Gateworld Virtual Fleet 4.0 - Discussion thread

[Gormagon]

Well I only have the frame work and premise set up for my story the bolts technology was a combination of non Goa'uld technology that was mish mashed with their own. Anubis did some fine tuning and upgrading as seen in the TV show.

After Zeus was defeated by an alliance of System lords the weapon was dismantled and destroyed and the Eyes were split between 6 major Goa'uld because they could not decide who got the weapon and could not afford to fight over it.

I think having such a weapon would be important for Zeus as his bolt is a large part of the mythology surrounding him.

I will probably not get to any major work on this story soon as I still need to finish The Tale of Gindoaw Hiati and write a more modern Houjin story. Ill put it on my 3rd thing to write list.

[thekillman]

I think having such a weapon would be important for Zeus as his bolt is a large part of the mythology surrounding him.

Well, i was thinking of the Bolt as a Hara'kesh. In stead of the typical "sun god" hand device shown in SG1, the Hand of Zeus, Zeus' bolt, Zeus' lighting, etc would be a Zat-inspired hand device: it's capable of shooting zat-like bolts, and can torture via a pain-stick- like energy (More like the pain stick in SGU than in SG1).

The device was his own making, but since the Goa'uld kind of had a "share technology" policy, they didn't like that he had this technology, and so a war started. eventually Zeus was defeated but the Bolt was never found, and with Zeus the technology was lost.

[Gormagon]

Well that does fit^ in the stories Zeus's bolt is always this massively powerful weapon it seems.

[thekillman]

My biggest complaint with the Goauld was their very un-personal technology. The Gods of Egypt had more backstory to them than just some names and vague references. I think the Hand Devices were the ultimate tool to personalize them

[Gormagon]

Why not both then?

[Gormagon]

By the way, I got invited to join another Scifi forum that has Stargate sections. The person who started it was sick of the mods playing favorites and various other things.

I have been posting on it for a few days now, I like it. I was wondering if you guys would like to move our 4.0 discussions to that forum site? Or at least some of them. Sort of a fresh start without all the clutter present on this site I guess. Sometimes that can be a good thing.


http://stargatenewseasons.freeforums.org/index.php

[Princess Awinita]

By the way, I got invited to join another Scifi forum that has Stargate sections. The person who started it was sick of the mods playing favorites and various other things.

Mods play favorites ?? what a new term

Now then, I've been working on various models and found a few that work well for me and am contemplating sharing the specs.... Would you like to see them ?

[StargateWatcher]

[QUOTE=StargateWatcher;13375345]

Alright.

Let me know roughly what Earth century of natural-scientific and technological achievement (w/o being able to use alien-tech) the Houjin are at so I can be sure the transplanted Chinese, obviously because of their different history, are at a less advanced lvl of achievement.

Good point about using a different political designation than those four you mentioned to describe the Houjin nation's type of government. I guess kingdom is a bit tricky of a description for the Houjin national entity b/c the shogun was really a military dictator, not a divinely ordained type of head of government. However, Amann0407's Golden Dawn has the Alesian Empire which a High Council heads.
So it's a subtlety.

I'll call my Chinese transplantees the Hsin Fujianren (Mandarin for New Fujianese People, since they came from modern-day China's Fujian Province. They named their country Fujianguo (Mandarin for Fujian Nation).

They speak both a form of Mandarin and a form of Minnanhua (a major Fujianese Chinese-language dialect which is mutually unintelligible with the Mandarin Chinese-language dialect).

So, Gorm, have you had time to assess the Earth-w/o-ACQUIRED-ALIEN-TECHNOLOGY level of the Houjin? Have any thoughts on this latest development of my trasnplanted Chinese?

Does anybody else have any thoughts they wanna share, postive or negative? At worst, I'll only disagree with you.

[StargateWatcher]

From what I am reading here, you two {StargateWatcher and Gormagon} are planning on writing a collab story, I think the best way to do this is to do it on a pad like titanpad.com or write.roleplaygateway.com which allows as many users as you want to write a single scene, basically it is simply known to some as "Multiplayer Notepad" which allows writing and editing in full REAL TIME for all involoved to write a scene or story together. However both have limits of 2,000 numbered lines I think. I have not yet found what the limit is for RPG Write yet, but I know the limit for Titanpad is around 2,000 to 2500 lines in total. It is very useful stuff and I recommend it

Hey Awinita; thanks for recommending roleplaygateway.com and titanpad. I'm gonna suggest to ZGorm that we use it when we finally get down to collaboratively braisntorming a plot outline for the Hsin Fujianren and the Arata Houjinku.

[Gormagon]

So, Gorm, have you had time to assess the Earth-w/o-ACQUIRED-ALIEN-TECHNOLOGY level of the Houjin? Have any thoughts on this latest development of my trasnplanted Chinese?

