Spoilers for S2 "Seizure" : Hewlett's Crossover discussion ... and comments

[n4rc1ssus]

I read the new news on the crossovers with SGA to come. Then I got to the comments section ... specifically this one. This kind of comment honestly bothers me.

I thought that the O'Neill character was SPOT ON to the O'Neill we all know. He is now a general, and a higher general than we were left with at the end of SG1 and into SGA. MacGyver (sorry for the reference) has played and still plays the character perfectly; and, by what I've read of RDA's general personality, it really translates to Jack. How can anyone say that he ruined the character of Jack in SGU (IMHO).

Sam is now a completely different rank and has her own command ... and it just 'happens' to be command of the U.S.S. Hammond. If Carter doesn't make the decisions that Gen. Hammond used to make in response to adversity, even in dire straights, then she would not be worthy of commanding the vessel. Amanda would have to, even in the short time she has been on SGU, relay a much stronger (less emotional) mindset than she did in SG1. Just because she is a generally strong yet susceptible character in a PREVIOUS series of the franchise, does not mean that her cameos (or even pursuant roles) in the new series have to replay those character faults or even strengths, honestly.

Then we come to the Dr. Jackson appearances. I do believe that his cameos in episodes are very beneath the Daniel we all grew to love, BUT he is not a main character in this series ... NOR should he be. I personally love Shanks' contributions to SG1 but I don't think it would translate very well to the characters in SGU. In general he would definitely conflict with Rush's character in that Jackson is not a true scientist in the sense of the word, yet Rush is an experienced scientist/mathematician. If they were both together then there would be a conflict that the series could ill afford, especially a crossover with someone who is no longer a major player (though I would love Shanks there as a real-time contribution).

Okay enough ranting about it ... please tell me your ideas on the matter.

[kymeric]

Carter very much progressed into who she is now. From command of Sg1 during season 8, to coleading in 9 and 10, to running atlantis (flying it too), and commanding the SGC during the wraith attack on Earth. She is very much grown up as a person and is different as the captain of the Hammond vs the tech who went to Abydos 15+ yrs ago. It makes sense.

Likewise Oneil grew from a rebellious Colonel (colonels usually command a hundred or more, not just 5 man teams) to a B. General in charge of the SGC, and then 2 more promotions beyond that while running homeworld command. If anything his biggest character changes were in season 8 of sg1, which is a long time ago now. His humor still exists with his harsh boss attitude.

[Duneknight]

personality doesnt change according to rank not only that, the roles O'Neill and Carter occupied during their time in the SGC were tasked with huge responsibilities. You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

[carmencatalina]

You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

Do you really believe that people stop "maturing" when they stop being children? I stopped being a child decades ago, but the events of my life over the past few years have changed me greatly, and I suppose to a point, they have matured me as well. I don't see why that wouldn't be true of other people - life is pretty much made up of change, for most people. And thank goodness for that, else we would all be the annoying people we were at 20 (or 25 or 30 or 35 . . .).

[Deevil]

personality doesnt change according to rank not only that, the roles O'Neill and Carter occupied during their time in the SGC were tasked with huge responsibilities. You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

People grow and change due to experiences, loss, love, responsibility, jobs, lack of employment or even the style of hair. People experience the world differently and interact with it differently when something significant enough (to them) happens to change it.

Jack cannot be the same care-free Colonel he was now that he is a 2 or 3 star General.

Sam has grown into herself, and cannot be the same person she was when she was an uptight Captain.

Daniel cannot be the same person he was when he returned from Abydos the first time.

People are constantly changing and evolving. To suggest otherwise is near-sighted at best. If characters didn't change, didn't mold themselves to fit circumstances etc it makes it impossible to relate to them - and really, what would the point be in watching them at all. Character development is key to any TV show...

[Ashizuri]

personality doesnt change according to rank not only that, the roles O'Neill and Carter occupied during their time in the SGC were tasked with huge responsibilities. You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Can you clarify what you mean, because it sounds like you're saying that the characters haven't matured over the years which is...completely and utterly wrong.

[StargateWatcher]

Likewise Oneil grew from a rebellious Colonel (colonels usually command a hundred or more, not just 5 man teams) to a B. General in charge of the SGC, and then 2 more promotions beyond that while running homeworld command. If anything his biggest character changes were in season 8 of sg1, which is a long time ago now. His humor still exists with his harsh boss attitude.

thank goodness he's still got that awesome classic O'Neill trait!

