kept under lock and key until they (seemingly) started cooperating with Homeworld Command at which point they were permitted limited freedom under escort.

http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/...arjorie-m-liu/

[maneth]

Cool ep. Loved the music in this one, and yeah, Simeon deserved what he got. All I'm worried now is the effect on Rush, who isn't the most stable personality in the Universe anyway. I'm really hoping they'll explore the effects of Ginn's death on Eli in this show. And I second the worry about them killing off the two interesting women in the show in one ep...

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

Funny how this episode follows "The Greater Good"; mainly because it's boringly bad. To be honest I've never been a huge fan of these "hunt episodes with long drawn out scenes." Atlantis's "The Defiant One" was one of those episodes and it was in a series that contained the old SG format; it may seem interesting to see these people try to outwit each other and the subtle character interactions that may come of it but honestly, I couldn't see it whether it was John Sheppard and Rodney McKay or Ronald Greer, Matthew Scott and Nicholas Rush.

Much of this episode is about hunting the worst character of SGU "Simeone" who has the darkest shade of grey and has no character appeal nor potential and man does that character suck. People may say that his performance is the equivalent of a horror movie, completely creepy and psychologically scary but I wasn't convinced when he got close to characters like TJ and basically said menacing things that equated to a Z-grade horror movie; while they make attempts to make him likeable such as having him plant a bomb on the back of someone and giving him military skills, he's still unlikable and any potential at exploring the dedicated nature of him is wasted. Take for instance this line.

"I understand revenge. Your people have killed enough of mine; people I cared about. I let you live. You know why? I wanted you to live with it the way I have. I wanted the pain to eat you alive. I know it's a fate worse than death. I let you live, but next time I won't. You want your revenge? You come and get it, Rush. I'm gonna put you out of your misery. Come and get me.

The bolded part was potential in that it could of explored what happened to him in the LA, the pain he feels for his companions, his devotion to serve the cause mainly because they're his overlords and what he perceives to be the threat from Earth; his desire to see the people from Earth who he perceives to be his enemies feel his pain but the italic, underlined part is just generic redundancy that destroys any potential that he has. The way he declares that proclamation with the most sinister of voices and the most obvious of emphasis just made me dislike him even more; you're not making yourself out to be a adversary if you do that, you're just making yourself out to be a generic bad guy who has a sinister laugh and everything.

Rush is obviously the focus of this episode and he provides many of the best parts. Him hitting on a wall, him crying and breaking down over the death of Dr. Amanda Perry (RIP) and that provides one of the few bright spots of the episode, dealing with the pain of death. There's just sort of a fire that builds up inside you, one of compassion and one of vengance and Rush and Eli manage to show that well. They're two different people, one is uncertain on how to handle his emotions and is somehow convinced that he needs to go out into the desert and kill Simeone against his strong better judgement and Rush is just somehow calculated in his efforts to kill Simeone, he shows no remorse nor regret; just bitter anger. The contrast between them prove an effective study through the personalities and the way they deal with things; what Eli does may be what a similar person would do, he's just lost and confused by the anger building up inside him and Rush is a person who is surrounded by anger, who is able to utilize logic in order to withhold his emotions, it's disturbing to see Rush do these things but at the same time it's compelling to see Eli's newfound experience with emotion.

However, Rush cannot save the episode even as he provides his trademark sinsisterness with Scott and Greer and even as Scott and Greer attempt to restrain Rush and prevent him from going commando. I have to admire Greer for at least holding it down, it is episodes like this which properly utilize the military side of him but Scott... Scott is unconvincing as a leader yelling out orders, facing off with Rush and just shooting stuff I guess. He isn't in the way alot that he ruins the episode but he doesn't do anything to help the believability aspect of it and in fact, manages to bring down his character. Oddly enough, both seem to be utilizing every trick in the book in order to lengthen the confrontation, while it was somewhat clever the first time; it just becomes annoying when they claim that they don't have a clear shot when you know that they could shoot him and incapacitate him without any effort. It's like in "First Contact" where they could of thrown a grenade and saved the two easily.

Obtusely the best part of the episode has to be where Simeone dies which manages to be both chuckleworthy with it's usage of animals to trample Simeone and harsh with Rush's cold blooded murder of him; this moment is supposed to be a snapshot into the twisted mindstate of Rush, that he would let the chance of saving Earth slip from his hands just to avenge a lover (by the way, the whole thing is forced, it just seemed like such an easy way to give purpose and to make things interesting.) but it's the opposite of that; I celebrated as he met his demise, proud that we would never have to see him again. That shouldn't happen in an episode like this, I should feel stunned and morally terrified but instead, I'm not. It's also reflective of the importance of making characters like Simeone compelling, he was the first person with the potential of being an adversary with his subtle hints but instead he ended up a generic bad guy and the attempts to make the death have weight by saying "You killed the only chance we had to save Earth, he could of had the information." didn't work. I'm supposed to care that Earth is now under danger to an imminent attack but I'm not; I oddly don't care. Which shouldn't happen at all frankly. He may have had info sure but he also admitted that he was lying and there was zero chance he would of broken any information to the guys on Earth.

