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Thread: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

  1. #1
    Major Alan Wake's Avatar
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    Question Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Yesterday, when I was waiting for the series of Warehouse 13 to come on, a program called "Inside Secret " aired. It was basically an hour of t.v. that brought up many areas of government that are kept secret from us. Not just the U.S. government, but other areas of the world too.

    From Area 51, mind control, human testing... to the Vatican. All these areas were lightly touched on.

    I've seen many of these programs before, you probably have too if you watch a lot of Syfy. But I've never actually asked anyone what their thoughts were on this though.

    Do you think governments should keep secrets from it's citizens?

    I guess my personal opinion would be... I'm not sure. There are many things that are probably left best hidden from the general public, but where does it stop?

    If you really have secrets to the Universe... to life... or hell, a brownie recipe for soldiers, shouldn't the people who keep the government running have access to that information?

    If I want to visit Area 51 and see what my tax dollars are paying for, shouldn't I be able too?

    I'm really curious has to what everyone thinks, and more so from our more "political" gateworld members.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel jmoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Should be doled out gradually. If it's revealed all at once, people panic and attempt to control anything outside of their control cause they're...well idiots.

  3. #3
    Major Alan Wake's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmoz View Post
    Should be doled out gradually. If it's revealed all at once, people panic and attempt to control anything outside of their control cause they're...well idiots.
    Actually, I've heard a theory about alien movies and such... the government is "releasing" them to see peoples reaction and "judge" how ready people are to hear secrets that have life altering effects. I know that's crazy, but there are weird theories out there.

    Having everything doled out gradually is a good idea in practice, but I'm not sure if it would work. However, the show in my original post I mentioned, made mention to Air Planes and how they've been dramatically enhanced over the years. So, as far as I know you could be right.

  4. #4
    Lieutenant Colonel jmoz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Movies do not reach a large majority of the world. They are not that very impactful. But then again, you might be right. Desensitizing us with movies about aliens and other things to soften the blow maybe.

  5. #5
    Captain Steelbox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    I for one think that humanity first has to find evidence of inteligente life out there, small hints of developed societies has first to surface before those that still do not believe to fully accept the idea.
    I believe that a vast majorit of the population does not believe in extraterrestrial life and those that are more reactional could cause panic and violence if the news is spread with out caution.
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  6. #6
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    Yesterday, when I was waiting for the series of Warehouse 13 to come on, a program called "Inside Secret " aired. It was basically an hour of t.v. that brought up many areas of government that are kept secret from us. Not just the U.S. government, but other areas of the world too.

    From Area 51, mind control, human testing... to the Vatican. All these areas were lightly touched on.

    I've seen many of these programs before, you probably have too if you watch a lot of Syfy. But I've never actually asked anyone what their thoughts were on this though.

    Do you think governments should keep secrets from it's citizens?

    I guess my personal opinion would be... I'm not sure. There are many things that are probably left best hidden from the general public, but where does it stop?

    If you really have secrets to the Universe... to life... or hell, a brownie recipe for soldiers, shouldn't the people who keep the government running have access to that information?

    If I want to visit Area 51 and see what my tax dollars are paying for, shouldn't I be able too?

    I'm really curious has to what everyone thinks, and more so from our more "political" gateworld members.
    Secrets exist for reasons. And I wholly support them being kept as such. Often a key reason for something being kept secret is the fact that disclosure would have an adverse effect on operational efficiency. It would compromise not only the actors involved, but also the project/operation itself. The citizen does not have a right to knowledge of any form. The government exists to serve the people, yes. But the people exist to serve the government as well. It's a two way deal, and the excuse of 'tax dollars' is meaningless. Taxes go towards maintaining the way of life that is enjoyed so much. If some of that goes towards a black project, then so be it.

    Secrets are kept because they would be damaging if they were released. The world is not a nice lovely place. The recent spy shinanigans between the US and Russia demonstrate as such. Finally, people are about to realise that the Cold War never really ended and that it's not just 'Rogue States' as former US President Bush liked to harp on about, that are a potential security threat. Every nation is a security threat to every other nation. There's a reason why the US refuses to share its B2 Stealth technology with even Britain. Hell, it's amazing in itself that the US let's Britain buy nuclear weapons... Nations in the modern world, even supposedly friendly ones still operate to undermine each other. That is painfully obvious, yet people still like to convince themselves that such a reality does not exist.

    Society, and international order hangs so finely in the balance, the slightest thing can upset it. To ensure the balance remains, secrets MUST be kept.

  7. #7
    Lieutenant General Pharaoh Atem's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    i say let all the secrets out the worlds going to end in 2012 might as well confess your sin's

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Government can try to keep secrets but governments are made up of people and some people will have a drive to leak information because they don't believe that what the government is keeping secret should remain secret. For one, I'm grateful for such people. Then, you have the secrets that aren't really secrets at all, but more a matter of 'it makes us look bad and we'd rather you didn't know about it' which is what I think the majority of government secrets are likely to be about. Thing is, some people, usually the people it's happening to, already know all about it. The government just doesn't want their domestic audience to know about it. If a government is responsible for bombing Someimaginarylandistan, they may very well want their domestic audience not to know about it but it's sure not a secret to the Someimaginarylandistanis, is it?

    So, yes, let governemt try and keep its secrets, sure. But be grateful when someone does the hard and dangerous work of shining some sunshine into the plans because that's what keeps you free.



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  9. #9
    Lieutenant Colonel Rickington's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pharaoh Atem View Post
    i say let all the secrets out the worlds going to end in 2012 might as well confess your sin's
    Can you prove OR disprove that the world will end by the end of 2012?

    I hope you're not one of the many (unfortunate) who are misreading the Mayan calendar. . .

