Communication stones issues and glitches in Subversion

[Lt. Jeffer]

So the communication stones were NOT temporarily interrupted when the Cargo Ship jumped in/out of hyperspace... do you think can we safely attribute this to the fact that it's a different sort of FTL technology than Destinty has, or do you think it was it more likely an oversight?

It just occurred to me while they were torturing Rush, and I thought "hey, it's a good thing those torture devices doesn't somehow interfere with the communication stones connection", and then I realized that they had definitely already jumped to hyperspace... (?)

maybe the interuption when destiny came out of FTL has nothing to do with the persons itself but rather with the device which stop to transfer

[pipi]

Why should Young do this? Young did nothing but defends himself when Telford (in Rush's body, Telford was the one who didn't care about) starts the fight. This time Young could not be blamed for doing something wrong.

There wasn't a video kino filming was there? So you'd need more tangible evidence like a busted lip or cut on Young's face to help advocate Telford's guilt and consequently to justify extracting information from him. There's no certainty that Greer or Scott were peeking into the window to actually observe the first punch, they seem to only react after a bit of a rumble. For Young to claim self defence when he's got Telford in an interrogation room with beefy boys outside is a bit weak. Who's going to believe that?

[Artemis-Neith]

There wasn't a video kino filming was there? So you'd need more tangible evidence like a busted lip or cut on Young's face to help advocate Telford's guilt and consequently to justify extracting information from him. There's no certainty that Greer or Scott were peeking into the window to actually observe the first punch, they seem to only react after a bit of a rumble. For Young to claim self defence when he's got Telford in an interrogation room with beefy boys outside is a bit weak. Who's going to believe that?

Everybody who knows that Telford loses his temper as quick as Young does from time to time? I understand what you mean (I think), Wray could Young accuse to beat up Telford (and at the same time Rush) for some base motives. That's possible. But, I think, if Young would explain Wray what's going on here, and what had happened, with some more words than "yes" or "no", she might be able to understand it, won't she?

[seandarcher]

Your explaination is still too difficult for me to understand. So I'll just say this and tell me if it's the same or not.

My opinion of the voice/accent issue is that when Rush is in Telford's body, he speaks and sounds like Rush internally, then the technology translates using the host's body and original accent to outsiders making it identical to Telford. We have the technology right now to mimic someone else using software. The stone's version of this software would be more advanced and could be implanted subconsciously like a buffer in the host's brain to do the voice overs.

Yes I agree with you, it seems that the stones technology has the ability to use the hosts own mind as a buffer relaying the guests vocal requests through the hosts own speach centers. As I believe we have seen in previous episodes when the hosts body visits a family member/loved one on earth, that they need to identify themselves as to who they are? and we also still hear the hosts voice not that of the guests.

But this then begs the question, what is the primary purpose of the stones? is there an underlying design for infiltration? Not that Rush's impromtu plan is a good example of a well thought out attemp at it

Speaking of buffer a thought just occured to me, that when Young was a guest in the aliens body he had no trouble walking, which I would have thought you would have given the structure of their legs? So this in itself could be evidence to the fact that the devices do buffer requests from the guest to the host, I can't remember if he tried to speak(i'll have to go back and have a look).

Anyway my to cents.

[Brochill86]

As for the whole accent thing...

Your accent is "set" by the time you're around 5 years old (+/- a year or two). This explains why you can have a family come over from the UK and the 10 year old girl will have an accent, but the 3 year old boy will grow up speaking English with an "American" accent. This is more evident in foreign languages.

It has to do with muscle memory and development of facial and throat structures as the child ages. Those physical changes and links in the brain are for the most part set after a particular age and their anatomy is geared up to speak a certain way.

So it doesn't really make sense that just because Rush is in Telford's body, that Telford would have an accent. When Rush speaks, he isn't trying to talk with a Scottish accent. He's just speaking. Its automatic. It is being filtered through Telford's body.

Its not like Rush can will himself to digest a particular way when he's in Telford. He'll just digest food as per Telford's anatomy.

Reference (just a random one from tons of literature on the subject):
Munro M, Mann V. "Age of immersion as predictor of foreign accent" Applied Psycholinguistics (2005), 26 : 311-341 Cambridge University Press

[Astrofighter]

Your right, but its a show...its more interesting if people can't tell someone is using the stones, so for sake of the show the individual sounds like the person they are in and people can't tell the difference.

[Artemis-Neith]

As for the whole accent thing...

Your accent is "set" by the time you're around 5 years old (+/- a year or two). This explains why you can have a family come over from the UK and the 10 year old girl will have an accent, but the 3 year old boy will grow up speaking English with an "American" accent. This is more evident in foreign languages.

It has to do with muscle memory and development of facial and throat structures as the child ages. Those physical changes and links in the brain are for the most part set after a particular age and their anatomy is geared up to speak a certain way.
[...]