Surprisingly, Rush's character moment would prove to be somewhat inconsequential later on in the season.

[NowIWillDestroyAbydos]

Wow, another good episode.

A little more (a tiny bit) about Destiny's mission.

Rush was kind of a badass, having those animals trample Simeon to nearly death. And in that state, Simeon was ready to reveal what he knew, but nope, Rush shot him.

Tomorrow, remember those people we left on that plant, well they're back.

[Zombies Rise from the Sea]

Rush was kind of a badass, having those animals trample Simeon to nearly death. And in that state, Simeon was ready to reveal what he knew, but nope, Rush shot him.

The animals I agree with; but I disagree that Simeone was going to reveal anything. To me it felt like a last ditch attempt at life; "I have information, you have to keep me alive, the guilt that you killed a guy who knew about the Earth attack will be too great for you to handle is just too much for you to bear if you do it. You care about Earth right?"

He was basically loyal to the end, basically utilizing this environment for a cat and mouse game where he hoped he would kill Rush and powerless when he was finally cornered, using a futile last ditch attempt to preserve his life.

Beside, he killed Rush and Eli's loves with one swoop; do you think he would care much about what happened to both of them much less a turning of the cheek of his own life?

[Matt G]

Midweek, another ep of SGU...

1. Forgot about the hostage taking.

2. And exactly much much of a git Eli was at times.

3. I guess it's not implausible that "almighty God" is responsible for this pattern.

4. Credit to Simeon for being a sly git.

5. Again, stupid from Rush.

Good ep.

[Krisz]

The events of this episode would never have happened if Simeon's guard didn't just follow him around and not react in any way at all when he did something! Simeon's escape was inevitable given this totally unbelievable action on the part of those supposedly guarding a skilled soldier, whose mission was to kill them and take over the ship in the first place.

Then expending the energy to go after him in the faint hope that he'd actually tell them about what he knew about the planned attack on Earth was just a waste to me.

Watching vengeful Rush was entertaining though, loved the moment of military planning with the use of a herd of animals to kill his quarry, and finding out that one Kino remote could track another. The explosive trap that caught James and the others was spectacularly done. I asked Julia Benson about what it was like to film that and she said it was pretty scary and close, got hit by a few stones! I did like the great use of location to add to the whole feel of the episode. Those eroded rock formations certainly added an alien planet feel to it.

It's just funny in a creepy way how Chloe just blanks out and immediately starts doing something to the ship's computer when she's allowed near anything that is a control panel.

[garhkal]

Makes you wonder how much control the "Blues have over her".

[Lieutenant Sparrow]

Okay ep.

And now I remember why Simeon didn't have an escort.

Really gotta feel for Eli. And Rush a little. Eli finally gets a girlfriend on the ship (first girlfriend?) and she's already taken from him. And Rush's scream of anger as he walks down the hall sent chills down my spine.

Some more soldiers of ours dead. They must all be wearing red shirts underneath.

Rush's hero moment as he removes the bomb.

Simeon really had our guys on the ropes. Much more well trained than our guys it seems.

Rush getting the animals to stampede and kill Simeon was cool and cunning.

[jelgate]

I tell you its karma. Yes it was an accident and no conspired to kill Ginn/Perry except maybe Simeon. But given how Rush was responsible for so many people on Destiny it almost seems like karma that his actions of hiding the bridge has the consquences of killing the person that Rush loves the most. This also has the advantage of Rush going on a one man vendetta. It was interesting to see him go nuts. He is usally a cold calculating person who rarely gives into emotions like that. You see Rush planning things it was different to see Rush go mad in chasing Simeon It was crazy wathcing Rush and Simeon have a battle of wits. The guy was not an idiot. That is what made SGU great. The villians were so more multi-dimensional compared to the previous shows. We see why Simeon does what he did instead of the generic opposing the protanganists. I could criticize Rush of letting a potential source of information die like that but I have wonder if Simeon would reval such information. The B plot of Eli wanting to follow Rush was just stupid. It seemed foolish for Eli to think he could do anthing. I understand grieving of Ginn but to do anything against to avenge was foolish. Finally I liked how even after finding the bridge the crew still doesn't know everything. We still can't around the countdown clock or course plotting without an alien infected Chloe. That type of mystery of Destiny and the unknown was great compared to how we knew everything about the mundane Atlantis

[garhkal]

Well, they just DID get access to it.. Rush is the only one who up till then had any experience operating the bridge controls.