About the cancellation...

[Skydiver]

Smacks the thread with the OT clue by four

Take the fanfic talk to the fanfic folder please

[Saquist]

Atlantis had some dips but they also had some amazing eps and seasons. I see SGA as a missed opportunity to really go out with a bang. So that is why letting SGA go was so tough. I really hope this movie happens.

BTW, I just watched the Kindred pt 1 & 2 , The Last man, and Search and Rescue this weekend. I mean the story arc was interesting and kept me interested in the show enough to be able to watch these eps countless times. I loved those eps for the strong character bonds, and the great story to be told. The Last man to me was brilliant.

I do agree about the characters, they were one of the strongest parts of SGA, but some plot was really good. I just think it is very hard to keep a show consistant espcially when it run 5 or more seasons. Heck even Farscape had a few drought slumps.

I"m not as sour as some about the shows cancellation. At least they didn't get a chance to run it into the ground. I think it went out on a fairly strong note. I think they missed on 2 seasons...and I mean a whole 2 season but the others made up for it. It was a beautiful show with beautiful people...good people and I learn to like Todd the Wraith...

Lots of fond memories. These people were like weekly friends. Instead of tuning in to find out gossip like other shows it was like tuning in to visit a distance friend.

[Briangate78]

I"m not as sour as some about the shows cancellation. At least they didn't get a chance to run it into the ground. I think it went out on a fairly strong note. I think they missed on 2 seasons...and I mean a whole 2 season but the others made up for it. It was a beautiful show with beautiful people...good people and I learn to like Todd the Wraith...

Lots of fond memories. These people were like weekly friends. Instead of tuning in to find out gossip like other shows it was like tuning in to visit a distance friend.

...and I agree, just wish people can talk more about the good instead of the bad. There was certainly more good then bad with SGA. I think what is really driving me crazy is SGU's performance. SGA was doing much better, and it was a 5 year old show, maybe it was not time for a change just yet. I read some of Joe M's story ideas for Season 6 and really saw lost opportunities that could of happened if the show was renewed. Tis a shame. I have gotten into the other show and like it very much, but now I am sad this could be the last season.

[maxbo]

I agree that there was more good about SGA than bad and I appreciate the good things that SGA's writers & creators gave us: a great cast, interesting characters and the foundation of an intriguing storyline. Unfortunately, the good has been tainted by the bad because I don't think SGA's writers ever fully appreciated what they had in SGA. Because of this, I blame them for SGA's cancellation.

IMO, if SGA had been in the hands of writers who were excited about the show and wanted to see it grow, then I believe that the ratings could have been even better than the respectable ratings SGA ended with. And, with higher ratings, there's no way that MGM and Syfy would have chanced canceling it for the unknown.

In my perfect little world, new, talented writers would have been brought on board before the old guard writers could start recycling SG-1 storylines for SGA and before they became so attached to Rodney that almost every episode had to be Rodney-heavy. Yes, I love the character, but I also love the other, much less used, characters.

I look at the great ratings that Eureka has been getting in its 4th season and believe that SGA's ratings could have been just as good if only the writing pool had been overhauled. I don't blame any of the Stargate writers for wanting to try something new and I never did, however, I do blame them for taking SGA for granted because by doing so they made SGA vulnerable to cancellation. And, worse than that, they ended SGA in such a disappointing way that I doubt that I will ever watch Season 5 straight through.

If Stargate's writers had been thinking ahead, they would have made sure that SGA got the best send off possible because that way, even if SGA fans were disappointed by the show's cancellation, we would have enough fond memories of what a great job TPTB did with the show that people like me wouldn't be wishing for new writers for anything SGA-related in the future.

[Ekras]

They should have left SGA running for 1 more season, so S1 of SGU could have been on right before/after. That would have helped many fans transition more smoothly.

[Briangate78]

@Maxbo



I agree, S5 started off strong but had 3 or 4 eps that were just below par in the end. That is waaaaaaaay too many for a final season......heck final season half. Look at S4, there was only one episode I thought was below par, heck I even thought "Harmony" was good, that final scene with the picture is worth sitting through the entire episode.

Look how Season 4 ended.... Midway, Kindred pt 1, Kindred Part 2, The Last man.... that is how you end a season!!!

[jmoz]

I thought season 4 towards the end and the middle was excellent. And I was totally shocked that they were canceling in the fifth season because I had no idea. Season 5 was excellent. Lots of episodes stand out, especially Daedelus Variations, The Shrine, and a few others. I did like the lost tribe stuff because I was thinking they were bringing the asgard back somehow, some small hope.