Does anybody else have any thoughts they wanna share, postive or negative? At worst, I'll only disagree with you.

If I understand the question correctly, The Houjin have a stronger tech base then the Tau'ri because they developed the technology on their own. They are more advanced in every way then 21century Tau'ri technology. They have a much stronger industry, a more stable economic situation and minimal internal social divisions.

Now, the Tau'ri have been gifted Asgard technology and have acquired Goa'uld, miscellaneous technology and Ancient technology. Somehow *Bad writing*they have figured out how to reproduce it to some extent. This makes them more advanced in the areas of shields, f.t.l com and travel, sensors and possibly DEW's. I am unsure of the extent of DEW's they have in this fleet. However, the Tau'ri are a highly troubled race, their society barely maintaining cohesion. They are not a strongly united people. Disease, economic problems, environmental problems ect ect. The economic issues would lead them to have a weaker industrial strength when it comes to building ships, weapons and stations even though those vessels would be of higher quality, capable of being smaller due to the more compact advanced alien tech yet still as powerful as a larger enemy vessel.

It is difficult to measure a races advancement level simply because every race is different.(Usually)They advanced in different fields, some are highly specialized in certain fields like Asgard hyperdrives well others seem to be jacks of all trades as in the Ancients. The Houjin are highly skilled in metallurgy/nano engineering, advanced ballistics/long range weapons and bio-engineering.

As for the Chinese, what I would see them as is a supporting power to the Houjin kingdom. No f.t.l currently. I am debating the technology share policy of the Houjin, it is wiser to teach how to fish then give a fish(Like how China has been dumping money into..where was it the Carribbean? Well Thailand was helping to set up a economic base or something, I saw it on TV.) so perhaps they gave them the means to more quickly develop on their own to the point of hyperdrives, allowing them a stronger tech base or something. But they do possess space vessels perhaps with thorium fission powered drives and expendable weapons like coil guns or E.M propelled auto cannons and bombs. They would have no access to naquadah as the Goa'uld would have drained the planet or have very very little, like tritium on Earth.

However they are your race, something Killman suggested to me was to come up with three core concepts for your race. I need to find my notes/start keeping more notes but I chose Desire,(They have been isolated for so long, first by the void, then by the danger of the Goa'uld. Many of them have grown tired of it and wish to expand outward. The demise of the Goa'uld led them to believe that would now be possible.) Core stability(Economic, social. The isolationism has allowed them to work on their own internal issues.) and Forethought.(They want to gather as much information as is reasonable before performing any action in a situation, and have been spying on the LA, the Tau'ri, the Hebridans and possibly gathering information on the shadowy Aschen.)
From those I have a stable core and the ability to expand outward. I would really suggest doing the same with your race.

Next time I go to the Library I need to pick up the art of war.

[Gormagon]

Expanding on the no f.t.l problem, in Stargate it requires a rather large amount of power to create a hyperspace window. Without the extreme energy density of a element like naquadah,(or a subspace tap or some such device.) you would need a very very large nuclear based power source for "efficient" f.t.l travel. Also, if there was no naquadah left in the system that means they would have no access to other E5 elements, meaning an even greater difficulty in creating "denser" technology. Meaning, the power conduits and f.t.l system would have to be really big.

However, saying that they have a small amount of naquadah at their disposal opens up some options, like perhaps two f.t.l capable ships, one for exploring and then a warship. This opens up a possible story line, a Houjin science vessel on a long term assignment to study...a type X star for example detects them on its long range scanners and investigates.

This leads us to the work of establishing a timeline. When did they achieve f.t.l capability? When did they meet the Houjin? There is around a 300 year window or so from like approx 1750 A.D to now. I say that because at that time the Goa'uld were still at large, but the Houjin had expanded into the unnoticed systems along the boarder of the void between their space and the main galaxy.

Another story option, the Houjin helped fight off the Goa'uld from the Chinese homeworld. This would have serious possible repercussions however involving a System lord campaign of genocide. I think the safest option is that the Goa'uld abandoned your world after the naquadah was virtually depleted and your people were more trouble then they were worth to him, so he left.

[StargateWatcher]

If I understand the question correctly, The Houjin have a stronger tech base then the Tau'ri because they developed the technology on their own. They are more advanced in every way then 21century Tau'ri technology. They have a much stronger industry, a more stable economic situation and minimal internal social divisions.

