99 Problems (517)

[LoneStar1836]

For me I was totally surprised by the Lisa visit and not in a good way. Where on earth did that come from! There's been nothing to suggest that the boy and Lisa meant so much to Dean that it would trigger him to do that thing we now think he's going to do. So apart from the lovely acting from Jensen there...I didn't like it.

Maybe if he they had had the boy being Dean's son and Dean had admitted that he knew all along that he was his I would have bought it. But I felt that Dean was using this sudden 'love' revelation of his as an excuse for what he is about to do.

So I ended up feeling disappointed with him.

Heh. I thought that they might pull something and make the kid his...not that I'd care one way or the other but I'm kinda glad they didn't.

I didn't see it as an excuse though. I don't think she and Ben are his motivation for now wanting to say yes. I just think it was one last visit since he's not sure what's going to happen to him next. Sure he wants them to be protected and thinks he can work that deal because why wouldn't the angels agree to something so minor, but I didn't interpret them as being the reason for him now deciding to give in. I think Dean just wants this to be over.

[starg8fans]

I thought it made sense because we saw in Dream a Little Dream of Me that even months after he saw her, in Dean's mind, Lisa was his dream girl.

You know, I totally did not realize it was Lisa when I watched that ep! But I just checked the screencaps, and you're right of course.

can someone please refresh my memory about that episode

is the kid Dean's son or not?

Lisa told Dean that she'd had a blood test done, and that she was sure Ben wasn't his. If this was the truth, or if she didn't want Dean to know because she felt he was a bad influence (I think she was a little upset, since Dean had just taught the kid to kick a bully in the nuts) I can't tell. I tend to think he isn't, because in that case the 'mini-Dean' behavior of Ben would be way over the top. There are some inconsistencies, though. To determine parenthood you'd need a blood sample of the Dad. I don't think Lisa had one of Dean, and she claims the father was some random guy in a bar, with 'a leather jacket, some scars and no mailing address' - how would she get a sample from him?

Heh. I thought that they might pull something and make the kid his...not that I'd care one way or the other but I'm kinda glad they didn't.

I didn't see it as an excuse though. I don't think she and Ben are his motivation for now wanting to say yes. I just think it was one last visit since he's not sure what's going to happen to him next. Sure he wants them to be protected and thinks he can work that deal because why wouldn't the angels agree to something so minor, but I didn't interpret them as being the reason for him now deciding to give in. I think Dean just wants this to be over.

I agree. For me, it was more a way of putting things right before he ended it. It seems this time it's Dean's turn to make the wrong choice, and contrary to Sam he's not even sure he's doing the right thing. So making sure certain special people survive may be his way of justifying his decision. Do you figure he's gonna ask for Bobby's use of his legs back as one of his 'conditions'?

BTW, I'm usually pretty good with suspension of disbelief where this show is concerned, but could you please remind me why it's so bad to say 'yes' to Michael? If the archangel has his 'sword' and the devil hasn't been able to enter his proper vessel yet, wouldn't that help to make the fight quicker so fewer people die? And won't dragging out the Apocalypse cause just as many deaths and suffering as this battle would, as we've seen in The End? Is the reason still they don't want Paradise on Earth, as Dean pointed out to Cas in Lucifer Rising, that it would be sorta like 'Stepford Wives'?

[iolanda]

Lisa told Dean that she'd had a blood test done, and that she was sure Ben wasn't his. If this was the truth, or if she didn't want Dean to know because she felt he was a bad influence (I think she was a little upset, since Dean had just taught the kid to kick a bully in the nuts) I can't tell. I tend to think he isn't, because in that case the 'mini-Dean' behavior of Ben would be way over the top. There are some inconsistencies, though. To determine parenthood you'd need a blood sample of the Dad. I don't think Lisa had one of Dean, and she claims the father was some random guy in a bar, with 'a leather jacket, some scars and no mailing address' - how would she get a sample from him?

Isn't a tissue sample enough? Maybe Dean left a used tooth brush or something like that there.