[Briangate78]

I thought season 4 towards the end and the middle was excellent. And I was totally shocked that they were canceling in the fifth season because I had no idea. Season 5 was excellent. Lots of episodes stand out, especially Daedelus Variations, The Shrine, and a few others. I did like the lost tribe stuff because I was thinking they were bringing the asgard back somehow, some small hope.

Oh yeah! Season 5 had excellent mid-season eps, I loved "The Prodigal", and even really loved "Vegas". I was just hoping EATG was a 2 parter and Vegas was episode "518" and Identity did not even make the cut, lol.

The Asgard are my favorite aliens, to bring them back like that was gutsy, but it worked. There is one lost potential story-line.

[jelgate]

Oh yeah! Season 5 had excellent mid-season eps, I loved "The Prodigal", and even really loved "Vegas". I was just hoping EATG was a 2 parter and Vegas was episode "518" and Identity did not even make the cut, lol.

The Asgard are my favorite aliens, to bring them back like that was gutsy, but it worked. There is one lost potential story-line.

I say cut Identity and Vegas. They're both garbage. You could make EATG a two parter with the episode before EATG to wrap up small plot threads since EATG would of been the series finale.

[jmoz]

I don't know how making EATG into two episodes would have concluded the series especially with all the things left in the open like the Asgard, and the possibility of the existence of the Daedelus variations aliens, and so many others like the Genii stuff and other potential alien races. To me, EATG seemed mostly like superhive vs Atlantis. Nothing that really resolves too many plot arcs.

I really liked Tracker too minus Keller. Just that device thing was awesome. It would have been awesome to explore where that device came from. I don't remember but was it of ancient origin? Identity was bleh. Just because you put a hot chick into the fray doesn't make the story better. I really hated the traveller's chick. Was ridiculous. Oooh, I'm a hot chick, but I'm a strong female character so lemme torture you with no consequences. Not once...twice.

[carmencatalina]

I say cut Identity and Vegas. They're both garbage.

Oh, why no love for Vegas? I know it totally went off track (of the main story line, hello, AU), but it was a cool episode, we got a lovely nasty rock-n-roll Wraith, Sheppard in any reality is apparently a cool dude, Rodney in a suit, and the ending tied it all back together again. AU (time travel, alternative dimensions, etc.) give us some of great weird fun of science fiction - I think Vegas was a good example of that.

Or maybe I just really liked that Wraith . . .

[maxbo]

@Maxbo

I agree, S5 started off strong but had 3 or 4 eps that were just below par in the end. That is waaaaaaaay too many for a final season......heck final season half. Look at S4, there was only one episode I thought was below par, heck I even thought "Harmony" was good, that final scene with the picture is worth sitting through the entire episode.

Look how Season 4 ended.... Midway, Kindred pt 1, Kindred Part 2, The Last man.... that is how you end a season!!!

Yeah, I agree that Season 5 had a strong start. I enjoyed Search & Rescue so much that I felt very positive about the rest of the season. And, despite my initial misgivings, I also loved Season 4. I loved the way they split the season in two by concentrating on the Asurans in the 1st half and then Michael and the Wraith in the 2nd half. I also loved the way they handled Carson and Elizabeth's last scenes because those scenes gave me hope that we would see a lot of those characters in Season 5.

So, I really thought that the writers were going to do even better in Season 5, which is why it was especially disappointing to see the train wreck that Season 5 became. Yes, there were several episodes that I enjoyed, but overall Season 5 was a disjointed mess because there were too many dull, pointless episodes that could have been better used to build up to the finale. Even if the writers were certain of a Season 6, there is no excuse for how bad Season 5 was. Savvy writers know that they had better write a kickass current season if they want their audience to return the following season.

Unfortunately, SGA's writers didn't see it that way because Season 5 felt like a bizarre writers' experiment where the SGA writers got the opportunity to indulge themselves by using poor SGA as a guinea pig. JM got Whispers to coincide with a horror project he was working on; RCC & BW got to practice for SGU with Vegas and The Shrine; MG got to indulge his McKeller obsession, and I have no idea what was going on with CB and his repetitive Keller+Kidnapped/On the Run+Woods episodes, Tracker and Identity.

I saw Season 4 as a great setup for Season 5 and believed that Season 5 should have been even better. It annoys me that it turned out much worse.

