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Matt Smith, Actually the 12th Doctor?

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    Matt Smith, Actually the 12th Doctor?

    This has actually bugged me ever since i saw 'The Journey's End' the first time but I only recently bothered thinking about it in-depth.

    Back in 'The Journey's End' when The Doctor is shot by a Dalek he regenerates but instead of changing his form he uses the energy to repair his body then directs the excess energy into his hand so he doesn't need to change.

    The exact quote he explains it with:
    'I used the regeneration energy to heal myself but as soon as that was done, I didn't need to change, I didn't want to, why would I? Look at me. *adjusts tie* So to stop the energy going all the way I siphoned off the rest into a handy biomatching receptical, namely my hand, my hand there, my handy spare hand.'

    It was first stated in The Deadly Assassin that a Time Lord can regenerate twelve times before dying (thirteen incarnations in all). - "The Deadly Assassin". Robert Holmes, David Maloney. Season 14. British Broadcasting Corporation. 1976.

    Does this mean that the Doctor is infact on his 12th incarnation?
    Das guy eating vegetabbles, says 'Waock!' and nice guy obliteratio for sudden.

    I always hated that saying...

    #2
    It's a common point of discussion, but general consensus is no. Matt Smith is the Eleventh Doctor.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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      #3
      But it has never been confirmed or denied that this is the case.
      Das guy eating vegetabbles, says 'Waock!' and nice guy obliteratio for sudden.

      I always hated that saying...

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        #4
        I do have to admit i would like it to be the case that it didn't count as a regeneration.
        Das guy eating vegetabbles, says 'Waock!' and nice guy obliteratio for sudden.

        I always hated that saying...

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          #5
          I don't think it counts as a regeneration, because the Doctor didn't actually change. He was able to control the energy and stop himself from actually dying and changing somehow by siphoning off the excess energy. I'm not sure exactly how that works. Has anything like that been done before? I've only seen up the Tom Baker Doctor in terms of Classic Who, as well as all of the new series'. My thoughts are that as long as the same actor is playing the Doctor it doesn't count as regenerating.
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          Find your Destiny

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            #6
            Ten was shot, fatally wounded and the regeneration took place. It doesn't matter than he never transformed, he still regenerated. Since he never transformed, he's still Ten and Matt is still Eleven because that's what matters, the actual transformation.

            Ten using a regeneration to heal himself and then storing the energy in his old hand doesn't make him Eleven, it keeps him Ten but wastes a regeneration so what Doctor he is has nothing to do with what number regeneration took place. If that were the case, the First Doctor would just be "The Doctor", the Second Doctor would be 1st, Third Doctor would be 2nd, Fourth Doctor would be 3rd and so on. In fact, if it were the case, Matt would still be number 11 because it was the 11th regeneration used.

            It does screw things up, because 12 regenerations mean 13 Doctors. Since 10th used up a regeneration to heal himself then dumped the rest of the energy, he did use up one of those regenerations so the next Doctor will be the last unless he's given more regenerations (which can happen, just look at the Master but it took the Time Lords to do it, so doubtful it will). Should Eleven copy what Ten did, then he'll be the last.

            It could have been an easy fix. If the Doctor ever needed to regenerate he could have used the energy stored in the hand to give himself back that regeneration but since it created "DonnaDoctor" (since Donna herself was the DoctorDonna), unless they bring back David Tennant, fatally wound him and use the regeneration to channel energy into Eleven (or a future Doctor) while keeping enough to heal himself.

            But when all is said and done, Matt is the Eleventh Doctor because he is the 11th incarnation. He is also the 11th regeneration (instead of 10th since David's Doctor used it to heal himself in Journeys End) and the next Doctor will be the last without some sort of drastic action.

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              #7
              Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
              If that were the case, the First Doctor would just be "The Doctor", the Second Doctor would be 1st, Third Doctor would be 2nd, Fourth Doctor would be 3rd and so on.
              That makes zero sense, Saber.
              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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                #8
                Matt is definitely the 11 Doctor, but I do kinda think that technically he is the 12th. What does that mean? I have no idea.

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                  #9
                  I'd bet the writes don't count it.. it'd just speed up the time in which they have write themselves out of the 12th regeneration limit

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                    #10
                    To agree with a post above, Ten did use up a regenertion, but only used it to repair his body. But it doesn't make Matt Smith the 12th Doctor as Ten was still.... Ten, afterwards.

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                      #11
                      There will be 13 Doctors and 12 regenerations and that hand almost-regeneration thing will be forgotten.
                      I see it as 10 drawing on energies that would normally go to power the regeneration process but diverting them elsewhere without actually going through the regeneration process. Regeneration may be the change process itself, not the energy used to fuel it.
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                        #12
                        You know I anticipate that we'll end up seeing more than just 13 Doctors. At least I hope so. There are oh so many reasons why they could expand the cycle given how many times it has happend to the Master. Granted I know it takes some of the poetry out of his life but there are always other ways to end the series. Not that I think it should ever be ended. Time and space are limitless so we've only just scratched the surface of potential stories.
                        Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by DigiFluid View Post
                          That makes zero sense, Saber.
                          The guy who created thread wants to know if Matt Smith is 12th because 10th used two regenerations, so essentially David Tennant was the 10th (first regeneration that created him) and 11th Doctor (second regeneration that just healed him).

                          What I am trying to point out is, if this were the case, then all Doctors would be based on which regeneration number was used. So William Hartnell wouldn't be the First Doctor, the First Doctor would be Patrick Troughton since he was the first regenerated Doctor. So the Second Doctor would be the First, the Third Doctor would be the Second, Fourth Doctor would be the third and so on.

                          However it doesn't work like this, and it requires the person to transform to become a new number, but it doesn't change the fact that 10th used up a regeneration and there is only one regeneration left (until they write in a way for him to get more). Just because he didn't allow it to change him doesn't make it any less of a regeneration used before. So I'd expect them to cover his remaining regenerations soon, because it can't be ignored, they could have ignored the 8th but they didn't, so I doubt they'd ignore this.

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                            #14
                            matt smith = Eleventh Doctor.
                            https://twitter.com/#!/Solar_wind84

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by SaberBlade View Post
                              The guy who created thread wants to know if Matt Smith is 12th because 10th used two regenerations, so essentially David Tennant was the 10th (first regeneration that created him) and 11th Doctor (second regeneration that just healed him).

                              What I am trying to point out is, if this were the case, then all Doctors would be based on which regeneration number was used. So William Hartnell wouldn't be the First Doctor, the First Doctor would be Patrick Troughton since he was the first regenerated Doctor. So the Second Doctor would be the First, the Third Doctor would be the Second, Fourth Doctor would be the third and so on.
                              That still doesn't make any sense.... by the OP's logic:

                              First Doctor = William Hartnell
                              Second Doctor = Patrick Troughton
                              Third Doctor = Jon Pertwee
                              Fourth Doctor = Tom Baker
                              Fifth Doctor = Peter Davison
                              Sixth Doctor = Colin Baker
                              Seventh Doctor = Sylvester McCoy
                              Eighth Doctor = Paul McGann
                              Ninth Doctor = Chris Eccleston
                              Tenth Doctor = David Tennant
                              Eleventh Doctor = David Tennant
                              Twelfth Doctor = Matt Smith

                              The first incarnation does not disqualify him from having a numerical prefix.
                              "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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