Your explanation sounds a little bit like a person have no other chance but to keep the accent he's learned as a child. That's not completely true, cos people have also different abilities to learn, or if necessary, to unlearn accents. You'll recognise this much more with non native speakers, some have a big accent, some not so much, and a very few people are able to speak foreign languages without any, or nearly without any recognisable accent. This is not only a question of the ability to speak, but also to listen to speech, and to transform what's heard exactly into the correct pronunciation.

So, I could imagine, that Rush faked an American accent, cos he lived some years over there, and he knows how to do this. To speak directly with the wrong accent would mean, write a big sign on your breast "I'm not the person, I pretend to be".

And also, I didn't hear Telford using a Scottish accent, cos he's never learned to speak this way, or lived in an environment, where he'd heard for years nothing but Scots talk to each other.

The writers of the show told us in different cases, that with the body swapping the intellectual abilities of the other person is completely transferred into the swapped body. Why should this be different with accents.

[Brochill86]

Your explanation sounds a little bit like a person have no other chance but to keep the accent he's learned as a child.

I never said that. I said there were anatomical changes that occurs and if someone else's consciousness was downloaded into someone else, perhaps the anatomy would set the person to their "default accent." I am talking about the context of the show.

So, I could imagine, that Rush faked an American accent, cos he lived some years over there, and he knows how to do this. To speak directly with the wrong accent would mean, write a big sign on your breast "I'm not the person, I pretend to be".

Two things here... One, Rush was already in Telford's body before and probably knew that he was "defaulted" to his standard accent. He's also seen others use the comm stones. Two, he saw the dream and I'm asuming that Telford was speaking in his American accent.

Also, if Rush was trying to mask his accent, then wouldn't have have given it up during the torture scene where he stated he was Rush? We never saw Rush in Telford with the LA, so we don't know, but I'm guessing it would be difficult to keep up with the act while being tortured and there'd be no reason to keep it up after he comes out.

And also, I didn't hear Telford using a Scottish accent, cos he's never learned to speak this way, or lived in an environment, where he'd heard for years nothing but Scots talk to each other.

The time when Telford was in Rush, it was mostly Telford's POV. The few times they cut to Rush he looked scared/confused/bloodied.

The writers of the show told us in different cases, that with the body swapping the intellectual abilities of the other person is completely transferred into the swapped body. Why should this be different with accents.

And I said that one's accent isn't "intellectual." Its the person's body. More evidence of this is when Rush was one of the smurfs. He couldn't will himself to speak English. Probably because smurfs lack the anatomical ability to speak English.

Maybe we should pose this question to Josephmallozzi's blog.

[Artemis-Neith]

I never said that. I said there were anatomical changes that occurs and if someone else's consciousness was downloaded into someone else, perhaps the anatomy would set the person to their "default accent." I am talking about the context of the show.

If you say the anatomy would set the person to their "default accent", you say body memory is first, and set the standard. Means, you never have to fake another accent in that very body. Intellectual abilities means nothing in this case? How about abilities to use different accents, or languages?

Two things here... One, Rush was already in Telford's body before and probably knew that he was "defaulted" to his standard accent. He's also seen others use the comm stones. Two, he saw the dream and I'm asuming that Telford was speaking in his American accent.

I don't thing this special memory is necessary. Rush had heard Telford speaking since some years by now, cos they work together in the same project. And of course Telford will speak with an American accent while in his own body, Rush remembered Telford's meeting with the LA people.

Also, if Rush was trying to mask his accent, then wouldn't have have given it up during the torture scene where he stated he was Rush? We never saw Rush in Telford with the LA, so we don't know, but I'm guessing it would be difficult to keep up with the act while being tortured and there'd be no reason to keep it up after he comes out.

Self-control? He's able to endure the torture a while, since he's assuming that Kiva will kill him once she knows who he is, he just don't want to die.

The time when Telford was in Rush, it was mostly Telford's POV. The few times they cut to Rush he looked scared/confused/bloodied.

That was the same with Rush in Telford's body. We always saw Rush's POV, with a very few exceptions.

And I said that one's accent isn't "intellectual." Its the person's body. More evidence of this is when Rush was one of the smurfs. He couldn't will himself to speak English. Probably because smurfs lack the anatomical ability to speak English.

Rush was never inside a Blue, that was Young. And Young simply couldn't speak the Blues language, cos he's never learned it, same with the Blue in Young's body, the Blues never learned English, that would be an intellectual ability, both don't have. To fake, or not to fake an special accent has also something to do with intellect. If you have very good ears, and the perfect organs to speak any sound humans can produce, that would be very helpful, I think, but not the only premise.

Maybe we should pose this question to Josephmallozzi's blog.

Yeah, I'd like to read his answer.

[Gollumpus]

Meh, to Kiva all Earthlings sound the same maybe?

I love the show, You all know the Cap'n is a superfan (So much so I just started singing "Superfan" to the tune of "Superfreak").

What I want to know is the following:

1.) do you try to sound like Rick James while singing?
2.) do you wear a Rick James wig while singing?



regards,
G.