[dacooker]

SGA reboot when SGU fails, sigh

[Coremae]

The writers lost interest, as most writers do , when they're not allowed to be bold and do daring out of this world
<snipped by Moderator>
Doctor Who and BSG seemingly had a creative team that allowed every one to go freaking crazy, and it worked. BSG final episodes was magical, and Doctor Who last season with the Pandorica was explosive and incredibly fantastic. As for our creators; It's like the writers of Stargate is given a Bugetti Veyron, but only allowed to move the car ten feet, and put it back where they found it. And eventually the novelty of it being a Bugetti Veyron wears off, and you'd prefer a jalopy that can drive around town, than an expensive car that goes no where.

Where they should have gone. Here's where I would have gone: Weir would have started another Asuran planet, with her being in charge. Rodney's use of the ascension device isn't a hundred percent and he's slowly evolving. Ronon wants to do more to save the people of Pegasus, and start leaving behind advanced weaponry for people to use against the Wraith. Sheppard finds out that he gave that beautiful woman who ascended biological material which made her pregnant, and his baby comes to pay him a visit. Teyla starts feeling vampiric and finds out she can draw life force from others just by touching them. She's afraid at first, but something in her starts to change. Michael has several clones, one of which died, the others are busy building armies to fight against the Wraith. l Wraith who left the galaxy, and are actually ancients who injected themselves with the Wraith virus because they were dying from a plague, returns after several years. The word is the Atlantians has returned, and they're curious. They're not like the other Wraith since they feed on wraith, and being ancient, they don't use their hands, but suck energy out of their victims. It was they who made the wraith lame; destroying tens of thousands of hives and slaughtering billions of Wraith. Humans once numbered in the trillions (they were in Pegasus for millions of years, do the math) in Pegasus, got wiped out by the Wraith, and these Ancients who were dying decided to forget "ascend or die" and chose to live forever. Woosely comes to Atlantis, and knows what Ronon is doing, and decides to help by bringing even more earth tech for Ronon to 'forget'.

Even though we got what we got, the numbers were good enough to warrant two or three more seasons. Who is to blame? Gordon Gekko's "Greed is good.

<Snipped by Moderator.Spec/spoilers for SGU need to be tagged correctly AND be relevant to this discussion topic.Bagpuss.>

[maxbo]

I don't know how making EATG into two episodes would have concluded the series especially with all the things left in the open like the Asgard, and the possibility of the existence of the Daedelus variations aliens, and so many others like the Genii stuff and other potential alien races. To me, EATG seemed mostly like superhive vs Atlantis. Nothing that really resolves too many plot arcs.

Ideally, the writers should have used the entire season to set up EATG. But I do agree with you that even then there would still have been a lot of loose ends, which is why we would've still needed movies to continue the SGA story.

I really liked Tracker too minus Keller. Just that device thing was awesome. It would have been awesome to explore where that device came from. I don't remember but was it of ancient origin? Identity was bleh. Just because you put a hot chick into the fray doesn't make the story better. I really hated the traveller's chick. Was ridiculous. Oooh, I'm a hot chick, but I'm a strong female character so lemme torture you with no consequences. Not once...twice.

Tracker is one of the wasted S5 episodes that irritates me the most because it should have been so much more than it was. Ever since Ronon's introduction in Runner, I've wanted to know more about Runners and why & how the Wraith selected them. Instead of getting that kind of insight, Tracker was turned into a vehicle to showcase Keller... KELLER, of all people.

Oh, why no love for Vegas? I know it totally went off track (of the main story line, hello, AU), but it was a cool episode, we got a lovely nasty rock-n-roll Wraith, Sheppard in any reality is apparently a cool dude, Rodney in a suit, and the ending tied it all back together again. AU (time travel, alternative dimensions, etc.) give us some of great weird fun of science fiction - I think Vegas was a good example of that.

Or maybe I just really liked that Wraith . . .

I don't love Vegas, but I don't hate it either. I just think it would have been better if it had aired much earlier in the season and, I would like to have seen some connection with *our* SGA even if it was only a few seconds in the beginning and the end of the episode. As it was, Vegas was too out of place and that was magnified by it being the penultimate episode.

[Briangate78]

@Maxbo

I think you and I are on the same page. Season 4 was excellent, and the potential stories could of gone several seasons. Season 5 Started off very strong, but then after a strong mid-season, we got eps like Inquisition, Identity, and Brainstorm.

I actually really liked how they handled Weir in S4, was very dark and risky, and really made the character more 3D. Same went for Carson in S4. Then Season 5 was like WTF? lol.

[carmencatalina]

I As it was, Vegas was too out of place and that was magnified by it being the penultimate episode.

I hear what you are saying - in my usual clueless way, I was unaware of the pending cancellation (or, I guess it wasn't even pending at that point, but the fact of cancellation), and so when I watched Vegas, it was just a cool episode to me. This was before I ever posted to Gateworld - I was a SGA fan, but in my own little bubble of fandom, without other fans and without extra knowledge.

