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Thread: FTL vs Hyperdrive

  1. #1
    Captain
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    Default FTL vs Hyperdrive

    First, apologies if there is already a thread similar to this one, but I was not able to find it.

    Does anyone know what the difference is between faster-than-light travel and travel through hyperspace? Is it that when one is in FTL that one is in 'normal' space?

    Also, are we to assume that FTL is faster than hyperspace travel?

    Thanks in advanced for your ideas/thoughts!

  2. #2
    Lieutenant Colonel
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    FTL travels through regualr space, hyperdrive through subspace.

    and we dont know which is faster, regardless of useless caluclations based on very little

  3. #3
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    FTL travels through regualr space, hyperdrive through subspace.

    and we dont know which is faster, regardless of useless caluclations based on very little
    Thanks for the reply!

    Do we know yet how far they're travelling between jumps? Hang on... I see there's another thread on that, so I'll check that one out!

    Thanks again!

  4. #4
    Captain Quadhelix's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by escyos View Post
    and we dont know which is faster, regardless of useless caluclations based on very little
    That's not entirely true: we do know that when the Destiny uses FTL to travel within a galaxy, it must travel several days to get form one group of Stargates to another. Using its intergalactic hyperdrive, Atlantis could get from Pegasus to Earth in that time.

    As for a comparison between Destiny's FTL and regular hyperdrives, all that we can say is that their speeds are of roughly the same order of magnitude.
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  5. #5
    First Lieutenant Mike.'s Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    FTL travel is made in "layer" of reality closer to normal space. As a consequence we can still see the stars and the ship is affected by objects in its path - and has to fly around planets, suns, and has to get particularly out of range of a strong gravitational field or else the ship is pulled of course and finally FTL mode is disrupted.

    With hyperspace you can go through pretty much anything, planets, stars, etc; that layer of subspace does not interact with normal space. Probably the only thing to be on the look out are black holes. This way you don't have to plot complicated courses and keep a huge database of what's ahead. The fact that it's more resistant to outside influence also means that you can get yourself out of trouble real fast and usually in any circumstance.

    We can clearly see the huge advantage hyperspace has.

    Speed: we don't know anything about this aspect yet. Hopefully it will be revealed in future episodes.

    Power requirements: we don't know much about this either.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Hyperspace-drives is usually used instead of ehm, regular "FTL drives" because in the real world faster than light travel has some problematic consequences.

    First of all time-dilation. This is a real effect, and can be observed if you have two watches that are precise enough: Place one in a 747 flying around the globe, and keep the other in your office. When the 747s lands after flying around the globe with 600mph, the time on that clock will be a teeeny tiny bit behind the watch that was stationary. That is because time moves slower, the faster you get to the speed of light.

    If you therefore put people aboard a ship that travels at the speed of light, a couple of months might have passed for them, while many years have passed for those who stayed on earth.

    With a FTL drive, there are other consequences. Let's say that you set the course for a place three lightyears away to intercept an alien fleet. The battle is going to be observed with a big telescope. Since you travel faster than light, you can expect your future self to come back home from that mission, before you leave for it yourself. Moreover, your future self will be able to see himself in the big telescope, since he has traveled faster than the light that the telescopes observe.

    If you use a "hyperspace drive", you avoid those problematic real world consequences of faster than light travel, and it tends to be more popular in Sci FI shows for that reason.

    And as for
    Also, are we to assume that FTL is faster than hyperspace travel?
    Depends on what show or movie it is, and what the writeriswant to use it for

  7. #7
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    actually we have no idea what TYPE of FTL destiny's FTL is. and Hyperdrive is FTL

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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Hang on, are we all saying then that the pegasus intergalactic hyperdrive is better than the FTL on Destiny?

    From day one I assmed FTL was way more advanced and faster, especially given that it was developed by the all knowing alterans!

  9. #9
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Hyperspace is better in the sense that it's more resilient and generally more convenient.
    We don't know anything about speed so far.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by Rush View Post
    From day one I assmed FTL was way more advanced and faster, especially given that it was developed by the all knowing alterans!
    You assumed very, very wrong: we know that Destiny is traveling within a single galaxy, and that each jump takes a few days or more. Atlantis's intergalactic hyperdrive could cross a fairly large galaxy in under a day. Therefore, it is clear that the Destiny is far slower than Atlantis.

    Another important factor to remember is that, while Destiny was built by the "Alterans," so was Atlantis. Moreover, in the time between Destiny's construction and Atlantis's, they invented the ATA system, refined their neural interface technology past the "prototype" phase, and improved Stargate technology so that they could outside the nearest star clusters.



    Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    We don't know anything about speed so far.
    Well, we sort of do: we know that the FTL drive is very slow, at least when traveling within a single galaxy: it takes the Destiny anywhere from a few days to about a week to get from one group of Stargates to another. In that time, Atlantis could make one or more round trips between Pegasus and the Milky Way.

    As for the Destiny's speed when traveling between galaxies, we will have to wait until later episodes to find out.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    it's possible destiny FTL requires accelleration, making it faster on greater distances, but slower on short distances

  12. #12
    Staff Sergeant ngewakl's Avatar
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    I have a question? Is it ever mentioned that the destiny's ftl is not utilizing hyperspace?

  13. #13

    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    We have no idea how fast its engines are

    we know that it takes days to get somewhere, either to reserve energy as its not using a zpm type of system, or because it has to plot a more complicated path...

    we also dont know if its in slow or high gear

    the possibilities are endless. We can also assume that if destiny is 'smart' it could actually be calculating a flight path that is away from alien forms that it has encountered and been damaged by. If that is even remotely true then any computation done by anyone is even that more screwed

  14. #14
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    There is no difference. In traditional sci-fi nomenclature FTL is any mode of propulsion that can move the ship a light year in less than a year, in any manner. "Hyperdrive" and "hyperspace" is just a recently popular type of FTL propulsion. Hence, the question of comparison between hyperdrive and FTL is moot.