Now, the Tau'ri have been gifted Asgard technology and have acquired Goa'uld, miscellaneous technology and Ancient technology. Somehow *Bad writing*they have figured out how to reproduce it to some extent. This makes them more advanced in the areas of shields, f.t.l com and travel, sensors and possibly DEW's. I am unsure of the extent of DEW's they have in this fleet. However, the Tau'ri are a highly troubled race, their society barely maintaining cohesion. They are not a strongly united people. Disease, economic problems, environmental problems ect ect. The economic issues would lead them to have a weaker industrial strength when it comes to building ships, weapons and stations even though those vessels would be of higher quality, capable of being smaller due to the more compact advanced alien tech yet still as powerful as a larger enemy vessel.

It is difficult to measure a races advancement level simply because every race is different.(Usually)They advanced in different fields, some are highly specialized in certain fields like Asgard hyperdrives well others seem to be jacks of all trades as in the Ancients. The Houjin are highly skilled in metallurgy/nano engineering, advanced ballistics/long range weapons and bio-engineering.

As for the Chinese, what I would see them as is a supporting power to the Houjin kingdom. No f.t.l currently. I am debating the technology share policy of the Houjin, it is wiser to teach how to fish then give a fish(Like how China has been dumping money into..where was it the Carribbean? Well Thailand was helping to set up a economic base or something, I saw it on TV.) so perhaps they gave them the means to more quickly develop on their own to the point of hyperdrives, allowing them a stronger tech base or something. But they do possess space vessels perhaps with thorium fission powered drives and expendable weapons like coil guns or E.M propelled auto cannons and bombs. They would have no access to naquadah as the Goa'uld would have drained the planet or have very very little, like tritium on Earth.

However they are your race, something Killman suggested to me was to come up with three core concepts for your race. I need to find my notes/start keeping more notes but I chose Desire,(They have been isolated for so long, first by the void, then by the danger of the Goa'uld. Many of them have grown tired of it and wish to expand outward. The demise of the Goa'uld led them to believe that would now be possible.) Core stability(Economic, social. The isolationism has allowed them to work on their own internal issues.) and Forethought.(They want to gather as much information as is reasonable before performing any action in a situation, and have been spying on the LA, the Tau'ri, the Hebridans and possibly gathering information on the shadowy Aschen.)
From those I have a stable core and the ability to expand outward. I would really suggest doing the same with your race.

Next time I go to the Library I need to pick up the art of war.

seems like that would make sense that the Houjin have a more stable industrial base; yah, you got the question right; I realize now that I asked a potentially tricky question, b/c it's difficult for you to estimate in the real world where Earth will be in the next few centuries; true--more people united together to achieve a common purpose means more manpower

Sounds like a good plan to describe this race in 3 diff aspects; I'll use that

ah, yes--Sun Tzu's timeless treaty on military strategy

[StargateWatcher]

Expanding on the no f.t.l problem, in Stargate it requires a rather large amount of power to create a hyperspace window. Without the extreme energy density of a element like naquadah,(or a subspace tap or some such device.) you would need a very very large nuclear based power source for "efficient" f.t.l travel. Also, if there was no naquadah left in the system that means they would have no access to other E5 elements, meaning an even greater difficulty in creating "denser" technology. Meaning, the power conduits and f.t.l system would have to be really big.

However, saying that they have a small amount of naquadah at their disposal opens up some options, like perhaps two f.t.l capable ships, one for exploring and then a warship. This opens up a possible story line, a Houjin science vessel on a long term assignment to study...a type X star for example detects them on its long range scanners and investigates.

This leads us to the work of establishing a timeline. When did they achieve f.t.l capability? When did they meet the Houjin? There is around a 300 year window or so from like approx 1750 A.D to now. I say that because at that time the Goa'uld were still at large, but the Houjin had expanded into the unnoticed systems along the boarder of the void between their space and the main galaxy.

Another story option, the Houjin helped fight off the Goa'uld from the Chinese homeworld. This would have serious possible repercussions however involving a System lord campaign of genocide. I think the safest option is that the Goa'uld abandoned your world after the naquadah was virtually depleted and your people were more trouble then they were worth to him, so he left.

I'll work thoroughly on the plot timeline and get back to you. Thanks again.

[Princess Awinita]

Hey Awinita; thanks for recommending roleplaygateway.com and titanpad. I'm gonna suggest to ZGorm that we use it when we finally get down to collaboratively braisntorming a plot outline for the Hsin Fujianren and the Arata Houjinku.

Your welcome, its easy and me and some friends make notes, list scenes, etc using the pads, its basically multiplayer notepad. We see and hear ads daily about GoToMeeting.com and "try free for 45 days!!" and I am thinking "I have titanpad.com and write.roleplaygateway.com, both are 1,000,000% free to use, why not make ads for that ??" but you get the idea

Most of my technology is listed on there and now I wonder if I should offer a few image links/ideas ?