I can see feeling "cheated" of another episode with "our" characters in it, given that there was only one more episode left. If there had been another season waiting in the wings, maybe you would have felt differently . . .

Who knows.

[Coremae]

People hating vegas, and that's fine. I loved Vegas for what it was, especially how it tied into enemy at the gate.

[Teal'c_PI]

Finding out that these books are being written by fanfic writers is the main reason why I'm looking forward to them because I've often enjoyed the works of good fanfic writers a lot more than what SGA's writers put on screen. I've found that good fanfic writers delve into the characters deeper and better than SGA's writers ever did. I read some of Jo Graham's thoughts on these books and I think she shared more detail about some of the characters than I ever heard from the SGA's writers.

In fact, I find it unsettling how little SGA's writers seem to know their own characters. Every time I've ever heard them try to answer questions about the characters they either give some vague, generic response or say something that has me wondering if they even thought about those characters beyond whatever scene they were writing for them at the time.

I'm still shaking my head over the fact that we, the viewers, are supposed to have seen Radek Zelenka as a creepy hair-sniffing perv that no one really liked. I mean, really! Did any of SGA's writers even watch the show to see that this is *not* how Zelenka comes across.

So, if canon means having the same type of lazy, careless, repetitive writing that I saw on SGA, since Season 1, then I never, ever want to read that type of novel. If these novels continue, then I want them to continue to be written by writers who are interested enough in the characters to go beyond the pitiful scraps that SGA's writers gave us.

For me, the only good thing about SGA's cancellation was that it stopped these writers from being able to butcher and/or wallpaper the characters that I love on a regular basis.

I agree with absolutely everything you said! I can think of so many times when I was disappointed by so-called 'character development' in SGA. Probably the most horrific moment was when everyone - even Sam! - decided to start bashing Zelenka. (Personally, from what I saw in the special features for S4, I think that was Martin Gero's idea. Don't ask me why they let him get away with it, unless the rest of the staff hated Zelenka and never had a chance to show it...) And I have to admit that I was half-thrilled with SGA's cancellation because I was getting more and more irritated with the characters' boring qualities. About the only one who got any decent episodes was Rodney, and that brings me to...

I agree that there was more good about SGA than bad and I appreciate the good things that SGA's writers & creators gave us: a great cast, interesting characters and the foundation of an intriguing storyline. Unfortunately, the good has been tainted by the bad because I don't think SGA's writers ever fully appreciated what they had in SGA. Because of this, I blame them for SGA's cancellation.

IMO, if SGA had been in the hands of writers who were excited about the show and wanted to see it grow, then I believe that the ratings could have been even better than the respectable ratings SGA ended with. And, with higher ratings, there's no way that MGM and Syfy would have chanced canceling it for the unknown.

In my perfect little world, new, talented writers would have been brought on board before the old guard writers could start recycling SG-1 storylines for SGA and before they became so attached to Rodney that almost every episode had to be Rodney-heavy. Yes, I love the character, but I also love the other, much less used, characters.

I look at the great ratings that Eureka has been getting in its 4th season and believe that SGA's ratings could have been just as good if only the writing pool had been overhauled. I don't blame any of the Stargate writers for wanting to try something new and I never did, however, I do blame them for taking SGA for granted because by doing so they made SGA vulnerable to cancellation. And, worse than that, they ended SGA in such a disappointing way that I doubt that I will ever watch Season 5 straight through.

If Stargate's writers had been thinking ahead, they would have made sure that SGA got the best send off possible because that way, even if SGA fans were disappointed by the show's cancellation, we would have enough fond memories of what a great job TPTB did with the show that people like me wouldn't be wishing for new writers for anything SGA-related in the future.

Again, I agree with you. I thought time and time again when I was watching SGA episodes that if only they'd stop copying SG-1, the show would be so much better! I'm not really a big fan of Rodney, so it bugged me even more that he was so overused, and I found myself absolutely amazed when I realized that Sheppard only got one character episode, Outcast! (And plus, I found the Replicator arc in that episode much more interesting than the Sheppard arc...)

What really aggravated me the most was the way the entire premise of SGA was wasted. The entire first season could've been about exploring the city, with the Wraith found later, but instead they ignored the city itself and all its mysteries. To me, it proves that they honestly thought they'd succeed no matter what.

I'd give you more green if I could maxbo

[g.o.d]

...

I actually really liked how they handled Weir in S4, was very dark and risky, and really made the character more 3D. Same went for Carson in S4. Then Season 5 was like WTF? lol.

indeed it was