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Matt Smith, Actually the 12th Doctor?

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    #16
    Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
    That still doesn't make any sense.... by the OP's logic:

    First Doctor = William Hartnell
    Second Doctor = Patrick Troughton
    Third Doctor = Jon Pertwee
    Fourth Doctor = Tom Baker
    Fifth Doctor = Peter Davison
    Sixth Doctor = Colin Baker
    Seventh Doctor = Sylvester McCoy
    Eighth Doctor = Paul McGann
    Ninth Doctor = Chris Eccleston
    Tenth Doctor = David Tennant
    Eleventh Doctor = David Tennant
    Twelfth Doctor = Matt Smith

    The first incarnation does not disqualify him from having a numerical prefix.
    It making no sense was my point. The thing that I was trying to point out, is if you base the numbers strictly on regenerations, the you end up starting to number the Doctors with Troughton because he was the first regeneration and Matt Smith still ends up as Eleventh.

    It just has to be accepted that RTD wasted a regeneration on Tennant during 'Journeys End', and there is only one left. It has to be addressed unless they work in a new story to give him more or work out a way to give him more from past events (like the complete psychic power of humanity being used to restore the Doctor and giving him a fresh set of 12). People would want to shrug it off as "oh, he never fully transformed so it doesn't count" and since even the first episode of the new season is called 'The Eleventh Doctor' it does show you need to transform fully to go up a number.

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      #17
      Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
      It making no sense was my point. The thing that I was trying to point out, is if you base the numbers strictly on regenerations, the you end up starting to number the Doctors with Troughton because he was the first regeneration and Matt Smith still ends up as Eleventh.

      It just has to be accepted that RTD wasted a regeneration on Tennant during 'Journeys End', and there is only one left. It has to be addressed unless they work in a new story to give him more or work out a way to give him more from past events (like the complete psychic power of humanity being used to restore the Doctor and giving him a fresh set of 12). People would want to shrug it off as "oh, he never fully transformed so it doesn't count" and since even the first episode of the new season is called 'The Eleventh Doctor' it does show you need to transform fully to go up a number.
      For starters, no it doesn't. All you have to do is shrug it off for it not being a real regeneration, as it seems everyone (including the BBC) has. Second, the first episode of the new series is The Eleventh Hour, not The Eleventh Doctor.
      "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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        #18
        I read Eleventh Doctor on TV, kid you not, but still, he's referred to as the Eleventh Doctor by the BBC so regardless of Tennant's regeneration history.

        As for Tennant's second regeneration, it can't just be shrugged off, because it turns into an easily abused "oh lets kill him off with a fake regeneration" event. He regenerated, the only difference was he had somewhere to put the excess energy before it changed anything more than his health condition. They can decide to completely ignore for now, but eventually they will have to explain it because he used 1 of the 12. The only real difference is they have to come up with an explanation for for more regenerations after Twelfth inside of Thirteenth. People would rather say "oh no, it doesn't sound" because it means we are left with two more regenerations, instead of one.

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          #19
          Honestly I think the 'dumping energy into the hand' explanation more than covers it.

          Consider the Master's 13th incarnation (the Peter Pratt/Geoffrey Beavers burnt-out one). In his final life, his physical being is charred and burned out, not withered out like an old man.

          The way I take that is that regeneration is not a finite number of things to be used up, but rather more akin to a 13oz glass. Once it's filled up, it won't take anymore and that'll be the end. But rather than use up another 1oz of that space, Ten dumped that extra 1oz into another glass.

          Thus he is Ten, not Ten/Eleven; and Matt Smith is Eleven, not Twelve.
          "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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            #20
            The Doctor did fight in the time war, and I think the time lords gave their soldiers more regenerations (to make them more effective in combat or something).

            That one Time Lady in "The End of Time pt 2" basically said that their people were forced to die, then regenerate only to die again, in an infinite cycle. That could mean that the Time Lords were granted unlimited regenerations, or at least more than the normal amount during the Time War.
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              #21
              Originally posted by Empress Vajnraa View Post
              The Doctor did fight in the time war, and I think the time lords gave their soldiers more regenerations (to make them more effective in combat or something).

              That one Time Lady in "The End of Time pt 2" basically said that their people were forced to die, then regenerate only to die again, in an infinite cycle. That could mean that the Time Lords were granted unlimited regenerations, or at least more than the normal amount during the Time War.
              Or it could just mean that they were forced to die, killed again, regenerated and killed again until their cycle ran out. I don't think the Dalek's would be the kind to keep up a never ending cycle of torture like that.

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                #22
                The regeneration is probably more to do with the change itself, maybe a timelords DNA can only rearrange itself so many times (If thats what it does...) and tennents didnt, infact there was enough energy left over to make 2 more doctors... so that seems like he bearly used any of the regeneration energy on himself... even when the doctor runs out of regenerations do you think he'll actually die? nope he'll be back again with a whole new set Its doctor who they can do anything... Plus he's the freakin' doctor! Also this is a moot point cos as someone has said above as far as the BBC and Moffett are concerned he's the 11th doctor and thats that
                I dunno what to put in here now..

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                  #23
                  I don't think it counted, and I think he still has two more lives after Eleventh has had his time.
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                    #24
                    Originally posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
                    I don't think it counted, and I think he still has two more lives after Eleventh has had his time.
                    i don't think the regernations are counted at all anymore.
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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Pharaoh Atem View Post
                      i don't think the regernations are counted at all anymore.
                      Although that makes sense, I kinda want the Thirteenth Doctor to be the last. And the series ends with his(or her ) death. Then a new show when he is resurrected.

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                        #26
                        Doctor Who can never end
                        "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Replicator Todd View Post
                          Although that makes sense, I kinda want the Thirteenth Doctor to be the last. And the series ends with his(or her ) death. Then a new show when he is resurrected.
                          so just end 50+ years of history to make a copy of doctor who ......ummmm no .

                          battlestar galactica 1980 anyone >?
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                            #28
                            Originally posted by Pharaoh Atem View Post
                            so just end 50+ years of history to make a copy of doctor who ......ummmm no .

                            battlestar galactica 1980 anyone >?
                            Thats not what I meant....i'm saying that final episode ends with the death of the 13th Doctor, and a new show begins with the 14th anyways.

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                              #29
                              Matt is the eleventh doctor. The consensus on this is very clear. Ten had a meta-crisis and he healed himself but he never had a full regeneration.
                              He's like fire, ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun.
                              He's ancient and forever. He burns at the centre of time and he can see the turn of the universe.
                              And he's wonderful.

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by Replicator Todd View Post
                                Thats not what I meant....i'm saying that final episode ends with the death of the 13th Doctor, and a new show begins with the 14th anyways.
                                Doesn't make sense to me.
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