[n4rc1ssus]

I completely agree with the replies lately, how can you honestly disagree with people's development. Though your body may not continue to grow larger after 25 years old, a person's brain has been proven to grow in 'usage' expontentially after the age of 5 ... as they say when you gain abstract thinking you have the ability to understand abstract thoughts exponentially ... at least that's what I learned in psych class. Which means by 25 years old you could in theory understand 125 times the abstract thought you understood when you were 5. This is obviously taken up by experience along the way but there is plenty of room to grow as a person ... and experience doesn't hurt that either

[zainea13]

I agree with the OP ... except for Jackson as a spy, I feel like they forgot to cast the part, and since he was on set that day they said "why not!" ... I mean yeah it's completely feasible they did stuff like that on SG1 all the time... but just seemed like he was put in there for no reason lol. Anyone could have had that role. But I guess O'Niell wanted to "send someone he could trust"...

[Eternal Density]

personality doesnt change according to rank not only that, the roles O'Neill and Carter occupied during their time in the SGC were tasked with huge responsibilities. You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

Not being children doesn't preclude people from progressing/growing. (No one actually used the word 'matured' until you did.)
Though I think it's perfectly valid to say they matured... like good cheese and wine.

[Duneknight]

People grow and change due to experiences, loss, love, responsibility, jobs, lack of employment or even the style of hair. People experience the world differently and interact with it differently when something significant enough (to them) happens to change it.

Jack cannot be the same care-free Colonel he was now that he is a 2 or 3 star General.

Sam has grown into herself, and cannot be the same person she was when she was an uptight Captain.

Daniel cannot be the same person he was when he returned from Abydos the first time.

People are constantly changing and evolving. To suggest otherwise is near-sighted at best. If characters didn't change, didn't mold themselves to fit circumstances etc it makes it impossible to relate to them - and really, what would the point be in watching them at all. Character development is key to any TV show...

character development in SG-1? i mustve been watching a different show. Stop reading fan fiction and look at the show; there was no trigger that changed these characters into the "serious" people they are now other than RANK and NEW SHOW.

you described SG-1 O'Neill as a care-free Colonel? because there was nothing to worry about right, I mean its not like his son killed himself or his planet almost got invaded. But of course these situations are so far out there that it would be impossible for the writers to actually give us real character development, hey just shrug it off and make all the character funny.

[Deevil]

character development in SG-1? i mustve been watching a different show. Stop reading fan fiction and look at the show; there was no trigger that changed these characters into the "serious" people they are now other than RANK and NEW SHOW.

I was talking about the show. There was some clear character development, whether or not you saw it is the contention. Since you didn't clearly to you there was none I'm not going to itemise how the characters changed and grew since the pilot episode. Or how they grew into their roles...

But Sam has been a Colonel since SGA, it wasn't a new rank for SGU just a new command.

you described SG-1 O'Neill as a care-free Colonel?

Even the most carefree of people have a past. He covered a lot of his problems with humour. By carefree I meant in reference to the way he treated his position (his own personal position, not the lives of others). He has become more serious about his role.

[Petra]

I read the new news on the crossovers with SGA to come. Then I got to the comments section ... specifically this one. This kind of comment honestly bothers me.

You know, the guy who made that comment is a well-known SGU's opponent. I don't think he's ever said a good thing about the show and I doubt he ever will. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but he's very biased and there's no point in getting upset over his comments. Cheer up! Lots of SG-1 fans love the portrayal of SG-1 characters on SGU. And yes, I'm one of them.

As I said about a gazillion times, I adore how Jack and Sam were portrayed. In Jack's case I actually don't believe that his character was somehow changed, just that the writers finally remembered that O'Neill's wit and humour were just one of many facets of his personality, not the total sum of it. So Jack behaves in SGU like he used to in seasons 1-6 of SG-1, before Baal and all, and TPTB keep his humour in check, unlike in the last few seasons of SG-1 when RDA kinda run with it unstopped. I love it. I have my beloved kick-ass Jack back.

I also found Sam's portrayal very natural and realistic. Her post and actions are very consistent with her character as I see it, so I'm happy.

I have mixed feelings about Daniel, tbh, but in the end positives outweigh negatives IMO. I thought his AF training videos were a nice tip of the hat towards the character and the franchise and they felt natural and appropriate. I have issues with the logic of him being the one to approach Rush and convince him to join the project, but I really, really liked how Daniel was portrayed in Human (as Daniel, not Jackson), so I'm willing to overlook them. And I think that using him in Subversion didn't make the slightest sense in-verse and was just a blatant stunt casting, but it was also one of the very few episodes when I actually found Daniel/MS hot (yep, usually I just don't see this hailed attractiveness of MS) so I can't complain, can I?

Taking all this into account, I can't wait to see McKay on SGU and I have faith that both he and Woolsey will be portrayed well.