    Whatever kind of FTL the Destiny has, it may be either a hyperdrive or something else, and there is no telling what its top speed may be. In fact, there have been many speeds at which ships moved through hyperspace, depending on what kind of ships they were, during the course of SG.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    escyos: ... FTL travels through regular space ...
    How does the Destiny move through regular space? We know for a fact that is impossible, from Einstein. Even those who think FTL travel is possible acknowledge that it cannot be in the "regular" fashion, that is, moving through normal space at more than c.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by ngewakl View Post
    I have a question? Is it ever mentioned that the destiny's ftl is not utilizing hyperspace?
    Yeah, in Air part 1:
    WALLACE: Jeez! We're on a ship?

    RUSH (continuing to gaze out of the window): The design is clearly Ancient, in the truest sense of the word [...]

    SCOTT: Doctor Rush?

    RUSH: Faster than light, yet not through hyperspace.
    Also it looks completely different from hyperspace we saw in SG1 and Atlantis. It's using some other workaround to get past the cosmic speed limit - c.
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  17. #17
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    Arrow2 Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jansky View Post
    How does the Destiny move through regular space? We know for a fact that is impossible, from Einstein. Even those who think FTL travel is possible acknowledge that it cannot be in the "regular" fashion, that is, moving through normal space at more than c.
    This statement is not necessarily true if youre saying that no ship in the future can travel faster than light through our normal space/time and not utilizing subspace that exists out of our normal space/time then you should read up because one theoretical physicist like 30 years ago after watch star trek actually came up with a mathematical proof and idea that would let a person travel through our space/time faster than light. This is done by expanding space behind the ship and contracting space infront of the starship the contraction behind the ship acts like a wave would on say a floatation device of some form pushing it along at a certain speed and by contracting the space infront of you make it so that the ship never actually is (in its frame of reference) traveling faster than the speed of light its cheating but by our understanding of the universe today it would work.

    But in regards to destinys ftl drive i think in some way it would have to use exoctic particles i dont neccesarily know how but i do know that if your using the power of the stars then you have to have a drive that is pretty powerful. Might i also add that this ftl drive may have been an experimental drive we know the ancients came from the ori galaxy in their starship which would have most likely used conventional hyperspace engines to get to earth but who knows maybe they found this method was too inefficent compared to an ftl drive which would be able to be powered by the stars.

    remember the bc304 hyperdrive is based of asgard tech and it takes 3 weeks to travel from earth to atlantis and the asuran city ship took a while to make it to lantia from there homeworld which may even be relatively close to the star system that atlantis was orignally based in i dont think that theres any clear evidence to which is better

  18. #18
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitharr View Post
    This statement is not necessarily true if youre saying that no ship in the future can travel faster than light through our normal space/time and not utilizing subspace that exists out of our normal space/time then you should read up because one theoretical physicist like 30 years ago after watch star trek actually came up with a mathematical proof and idea that would let a person travel through our space/time faster than light. This is done by expanding space behind the ship and contracting space infront of the starship the contraction behind the ship acts like a wave would on say a floatation device of some form pushing it along at a certain speed and by contracting the space infront of you make it so that the ship never actually is (in its frame of reference) traveling faster than the speed of light its cheating but by our understanding of the universe today it would work.

    But in regards to destinys ftl drive i think in some way it would have to use exoctic particles i dont neccesarily know how but i do know that if your using the power of the stars then you have to have a drive that is pretty powerful. Might i also add that this ftl drive may have been an experimental drive we know the ancients came from the ori galaxy in their starship which would have most likely used conventional hyperspace engines to get to earth but who knows maybe they found this method was too inefficent compared to an ftl drive which would be able to be powered by the stars.

    remember the bc304 hyperdrive is based of asgard tech and it takes 3 weeks to travel from earth to atlantis and the asuran city ship took a while to make it to lantia from there homeworld which may even be relatively close to the star system that atlantis was orignally based in i dont think that theres any clear evidence to which is better
    An Alcubierre drive

    I disagree about that Ancients traveling between the Ori galaxy and the MW. In Avalon PtII Daniel said the Ancients traveled for thousands of years before settling in the MW. If they used FTL this long journey time would make sense. I am not sure but it has been hinted that ships traveling in Hyperspace could do it quicker but not in enough time to be viable hence the supergate.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitharr View Post
    This statement is not necessarily true if youre saying that no ship in the future can travel faster than light through our normal space/time
    [...]
    expanding space behind the ship and contracting space infront of the starship
    [...]
    the ship never actually is (in its frame of reference) traveling faster than the speed of light
    It's not really "normal" if you're stretching the fabric of space behind the ship and shrinking it in front, also it's still not going faster than light within its own region of space. Just a nitpick.
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    Default Re: FTL vs Hyperdrive

    To Vitthar:

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike. View Post
    It's not really "normal" if you're stretching the fabric of space behind the ship and shrinking it in front, also it's still not going faster than light within its own region of space. Just a nitpick.
    Yah, that's what I would have said. I am aware of this trick (read it in a magazine in an article on the feasibility of Trek tech long ago), but for one it really is kind of a cheat, and for another the (greatly simplified) text implied that you would have to get the shi within a bubble of some sort within which it was not moving at all, and from the outside the bubble would do what you described. But that's not quite normal space anymore, is it?

    Or, perhaps it was a different theory. But it does match your description (decades old, result of a physicist watching Trek, etc.).

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