BTW, I'm usually pretty good with suspension of disbelief where this show is concerned, but could you please remind me why it's so bad to say 'yes' to Michael? If the archangel has his 'sword' and the devil hasn't been able to enter his proper vessel yet, wouldn't that help to make the fight quicker so fewer people die? And won't dragging out the Apocalypse cause just as many deaths and suffering as this battle would, as we've seen in The End? Is the reason still they don't want Paradise on Earth, as Dean pointed out to Cas in Lucifer Rising, that it would be sorta like 'Stepford Wives'?

Saying "YES" would be one step further to the apocalyptic fight between Michael and Lucifer, which would destroy earth. I guess the main hope was to destroy Lucifer before that and without any big fight.
It would also mean that Dean gives in and gives up his free will to not be bossed around by fate and angels and predestination.
I guess we still cannot be sure if "The End" was really a glimpse into the future or a twisted Zachariah influenced version of future, despite what he said.

Still, over this season we had more and more reasons that giving in might not be the worst of ideas, since it wouldn't destroy Dean, would offer at least one way to have a fight at all and the certainty that the innocent victims of said fight will have it nice in the afterlife. So, the reasons against saying Yes are pretty crumbling, especially with Dean current state of mind.

[starg8fans]

Isn't a tissue sample enough? Maybe Dean left a used tooth brush or something like that there.

Well, she did say 'blood test', but that could have referred to Ben. And given that she had no idea she was pregnant when he left, I doubt she would have kept something of Dean's that had any DNA in it. Anyway, I expect - or at least hope - this riddle will be solved later this season.

Saying "YES" would be one step further to the apocalyptic fight between Michael and Lucifer, which would destroy earth. I guess the main hope was to destroy Lucifer before that and without any big fight.
It would also mean that Dean gives in and gives up his free will to not be bossed around by fate and angels and predestination.
I guess we still cannot be sure if "The End" was really a glimpse into the future or a twisted Zachariah influenced version of future, despite what he said.

Still, over this season we had more and more reasons that giving in might not be the worst of ideas, since it wouldn't destroy Dean, would offer at least one way to have a fight at all and the certainty that the innocent victims of said fight will have it nice in the afterlife. So, the reasons against saying Yes are pretty crumbling, especially with Dean current state of mind.

Good point, I forgot that The End was only one possible outcome. If that was the set future, there was no point for Zachariah to show Dean because he'd never say yes. So I'm not the only one who's wondering why everybody is so dead set against Dean giving in?

[Crichiel]

So I'm not the only one who's wondering why everybody is so dead set against Dean giving in?

I've been hoping and praying from the get-go that it would be Dean giving in! Not because after what they've shown us I think it's the best, most logical, or most humane solution--but because I think it will make a kick-a$$ story!

[SheppAddictedFangirl]

Good point, I forgot that The End was only one possible outcome. If that was the set future, there was no point for Zachariah to show Dean because he'd never say yes. So I'm not the only one who's wondering why everybody is so dead set against Dean giving in?

No, you´re not the only one. I´m more boggled about his resistance against help from somebody who actually could help. They go on and on about the good guys not giving a darn, but it´s actually Dean´s refusal to allow them to help that´s the problem. JMO.
They already know that they cannot fight this fight on their own.
But that´s probably just Dean´s love for his brother, and knowing that "he" would kill him once he says yes. But after he tossed the amulett into the trash and was now able to do what he shouldn´t have been able to, it must have hit Sam pretty hard to realize just what that means...

[LoneStar1836]

I agree. For me, it was more a way of putting things right before he ended it. It seems this time it's Dean's turn to make the wrong choice, and contrary to Sam he's not even sure he's doing the right thing. So making sure certain special people survive may be his way of justifying his decision. Do you figure he's gonna ask for Bobby's use of his legs back as one of his 'conditions'?

Probably. Don't see why he wouldn't.