[EllieVee]

I think it's just disappointing given that Carlyle is a vocal chameleon that Rush didn't try an American accent when he's 'Telford'.

[ArchaeoNerd]

I probably did. I'm sorry. But we shouldn't see the loaner anyway. I guess Rush is good at doing the american accent then.

I have the idea that it's like Quantum Leap - that to Rush himself, his voice would sound like his own (as it does to us, the audience), but to the people he interacts with, he sounds like Telford (including Telford's accent).

ArchaeoNerd

[Eternal Density]

For an obvious example, it should be easier for a woman to impersonate a man in a man body. So it's easier to impersonate Obama's voice in Obama's body.

You mean like Chloe's rumoured to do next season?

[Eri8321317]

The way I've seen the whole accent situation is this. And please, if I'm wrong, someone correct me.

I never considered, when two people use the stones, as swapping bodies. I know that's what it is, but I believe it's more of the minds of the two individuals swap, as opposed to bodies. So you have Rush's mind in Telford's body, but everything else is Telford. So Rush is speaking as he normally would, but because it is Telford's body (and vocal cords, throat muscles, etc) it sounds just like Telford, and without an accent. Also, I honestly believe in the situation Rush was in during Subversion, the least of his problems would be trying to hide or show an accent. He is just speaking normally, and the signals from his mind going to Telford is simply just normal speech. There isn't anything hindered or added to.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I always thought of it more that the 2 people swap minds, as opposed to bodies.

Also, since Telford's mind is in Rush's body, Telford could hold his own against Young, because of the combat training he's had. But the blows are being done to Rush (ultimately), and when Rush returns to his body, he won't be feeling so hot. So Telford in Rush's body, can hold up in a fight. But if he gets his butt kicked, it'll be Rush feeling the hurt later on. But I suppose Telford will be feeling some hurt from all that torture that was done to his body by the LA.

[Gollumpus]

Regardless of whether there would be any clues from speech patterns, just the body language of the two men would be different. Their respective postures would change. How one sees and interacts with the world is different if you are suddenly a few inches taller. There'd be clues.

regards,
G.

[pipi]

This could all be avoided if they used the secret handshake technique. Tried and proven to be effective time again and again.

[jmoz]

The way I've seen the whole accent situation is this. And please, if I'm wrong, someone correct me.

I never considered, when two people use the stones, as swapping bodies. I know that's what it is, but I believe it's more of the minds of the two individuals swap, as opposed to bodies. So you have Rush's mind in Telford's body, but everything else is Telford. So Rush is speaking as he normally would, but because it is Telford's body (and vocal cords, throat muscles, etc) it sounds just like Telford, and without an accent. Also, I honestly believe in the situation Rush was in during Subversion, the least of his problems would be trying to hide or show an accent. He is just speaking normally, and the signals from his mind going to Telford is simply just normal speech. There isn't anything hindered or added to.

But like I said, I could be wrong. I always thought of it more that the 2 people swap minds, as opposed to bodies.

Also, since Telford's mind is in Rush's body, Telford could hold his own against Young, because of the combat training he's had. But the blows are being done to Rush (ultimately), and when Rush returns to his body, he won't be feeling so hot. So Telford in Rush's body, can hold up in a fight. But if he gets his butt kicked, it'll be Rush feeling the hurt later on. But I suppose Telford will be feeling some hurt from all that torture that was done to his body by the LA.

Didn't the episode where pregnant Vala and Daniel switched address this sort of? Vala talked with Daniel's voice, but her manner of speech, like some of the cadences? or something were distinctly Valas. They showed her talking and Daniel talking in the tv that was hooked up to the camera that was recording her/him/whatever.

[maneth]

Yeah it's the visitor's mind and the host's body that others see and hear in their normal voices.

The only example we get of anything different is when Wray visits her girlfriend for the first time, and proves she's Wray by speaking Chinese.

The only time we get any hint of people having trouble adapting to a host body is Lieutenant James who couldn't deal with Amanda's disabilities, and then later Wray who could. I just wonder how Lt James managed to cut the connection to get back into her own...

[LT. COL. John Sheppard]

I love the show, You all know the Cap'n is a superfan (So much so I just started singing "Superfan" to the tune of "Superfreak"). I feel the ball was dropped in a few basic areas involving body swaps.

First off, Rush should have still had a Scottish accent in telford's body. Mind you, he would have a Scottish accent and telford's voice, but an accent that should have been mentioned as the tip-off to kiva that it wasn't telford. Either that or show Robert Carlyle's chops at doing an American accent.

Secondly, we have already seen that Rush is no match physically for Young. How was Telford able to put up an effective defense against Young? I know we saw Rush able to take out people with surprise attacks, but Young should have been able to beat him handedly.

Opinions? Arguments? ponies?

Also, a bit of speculation

Spoiler:

the reason telford keeps passing off memories is because in reality, he has a Goa'Uld in his head

Telford did not have Goa'uld in his head he was brainwashed like Teal'c in season5 (read the Spoiler)