I personally love Shanks' contributions to SG1 but I don't think it would translate very well to the characters in SGU. In general he would definitely conflict with Rush's character in that Jackson is not a true scientist in the sense of the word, yet Rush is an experienced scientist/mathematician. If they were both together then there would be a conflict that the series could ill afford, especially a crossover with someone who is no longer a major player (though I would love Shanks there as a real-time contribution).

Just out of curiosity, could you explain a bit more what you mean? Why do you think Daniel would clash with Rush? I mean, they seemed to get along well in Human. And over the course of SG-1 & SGA Daniel never had any problems with "true scientists" like Sam, Lee, Fraisier, Mckay etc.

personality doesnt change according to rank not only that, the roles O'Neill and Carter occupied during their time in the SGC were tasked with huge responsibilities. You cant say they matured through time because they werent children before. Your argument is ridiculous.

Dude, given your posts in the past - or your next one in this very thread for that matter - if I were in your shoes, I'd think twice, long and hard, before calling someone else's arguments "ridiculous"

[Ashizuri]

I have my beloved kick-ass Jack back.

Just stopping by to agree with everything you said.

I also found Sam's portrayal very natural and realistic. Her post and actions are very consistent with her character as I see it, so I'm happy.

Yup. Sam's in charge now, and has to make the rough decisions. She weighed two lives against everyone on her ship and made the right choice. What else could she have done?

...but I really, really liked how Daniel was portrayed in Human (as Daniel, not Jackson)...

YEEEEES!

And I think that using him in Subversion didn't make the slightest sense in-verse and was just a blatant stunt casting, but it was also one of the very few episodes when I actually found Daniel/MS hot (yep, usually I just don't see this hailed attractiveness of MS) so I can't complain, can I?

Y'know, at first I was all WTF regarding Daniel in Subversion (aside from the super hot thing) but then I decided that it works in my head because in my mind Daniel is now in Washington doing oversight and consulting and working with Jack and of course Jack would send some one he trusted in and there was a whole team of black-clad soldiers with him so I'm not even sure Daniel was in charge, he was just the lucky one who got bothered by Jack because that's sort of what they do.

How's that for handwaving and twisting the story to fit what I want?

Taking all this into account, I can't wait to see McKay on SGU and I have faith that both he and Woolsey will be portrayed well.

I'm excited too. I think all the other characters have been well done and true to their SG1 characters so I don't see why they'd suddenly mess up now.

[Lahela]

In Jack's case I actually don't believe that his character was somehow changed, just that the writers finally remembered that O'Neill's wit and humour were just one of many facets of his personality, not the total sum of it.

100% this! 110%, in fact!

[carmencatalina]

I'm sorry, what was the topic again? You guys distracted me with all this talk of Hottt!Daniel in Subversion.

[Ashizuri]

I'm sorry, what was the topic again? You guys distracted me with all this talk of Hottt!Daniel in Subversion.

It was something about how all the crossovers have been terrible and and how there was no character development in SG1. We decided this was wrong, wrong, wrong and moved on to better subjects.



On topic, I've thoroughly enjoyed all the crossovers and am actually really sad that we're not going to see Jack on SGU this season. And while I'm not Atlantis fan, I've always enjoyed McKay in SG1 so I'm pretty excited to see him as well and I have no doubts his character will be just fine. Hewlett thinks they did a good job so I'm gonna trust him on this one.

[carmencatalina]

Do we know if there is any chance of seeing Sam again this season? I know it is unlikely, given that the actress is busy with her own series, but I'm always happy to see her.

[jelgate]

I'm sorry, what was the topic again? You guys distracted me with all this talk of Hottt!Daniel in Subversion.

You people are so shallow

[Petra]

Y'know, at first I was all WTF regarding Daniel in Subversion (aside from the super hot thing) but then I decided that it works in my head because in my mind Daniel is now in Washington doing oversight and consulting and working with Jack and of course Jack would send some one he trusted in and there was a whole team of black-clad soldiers with him so I'm not even sure Daniel was in charge, he was just the lucky one who got bothered by Jack because that's sort of what they do.

How's that for handwaving and twisting the story to fit what I want?

*nods thoughtfully* Impressive

Do we know if there is any chance of seeing Sam again this season? I know it is unlikely, given that the actress is busy with her own series, but I'm always happy to see her.

Unfortunately I haven't heard anything. I think another Sam's cameo would be great, but as someone once put it "she's not essential to my SGU experience" I hope that at least she and Jack will be mentioned at some point but I'm also glad that they are used only when the storyline really calls for it, and not for the sake of having a crossover.

You people are so shallow

YES. Yes we are. And we are proud of it. *is proud* It doesn't matter how serious the discussion is, there's no such thing as wrong time or place to indulge in some thunking