    "There is nothing in the Maya or Aztec or ancient Mesoamerican prophecy to suggest that they prophesied a sudden or major change of any sort in 2012," says Mayanist scholar Mark Van Stone, "The notion of a "Great Cycle" coming to an end is completely a modern invention." http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/faq.html

    I place the whole 2012 prophecy right next to the Y2K scares. Same thing really, nothing happened.

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rickington View Post
    Can you prove OR disprove that the world will end by the end of 2012?

    I hope you're not one of the many (unfortunate) who are misreading the Mayan calendar. . .

    "There is nothing in the Maya or Aztec or ancient Mesoamerican prophecy to suggest that they prophesied a sudden or major change of any sort in 2012," says Mayanist scholar Mark Van Stone, "The notion of a "Great Cycle" coming to an end is completely a modern invention." http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/faq.html

    I place the whole 2012 prophecy right next to the Y2K scares. Same thing really, nothing happened.
    it's not the end of the world, it's the end of an age
    going into the age of aquarius



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  11. #11
    Major General LtColCarter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    Yesterday, when I was waiting for the series of Warehouse 13 to come on, a program called "Inside Secret " aired. It was basically an hour of t.v. that brought up many areas of government that are kept secret from us. Not just the U.S. government, but other areas of the world too.
    Interesting...I wish I would've caught it. Do you remember the name of the show?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    From Area 51, mind control, human testing... to the Vatican. All these areas were lightly touched on.

    I've seen many of these programs before, you probably have too if you watch a lot of Syfy. But I've never actually asked anyone what their thoughts were on this though.

    Do you think governments should keep secrets from it's citizens?
    Personally, no, I don't think governments should keep things from its people. I know this is going to contradict what I just said...but I do see why governments do it. For example, when the US was building the first nukes. I think that was wise to keep a lid on that for reasons of national security. After all we wouldn't want our enemies to pick up a copy of the New York Times with the plans to our latest nuke outlined in it, would we?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    I guess my personal opinion would be... I'm not sure. There are many things that are probably left best hidden from the general public, but where does it stop?
    Very true...very true...

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    If you really have secrets to the Universe... to life... or hell, a brownie recipe for soldiers, shouldn't the people who keep the government running have access to that information?

    If I want to visit Area 51 and see what my tax dollars are paying for, shouldn't I be able too?
    I see your point here, but I refer you to what I said about national security and our enemies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Wake View Post
    I'm really curious has to what everyone thinks, and more so from our more "political" gateworld members.
    Of course, my curious side wants to know everything...from Area 51 to the latest fighter jet that the government is working on. Nonetheless, I can see why those things are kept under wraps.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    As long as we have some measure of oversight I think secrets are generally OK. If something really bad is going on then eventually someone is going to blow the whistle (in a free country with a free press), but the stuff that is for National Security or our protection is likely best kept a secret. It's not like we as individuals don't keep secrets, pure honesty and complete access isn't as good as it sounds.

    However, how to get just the right balance...good question!
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  13. #13
    First Lieutenant Selene1212's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    I think if its something global going to the UN and other world leaders (like if it involved aliens, etc) then they should be allowed / made to reveal at least a watered down version to the rest of society. But as far as national safety goes I think they need to keep that info secret to best protect our interests.

  14. #14
    Major locutes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Secrets exist for reasons. And I wholly support them being kept as such. Often a key reason for something being kept secret is the fact that disclosure would have an adverse effect on operational efficiency. It would compromise not only the actors involved, but also the project/operation itself. The citizen does not have a right to knowledge of any form. The government exists to serve the people, yes. But the people exist to serve the government as well. It's a two way deal, and the excuse of 'tax dollars' is meaningless. Taxes go towards maintaining the way of life that is enjoyed so much. If some of that goes towards a black project, then so be it.

    Secrets are kept because they would be damaging if they were released. The world is not a nice lovely place. The recent spy shinanigans between the US and Russia demonstrate as such. Finally, people are about to realise that the Cold War never really ended and that it's not just 'Rogue States' as former US President Bush liked to harp on about, that are a potential security threat. Every nation is a security threat to every other nation. There's a reason why the US refuses to share its B2 Stealth technology with even Britain. Hell, it's amazing in itself that the US let's Britain buy nuclear weapons... Nations in the modern world, even supposedly friendly ones still operate to undermine each other. That is painfully obvious, yet people still like to convince themselves that such a reality does not exist.

    Society, and international order hangs so finely in the balance, the slightest thing can upset it. To ensure the balance remains, secrets MUST be kept.
    ditto!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Selene1212 View Post
    I think if its something global going to the UN and other world leaders (like if it involved aliens, etc) then they should be allowed / made to reveal at least a watered down version to the rest of society. But as far as national safety goes I think they need to keep that info secret to best protect our interests.
    Anything of that magnitude would go no further than the UN Security Council P5. It wouldn't even go to the rest of the UNSC.

  16. #16
    Jennifer Parker WingedPegasus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    The reason that secrets are kept secret, as explained by agent K:
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals--and you know it."

    Ironically, that came from a movie about aliens.
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  17. #17
    Major locutes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    it is true though

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel xxxevilgrinxxx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by WingedPegasus View Post
    The reason that secrets are kept secret, as explained by agent K:
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals--and you know it."

    Ironically, that came from a movie about aliens.
    that's completely true and yeah, funny that it's about aliens and the MIB no less



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  19. #19
    First Lieutenant Selene1212's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Officer Bennett View Post
    Anything of that magnitude would go no further than the UN Security Council P5. It wouldn't even go to the rest of the UNSC.
    That was just my opinion.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Government Secrets... should they be kept Secret?

    most secrets are secrets because people don't need to know everything.

    also, most secrets are secrets because it's bad for someone/something.

    unfortunately, most government secrets are secrets because it's bad for the government.


    so.... yea good question

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