BTW, I'm usually pretty good with suspension of disbelief where this show is concerned, but could you please remind me why it's so bad to say 'yes' to Michael? If the archangel has his 'sword' and the devil hasn't been able to enter his proper vessel yet, wouldn't that help to make the fight quicker so fewer people die? And won't dragging out the Apocalypse cause just as many deaths and suffering as this battle would, as we've seen in The End? Is the reason still they don't want Paradise on Earth, as Dean pointed out to Cas in Lucifer Rising, that it would be sorta like 'Stepford Wives'?

"It's better to die in the cause of freedom than to live in comfort as a slave." - Babylon 5, one of my other favorite shows.

And since this is a tv show I can easily support that philosophy. In the actual situation....who knows...though dying on Supernatural leads to an ideal heaven so that's not all bad as long as that's where I ended up.


I'm still kind of unclear as to what the actual endgame is if the angels win, but it seems that it's for their benefit and not the benefit of humans.

I've supported Dean's decision all this time because of the way the angels went about trying to get what they wanted. They are just as bad as Lucifer and the demons, imo. And neither side cares about what happens to the humans. So I say screw them both by not giving in.


I agree with Crichiel though and think it could make a kick-ass episode.

[Crichiel]

[QUOTE=LoneStar1836;11395254

I've supported Dean's decision all this time because of the way the angels went about trying to get what they wanted. They are just as bad as Lucifer and the demons, imo. And neither side cares about what happens to the humans. So I say screw them both by not giving in.


I agree with Crichiel though and think it could make a kick-ass episode. [/QUOTE]

Hee hee. This is me exactly! Glad to see I'm not the only one who can feel both ways. Like I said I DID want Dean to give in because it would make for good drama, but I loved the season-long arc of them fighting it and telling both heaven and hell 'screw you'!

[LtColCarter]

"You have reached the voice mail of I don't understand, why do I have to say my name ?"

This would make an awesome voice mail for anyone lol

I agree. I should change my voicemail message!

Thats odd, in my area the CW aired a baseball game instead of this.

Well, that stinks!

Hungover Cas was just plain hilarious, but a bit sad too. Poor thing just doesn't know how to cope and I guess he went the Dean way with drinking, an entire liquor store.

The ending, I did not see that coming. Lisa seemed just a throwaway character and then boom! Just...wait... I need to process this. I'm just puzzled, but I guess that's what Kripke does best, throw in tiny little things at the beginning that come back full force later on seemingly out the left field.

Drunk Cas was interesting! LOL I loved when he told Sam that his voice got on his nerves.

All in all a good episode! More gold from SPN

[LaEsmerelda]

I had never seen Supernatural before this episode, but I wasn't impressed. It was hard to understand who the main characters were. I also was surprised that MS took such a small role. He was very under utilized as an actor.

[iolanda]

I had never seen Supernatural before this episode, but I wasn't impressed. It was hard to understand who the main characters were. I also was surprised that MS took such a small role. He was very under utilized as an actor.

99 problems not really a very good episode to start Supernatural with. Its in the middle of a heavy story arc and one of the episodes leading to the big finale, so I guess its pretty difficult to understand what's going on and why. Michales role wasn't just that big, he was a supporting guest star. His wife was in a better episode (The End) but her role was even smaller.

[Crichiel]

I had never seen Supernatural before this episode, but I wasn't impressed. It was hard to understand who the main characters were. I also was surprised that MS took such a small role. He was very under utilized as an actor.

Sounds familiar. I had never seen SG-1 before season 9 but I wasn't impressed. It was hard to understand who the main characters were. I couldn't believe a brilliant actor like Ben Browder would take a role where his dramatic talents were so under utilized. And I felt this way for an entire season and a half. Then I watched the show's OTHER 8 seasons and realised I had jumped to a very wrong conclusion. (though I still think Ben Browder was wasted by only showing his more comedic side, the man's a great cryer! )

So when I first saw Supernatural (not starting with the first episode in this one either), even though I didn't like the episode I saw (too scary) and didn't understand it, I waited until I saw more of it and understood the overall story before I decided I did or didn't like it.

P.S. You want small parts? MS took a much smaller part on Eureka!