[StargateWatcher]

Your welcome, its easy and me and some friends make notes, list scenes, etc using the pads, its basically multiplayer notepad. We see and hear ads daily about GoToMeeting.com and "try free for 45 days!!" and I am thinking "I have titanpad.com and write.roleplaygateway.com, both are 1,000,000% free to use, why not make ads for that ??" but you get the idea

Most of my technology is listed on there and now I wonder if I should offer a few image links/ideas ?

I certainly would be interested. I should do that myself too someday. Right now I've only sketched some of the tech I came up with, specifically weapons.

[Princess Awinita]

Ok, odd question; it was brought up on bookface between myself and one other concerning weapons and armor types.

In this case, what weapons are best effective against Kull Armor. We all know energy weapons, like lasers and small arms fire is next to useless. But armor piercing rounds work, barely, and sleep needles also work. To get around this we came up with several possible weapons that could get past Kull Armor, noted as KA from hereon.

The first weapon we thought of was Plasma rifles, right from halo, the plasma carbine as well, and also the brute shot and lastly gravity hammer and plasma grenades.

We thought the plasma rifle was the most effective given the rate of fire and heat generated to burn through to hit vital locations on the body. That was first on the list as best effective energy weapon against KA, with it also the plasma pistol.

The second on the list were the plasma grenades, once stuck to the KA wearer, the one within KA was dead in a heartbeat when the plasma went off in their faces or on their body.

We figured thirdly that the plasma carbines worked good for longer rage if aimed directly at the head or neck area where protection was thinnest.

we found however that with the right ammount of firepower, and a well placed grenade, Needler and needler rifle rounds were best to penetrate defenses of KA and thus score a kill from medium to long ranges without too much trouble. {the n eedles bounce once then stick to the KA, then explode rather violently, personal shields are disabled and the plasma grenade scores the final kill}

We sumaries that Gravity hammers only would knock the KA wearer 75-100 meters at best and only injure and possibly kill if aimed rightly.

Now, I want to know for sure if our summarising above was correct, because if it is, {even if it is not} these are very good weapons to have access to and think over of using.

[thekillman]

I simply do not believe this works.

Plasma weapons are ineffective. Whether you call it a staff weapon or a carbine. As to using other franchises weapons: results of the past are no guarantee for the future. What works for Halo doesn't necessarily work for Stargate.

I see no difference between a "Plasma grenade " and a kull getting hit by a HEAT missile i believe. No effect, so it won't work.

I have no idea what a needler weapon is, or why it would bounce and then stick. If it's long and sharp, it will stick in the ground 10x easier than in kull armor.

what is a gravity hammer?


So what IS effective?

-Shaped Charges. It's possible very low level SC's do not work, but a powerful anti-tank shaped charge should most definitely work. In fact, it's BS if it won't.

-Really heavy anti-tank rifles.

[Princess Awinita]

So, plasma rifles, overcharged plasma pistols, grenades, carbines and gravty hammers, those wont work ?? The Chiefs armor is pretty much KA to begin with and when the shields are down, he takes damage fast. So tell me just how exactly they wont work when it is not actually KULL inside the armor and is infact humans of the LA using stolen KA for their troops ?

[thekillman]

The Chiefs armor is pretty much KA to begin with and when the shields are down, he takes damage fast.

Halo =/= stargate. We don't even know what makes KA so special to begin with!.

So tell me just how exactly they wont work when it is not actually KULL inside the armor and is infact humans of the LA using stolen KA for their troops ?

we also do not know what keeps the Kull alive when hit by a missile. Is it the strength of the creature inside, or is there some anti-shock mechanism? or both?

So, plasma rifles, overcharged plasma pistols, grenades, carbines and gravty hammers, those wont work ??

It's shown that plasma weapons are blatantly ineffective. Whether this is universal or very specific (like being tuned for specific weapons), is unknown. However there's a 99 to 1 chance that any "Plasma" prefix weapon is ineffective. I do not think it can withstand Al'kesh bombardments and above, though.

Unless there's a vast amount of information i missed, there simply isn't a lot of really effective weaponry, other than a really big version of ineffective weaponry.

My best bet is an inch-long thin nail of Naquahdah or tungsten or something really dense, followed by an inch of gunpowder.

The only other thing i can think of is this :

Kull armor is clearly Composite. It's possible to "break" the armor by using multiple types of weapons, each effective at their own part of the suit. It would, however, require multiple hits on the same spot.


I'd just stick to an Abrahams with a kinetic penetrator.

[Gormagon]

Concussion waves. Turn him into soup inside his armor.

I would use fine tip trinium/trinium alloy darts accelerated at high velocity dipped in something even a symbiote cannot protect against which we have seen in the show. Perhaps a special chemical mixture designed to put stress on the heart, giving the ol'Kully a heart attack.